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Author Topic: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties  (Read 1671 times)

nomadic_leader

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militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« on: November 25, 2018, 12:14:10 PM »

Maybe this is intended, but if so, the militarized subsystem hullmod is  misleadingly described. It says it gets rid of the penalties associated with the civilian hullmod. This is not true.

There are all those logistics hullmods like bigger cargo/fuel/crew bays. They say that civilian hulls suffer a 50% maintenance increase with them. You would think, given the militarized subsystems description, that if you have militarized subsystems installed, that you shouldn't suffer the 50% maintenance increase when you install one of these other hullmods (given that you already spent a lot of OP and doubled your crew requirements to cancel out your civilian hull). You, however, do.
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Alex

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 12:23:57 PM »

Thank you - made it remove the maintenance penalty and allow SO to be installed.

I wonder if that'd make MS + <capacity> the best "no brainer" set of logistics hullmods for civ ships, though. Might go back on this and change the description to "removes sensor penalties".

(Let me move it to Suggestions for any further thoughts on that.)
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Megas

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 12:52:29 PM »

I use it mostly to remove the burn penalty.  Important in early game.

Militarized Subsystems plus capacity maybe be no brainer on the capital ships.

Currently, I use Efficiency Overhaul and Surveying Equipment on my civilians.  Unless distracted by invasions or pather cells, I am very busy exploring the sector (and surveying for maybe better planets to colonize) while closing in on the Red Planet.  (I am almost the very doorstep of that planet, but I need to turn back to get more supplies and fuel.)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 12:55:22 PM by Megas »
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SCC

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2018, 01:11:01 PM »

Alex, I always complain about combat freighters and even I think that the difference between efficiency overhaul and militarization+expanded cargo holds/auxiliary fuel tanks is really not important. Plus, the latter eats up much more OP and doesn't decrease fuel consumption.
Goddamn Libre Calc

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 01:14:20 PM by SCC »
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Alex

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 01:13:57 PM »

*thumbs up*

Thank you for doing the math :)
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Wyvern

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 01:15:41 PM »

Making that change would make it mostly (well, aside from the increased crew requirement & fuel use) better than Efficiency Overhaul plus Expanded Cargo, yes.  But, depending on context, not strictly better than, say, efficiency overhaul + surveying equipment, or better than militarized subsystems + insulated engines, or... etc.  (My current fleet includes a single colossus with militarized subsystems and augmented drive field - I like running at burn 10.)

Early game, I used a few Hegemony Auxiliary Buffalos to avoid the supply tax from civilian hull + expanded cargo/fuel.  (Odd, though, that you can push a regular buffalo up to burn 11 via hull mods, but the Auxiliary version can't go past burn 10.)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 01:18:06 PM »

Yeah, I've got a TODO to look at the (A) ship burn levels; they sort of got left behind. So to speak.
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SCC

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 01:19:49 PM »

Yeah, I've got a TODO to look at the (A) ship burn levels; they sort of got left behind. So to speak.
Why don't they have militarized hullmod built-in already? I mean, that sort of is what (A)s are.

Alex

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 01:21:27 PM »

Yeah, I've got a TODO to look at the (A) ship burn levels; they sort of got left behind. So to speak.
Why don't they have militarized hullmod built-in already? I mean, that sort of is what (A)s are.

Bolded the reason :)

Plus, the (A) mod has some other benefits so I want to look at it more carefully than just slapping MS on everything. Which I might end up doing anyway, but still.
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Morgan Rue

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2018, 01:41:32 PM »

Yeah, I've got a TODO to look at the (A) ship burn levels; they sort of got left behind. So to speak.
Why don't they have militarized hullmod built-in already? I mean, that sort of is what (A)s are.

Bolded the reason :)

Plus, the (A) mod has some other benefits so I want to look at it more carefully than just slapping MS on everything. Which I might end up doing anyway, but still.
In my experience, the major benefits of (A) ships are the increased armor, OP and speed. Hound(A)s and Kite(A)s are generally quite effective, while other (A) ships are not very noteworthy. Hound(A)s are especially noteworthy as being the fastest ships in the game, which is useful in chase scenarios.
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Dauntless.

nomadic_leader

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 01:50:26 PM »

Thanks. if it could be of any help in making these determinations, I get the MilSubSys with the starting ships in the 'salvage start' or 'spacerstart' to sneak around the empty systems and loot stuff. I need better sensors and burn to avoid pirates and robots. (This could basically be a standalone game in itself, it's so much fun. I carefully shuttle stuff back to the abandoned terraforming station and never buy anything at an actual market)

I make a choice to totally avoid combat; so any mod that improves sensors and burn speed is obvious. so then getting the logistics hullmods also makes sense.

There is something a bit odd about installing a hullmod called 'militarized subsystems' in order to avoid combat and that a mod so named also improves a bunch of other noncombat hullmods.

But if you're a stealth, sneak, scavange player, you really like it.
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XazoTak

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Re: militarized subsystems doesn't remove civilian penalties
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2018, 02:02:24 PM »

Another inconsistency I've noticed is with the speed and dissipation mod I forget the name of.
It says it reduces peak performance by a factor of 0.33, which is extremely vague but it would probably be regarded as a 33% reduction given how bonuses and penalties normally work in this game.
It instead reduces peak performance to 33%.
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