Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Raids are not legal grey areas  (Read 8272 times)

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2018, 04:46:36 AM »

Pirates are okay occasionally.  They are more annoying as gigantic 40+ ship fleets (breaking fleet cap again?!) that lurk behind distress calls. 

Is there any real reason to respond to distress calls? At best you get a bit indy Rep. I think it was 3 Rep for 10 fuel + whatever amount of fuel you burn getting there.
I do not get those very often.  More often, I get a derelict ship I can loot.  Sometimes, I get more crew.  One time, an officer joined.
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2794
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2018, 04:50:27 AM »

Pirates are okay occasionally.  They are more annoying as gigantic 40+ ship fleets (breaking fleet cap again?!) that lurk behind distress calls. 
Is there any real reason to respond to distress calls? At best you get a bit indy Rep. I think it was 3 Rep for 10 fuel + whatever amount of fuel you burn getting there.
I do not get those very often.  More often, I get a derelict ship I can loot.  Sometimes, I get more crew.  One time, an officer joined.
I guess extra officer is good enough.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2018, 05:01:31 AM »

What would be great for a distress call find is a two-skill administrator.  I have not found an administrator from a distress call.
Logged

Vind

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2018, 08:15:14 AM »

Player colonies is not recognized as separate sector power - they are part of independents group. At least in theory. So why any other powers must pay attention and obey any rules? You are nothing to them - just another independent world/worlds.
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2794
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2018, 08:22:47 AM »

Player colonies is not recognized as separate sector power - they are part of independents group. At least in theory. So why any other powers must pay attention and obey any rules? You are nothing to them - just another independent world/worlds.

You are, until you start having much more success at raiding/bombarding them, than they have against you. At which point a rational being should rethink their world picture.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12118
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2018, 08:53:12 AM »

An independent faction that may have a bigger colony and military than any single faction, and dominates the market in every commodity.  Some "nobody" the player is.
Logged

PCCL

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • still gunnyfreak
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2018, 10:54:35 AM »

Diplomacy and intelligent faction decision making are the solution to the annoyance  everyone is expressing...

Nobody should bother attacking the colony unless they have like a 75% chance of winning. They should just harass fleets instead. Would you mount a giant attack that you're probably going to lose? No. Why should the AI? Because fun? Well, obviously it isn't fun for anyone.

I agree.

Unfortunately, Alex seems to be stuck in the thought process of more-explosions == more fun (See suicidal pirates who will attack you right after you wipe out a fleet twice its size without breaking a sweat). While to an extent that is true, I feel like the game currently offers too much of a good thing in that regard.

Battles are good, but one can only wipe out the same pirate junker fleet so many times before it gets boring.
Logged
mmm.... tartiflette

Mordgier

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2018, 12:46:03 PM »

The rep hits yes I get that it sucks and it's annoying, but you can't expect to amass a bunch of goodies and not expect people to try to take it away. Its dog eat dog out there. It doesn't make sense though that it depends on whether you personally participate or not.

You can have a commission with a faction, positive standing, and they'll STILL stick try to raid your colonies.

It's a bit absurd.

It would make more sense if you dominating a market caused standing decay and THEN the raids started - but as is - it's terrible design.
Logged

Histidine

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4661
    • View Profile
    • GitHub profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2018, 04:21:06 PM »

The player's commissioning faction sending expeditions against the player is going away in 0.9.1, at least.
Logged

Mordgier

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2018, 07:41:08 PM »

The player's commissioning faction sending expeditions against the player is going away in 0.9.1, at least.

Yeah - this is a good change.

Still - getting raided by a faction who has an actual trade convoy in my system at the same time as their raiding fleet is profoundly jarring.

I don't mind the raids at all. They absolutely need to exist - but the lore needs work.

I'm totally cool with Hedgemony sending "mercenary" fleets who are not flying their flag to raid me while they are busy pretending to be my friend while wishing I were dead.

It's the "Were friends, but I'm going to stab you in the back and get angry with you if you defend yourself!" that I find irritating.

Treat the raiders as an invasion fleet either with an association but no penalties, or no association. Or let the raiding fleets grant me a "casus belli" for 30 days or something to retaliate via a raid without a standing loss.

