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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Personal Contacts (08/13/20)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.8.4 [9/2/20]  (Read 175438 times)

Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #285 on: April 07, 2020, 04:14:46 PM »

Jack Combat Drones have crew, despite being listed as drones and despite the description referring to them as being entirely unmanned.

I know, it will be fixed whenever the next update happens, if you cant wait for that, go into ships.csv and change their crew amount to 0.
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #286 on: April 17, 2020, 04:23:49 AM »

not sure if its just me but i dont see a use for the alastair.

the emp mines are well a bit meh they rarely come into effect,its not fast, its poorly armoured for a capital, its undergunned, flux is terrible, op is a bit low and the siege cannon is very underwhelming.

again it could just be me but i find more use and more effectiveness from lyons and macnamara cruisers then the alastair
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #287 on: April 17, 2020, 04:43:28 AM »

I agree with the alastair being under powered.

When the mines hit, it is great on frigates and smaller prey, but does so little to cruisers and above ( plus RNG if the mines even hit)

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Igncom1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #288 on: April 17, 2020, 08:17:02 AM »

That can be a good thing though for thematics. The raiding society probably shouldn't be duking it out with hegemonic battleships or at least not for long.

So being better suited to raiding supply lines and the like with a capital built for that purpose almost seems fitting.
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #289 on: April 17, 2020, 02:05:07 PM »

That can be a good thing though for thematics. The raiding society probably shouldn't be duking it out with hegemonic battleships or at least not for long.

So being better suited to raiding supply lines and the like with a capital built for that purpose almost seems fitting.

But then whats the incentive to get the alastair instead of the macnamara king or lyons all of which can go toe to toe with their class equivalents and maybe even higher. The mines are an interesting gimic but not for a ship so flux dependant as alastair. The osmond can utilize this due to it being quite fast and placing those mines is both easier and more suited to the ship. The alastair has a siege cannon and those mines... well the mines will either do very little or nothing at all due to them being so easily destroyed by point defense, and the siege cannon shell gets destroyed 90% of the time and when it hits its just ok.

Macnamara for example is the quintessential gunship/flanker type. Get rapid firing weapons for shields and armor with some anti engine missiles and this ship will both outrun and outgun anything it comes across. With proper manuevering you can run laps around the bigger capitals and shred them to bits over time.

The lyons is a durable assault platform. the siege cannon albeit underwhelming feels more suited to the lyons. it also has magnetic plating, high armor and quite decent hull, plus 2 fighter slots. The lyons is both durable and dificult to attack adding long range weapons and whatever mods you can to further increase that and a couple lyons will tear anything apart before they even know what hit them.

The king is the berserker, add heavy hitting weapons with anti shield missiles (the emp sabot missiles for example) and it will absolutely decimat anything on the oposite end with or without using its omniloader skill.

Even the hawke has more uses since its an allrounder with free drones, want a missile ship sure, LR support sure, close range brawler, well there are better options but yes technically it can, hell you can make it full blown support with nav support and ecm support due to the generous OP the hawke gets.

With all these ships that have their uses and being as effective as they are theres little to no reason to get the alastair. There are simply more and better options.
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Igncom1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #290 on: April 18, 2020, 01:29:02 AM »

I haven't played a more recent version, so I can't speak to the specific balance that there is now.

But the Alastair is still the bigger gunboat, so while it might not be winning brawling matches with battleships, on a single ship it is the best the society have to offer.

A combined fleet of specialists can outmode it, yes, but never on a one to one basis as the Alastair is still better then any of the smaller ships.

I will admit that it's siege cannon is basically non-existent as in the older versions I never found it to hit it's mark at all. The emp mines however, while deal-able with PD, which is necessary as otherwise it would be hell, are still VERY powerful when they hit their mark.

It's a proper battle-cruiser in which it beats down on smaller ships like none of the other cruisers can, but it's certainly not a battleship. It's not really built to be a proper anti-capital ship craft, so you need to rely on asymmetrical tactics or carriers to fill that role.

But this is an opinion piece from an older version of the mod, so I could be way off in multiple ways.  ;D
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #291 on: April 18, 2020, 06:20:32 AM »

I haven't played a more recent version, so I can't speak to the specific balance that there is now.

But the Alastair is still the bigger gunboat, so while it might not be winning brawling matches with battleships, on a single ship it is the best the society have to offer.

A combined fleet of specialists can outmode it, yes, but never on a one to one basis as the Alastair is still better then any of the smaller ships.

I will admit that it's siege cannon is basically non-existent as in the older versions I never found it to hit it's mark at all. The emp mines however, while deal-able with PD, which is necessary as otherwise it would be hell, are still VERY powerful when they hit their mark.

It's a proper battle-cruiser in which it beats down on smaller ships like none of the other cruisers can, but it's certainly not a battleship. It's not really built to be a proper anti-capital ship craft, so you need to rely on asymmetrical tactics or carriers to fill that role.

But this is an opinion piece from an older version of the mod, so I could be way off in multiple ways.  ;D

yeah i mostly agree with you that its a bigger badder gunship type ship. But heres the thing while it might be able to beat other cruisers 1 on 1, the macnamara already does that since cruiser on cruiser combat is largely decided by volume of fire. Can the alastair field more guns - yes clearly, but most if not all cruisers will simply skirt back vent and come back in while the alastair is too far away. and at the end of the day theres very few to no chances of getting a 1 on 1 fight so i cant quite say that the alastair can even beat cruisers 1 on 1 and if the enemy fields battleships youll have to rely on outnumbering since you wont have the ships that can go toe to toe with a battleship.

i just dont see much reason to use the alastair over any other ship. Considering the cost, utility, maintenance i just dont see the alastair as being a worthy addition to a fleet over an additional cruiser.
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Igncom1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #292 on: April 18, 2020, 06:52:03 AM »

I haven't played a more recent version, so I can't speak to the specific balance that there is now.

But the Alastair is still the bigger gunboat, so while it might not be winning brawling matches with battleships, on a single ship it is the best the society have to offer.

A combined fleet of specialists can outmode it, yes, but never on a one to one basis as the Alastair is still better then any of the smaller ships.

I will admit that it's siege cannon is basically non-existent as in the older versions I never found it to hit it's mark at all. The emp mines however, while deal-able with PD, which is necessary as otherwise it would be hell, are still VERY powerful when they hit their mark.

It's a proper battle-cruiser in which it beats down on smaller ships like none of the other cruisers can, but it's certainly not a battleship. It's not really built to be a proper anti-capital ship craft, so you need to rely on asymmetrical tactics or carriers to fill that role.

But this is an opinion piece from an older version of the mod, so I could be way off in multiple ways.  ;D

yeah i mostly agree with you that its a bigger badder gunship type ship. But heres the thing while it might be able to beat other cruisers 1 on 1, the macnamara already does that since cruiser on cruiser combat is largely decided by volume of fire. Can the alastair field more guns - yes clearly, but most if not all cruisers will simply skirt back vent and come back in while the alastair is too far away. and at the end of the day theres very few to no chances of getting a 1 on 1 fight so i cant quite say that the alastair can even beat cruisers 1 on 1 and if the enemy fields battleships youll have to rely on outnumbering since you wont have the ships that can go toe to toe with a battleship.

i just dont see much reason to use the alastair over any other ship. Considering the cost, utility, maintenance i just dont see the alastair as being a worthy addition to a fleet over an additional cruiser.

Yeah that's more then fair, as is possibly a good thing in my opinion. Perhaps their capitals really aren't worth the cost in using them which does kinda match their modus operandi as being a group of raiders rather then a stand up state like the Persian league.

Not that I am against making them more powerful as their built in missile? siege gun is really forgettable when compared to other built in weapons like the onslaughts. When it should be the defining part of the ship alongside the emp mine thing.
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #293 on: April 18, 2020, 12:50:53 PM »

Honestly if the siege cannon wasnt a missile id at the very least consider it as it is right now it dies to the most basic of PD weapons
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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #294 on: April 18, 2020, 03:54:40 PM »

not sure if its just me but i dont see a use for the alastair.

It is just you to be honest, the Alastair is fine. With a proper loadout it can easily go toe to toe with something like a Conquest, just don't expect it to be able to out-face-punch something like an Onslaught, that would be silly if it could.

The trick is that it isn't a gunship. It is a heavy cruiser and a light carrier in a small, capital-sized hull with a disruptive subsystem to tie the package together, if you undersell any of these aspects of the ship in your loadout or how you fly it, you will find it lacking compared to its contemporaries.
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #295 on: April 19, 2020, 08:32:31 AM »

not sure if its just me but i dont see a use for the alastair.