Finally in the late game the AI just keeps sending their hopelessly outmatched fleets into the meatgrinder with no real purpose.
Logged

nathanebht

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2018, 12:16:12 AM »

Uh, when I first colonized you enter a faction name. My planets show that faction name which I entered. Didn't I create a new faction and I'm no longer independent?

If I get a commission (not done this in 0.9a) in the Hegemony faction and then colonize, wouldn't I have added a new planet to the Hegemony faction?
Logged

RedHellion

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2018, 12:32:58 AM »

Uh, when I first colonized you enter a faction name. My planets show that faction name which I entered. Didn't I create a new faction and I'm no longer independent?

If I get a commission (not done this in 0.9a) in the Hegemony faction and then colonize, wouldn't I have added a new planet to the Hegemony faction?

I think as soon as you colonize you always create your own independent faction - even if you're under commission with another major faction (haven't tried this in 0.9a yet either). Your colonies (and yourself) are always going to be treated as a separate faction, unless part of the next full release is adding full (or separate) diplomacy mechanics so that the player faction can actually be a separate entity or can choose to have their colonies and such be part of an existing faction.

I imagine it currently as if I personally would be under mercenary contract with the Hegemony, but my faction as a whole isn't and is still separate. Though this doesn't work great in practice since your (and your faction's) reputation are treated as the same thing, and your faction doesn't seem to have any separate faction-level diplomacy available at the moment (faction invasion fleets, your own faction raiding fleets, giving your faction orders, declaring war and making peace or other treaty negotiations, etc)
Logged

nomadic_leader

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2018, 01:36:08 AM »

Diplomacy and intelligent faction decision making are the solution to the annoyance  everyone is expressing...

Nobody should bother attacking the colony unless they have like a 75% chance of winning. They should just harass fleets instead. Would you mount a giant attack that you're probably going to lose? No. Why should the AI? Because fun? Well, obviously it isn't fun for anyone.

I agree.

Unfortunately, Alex seems to be stuck in the thought process of more-explosions == more fun (See suicidal pirates who will attack you right after you wipe out a fleet twice its size without breaking a sweat). While to an extent that is true, I feel like the game currently offers too much of a good thing in that regard.

Battles are good, but one can only wipe out the same pirate junker fleet so many times before it gets boring.

Yea, that's an issue.

In 0.8 I started to make a mod that would allow you to bribe pirate fleets that attack you, probably using faction file booleans and floats to determine which factions, how much, and under what circumstances they take bribes to let you go. But then I remembered I had real life stuff to do. amazing such a basic feature it isn't in there, given how much people complain about pirate attacks early on. Instead we have the convoluted solution of the tutorial stipend, I guess.

Many enjoy the repetitive, mindless (in a good way) combat megabattles because that's what the game was in the beginning and that's what they came for. But it isn't that anymore, and those mindless battles make no sense in the context of the rest of the game as it has evolved. But there's still this dogma that combat is the center and the best part of the game, the player must always be fighting, etc. To me, exploration seems the most polished and fun aspect of the game, while combat feels slow and awkward (is anything more boring than 3 early-game civilian-ish frigates fighting?); usually a foregone conclusion you have to sit that interrupts what you're doing in campaign.
Logged

TrashMan

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile
Re: Raids are not legal grey areas
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2018, 01:46:39 AM »


Suggestion: get rid of this garbage for factional attack fleets. Bombarding planets and destroying infrastructure is not a legal grey area, it is an act of war, regardless of whether you're doing it with your transponder on or off. In fact, out here in the real world, attacking a polity without a formal declaration of war is far more akin to a war crime than a "legal grey area". Taking a diplomatic hit of any size for foiling a faction's attempt to disrupt or destroy your colonies is downright insulting, and with these attacks usually consisting of multiple fleets, I usually rack up enough disfavor to end up well on the way to "hostile" by the time the dust settles. Sure I could then go do missions for them to raise my reputation back up, but A) why would I ever do favors for people who just tried to ruin me, and B) by the time I've recovered the lost rep, they're likely about to start planning another raid. Factions should either nut up and make a formal wardec after a point, or the player shouldn't be penalized at all for defending their colonies.

But friend, don't you know that that evil colony had weapons of mass destruction and was gassing childrenz?
Their leader is Literaly Hitler.
It's all over the news. They deserve a good bombing!
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]