It is just you to be honest, the Alastair is fine. With a proper loadout it can easily go toe to toe with something like a Conquest, just don't expect it to be able to out-face-punch something like an Onslaught, that would be silly if it could.

The trick is that it isn't a gunship. It is a heavy cruiser and a light carrier in a small, capital-sized hull with a disruptive subsystem to tie the package together, if you undersell any of these aspects of the ship in your loadout or how you fly it, you will find it lacking compared to its contemporaries.

it barely has enough flux cap and flux disipation to support itself let alone shield against anything, the siege cannon doesnt play a role in this ship, the mines get destroyed by even the most basic of PD weapons. As i wrote previously a 1 on 1 situation almost never happens, this is a fleet vs fleet combat game and the alastair even with the mines contributes little to nothing. It costs more to upkeep and deploy then a cruiser but is barely better then a macnamara or king in dps or lyons and hawke in support.

i dont expect it to be able to topple onslaughts or conquests if it can provide smth synergistic to the fleet. Yet it cant maintain combat vs battleships and it doesnt contribute much to the fleet.

having a heavy cruiser for the cost of a battleship with the flux stats of a cruiser is not a selling point, the mines whether you use them properly or not do not add much value to the purchase. Id rather buy a n osmond or two and get the same effect from the mines while having more manueverable ships.
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WesternFail

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #296 on: April 19, 2020, 08:52:36 AM »

not sure if its just me but i dont see a use for the alastair.

It is just you to be honest, the Alastair is fine. With a proper loadout it can easily go toe to toe with something like a Conquest, just don't expect it to be able to out-face-punch something like an Onslaught, that would be silly if it could.

The trick is that it isn't a gunship. It is a heavy cruiser and a light carrier in a small, capital-sized hull with a disruptive subsystem to tie the package together, if you undersell any of these aspects of the ship in your loadout or how you fly it, you will find it lacking compared to its contemporaries.

it barely has enough flux cap and flux disipation to support itself let alone shield against anything, the siege cannon doesnt play a role in this ship, the mines get destroyed by even the most basic of PD weapons. As i wrote previously a 1 on 1 situation almost never happens, this is a fleet vs fleet combat game and the alastair even with the mines contributes little to nothing. It costs more to upkeep and deploy then a cruiser but is barely better then a macnamara or king in dps or lyons and hawke in support.

i dont expect it to be able to topple onslaughts or conquests if it can provide smth synergistic to the fleet. Yet it cant maintain combat vs battleships and it doesnt contribute much to the fleet.

having a heavy cruiser for the cost of a battleship with the flux stats of a cruiser is not a selling point, the mines whether you use them properly or not do not add much value to the purchase. Id rather buy a n osmond or two and get the same effect from the mines while having more manueverable ships.

You are clearing building or using your Alastor in some weird way, in my experience it is a solid capital ship that is perfectly capable of pulling its own weight even against other capitals, and performs very well in a fleet setting. It brings plenty to the field while not being as expensive as other capital ships, it is just a solid ship.
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Kaykat

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #297 on: April 19, 2020, 11:50:48 PM »

If it's not good in your eyes and as you say, the Macnamara/King and Lyons/Hawke are better for the specific roles that the Alastair is trying to cover all at once, then just use those ships, no harm done. And if the Alastair is that important you can always go to the .csv files and change the flux cap and dis to your liking. Same with the weapons too; balance things the way you want them to be, it's your game.

You're getting really heated for something you can always change yourself with 0 repercussions and almost no time spent.
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #298 on: April 20, 2020, 03:42:39 AM »

If it's not good in your eyes and as you say, the Macnamara/King and Lyons/Hawke are better for the specific roles that the Alastair is trying to cover all at once, then just use those ships, no harm done. And if the Alastair is that important you can always go to the .csv files and change the flux cap and dis to your liking. Same with the weapons too; balance things the way you want them to be, it's your game.

You're getting really heated for something you can always change yourself with 0 repercussions and almost no time spent.

im not getting heated at all im just not getting any arguements why the alastair is in any sense a better adition then another cruiser. Thats all.
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Igncom1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Legacy of Arkgneisis 1.7.0 [2/27/20]
« Reply #299 on: April 20, 2020, 03:58:08 AM »

Well 2 specialised cruisers are better then one generalist capital. Until you hit the vanilla ship limit of 30, then you might want to consolidate your warships into fewer slots. One capital is better then one cruiser, but not if you have the space for two cruisers.

It's more of a preference problem as I see it.
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