Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Takion Kasukedo]

So, I had a discussion the other day on Discord about the Mora, and how Damper Field is a necessity, bad or not, due to the Mora's role in the game as a frontline carrier.

I hear that the Mora has had some adjustments done to it, and as a result is now frail compared to it's older self, so I've had an idea (or more rather, some of us have had an idea) and would like to share it, if it hasn't been shared already.

Damper Field should only stop minute or moderate amounts of damage. (around 1200 max in the same area, likely 0.4 seconds before being able to mitigate that amount of damage again, making a valid strike zone in the field itself. If not, 1200 alpha damage total for HE/Energy, full stop.)

If it reaches over that amount of damage-per-shot, then it won't block it, or the rest of the damage the weapon hitting the Damper Field Protected hull will have the rest of the weapon's damage applied. This gives strike weapons and overall highly damaging weapons a chance against Damper Field without having to be inherently super-powerful. This also means that Reapers/Hammers will still go through the Damper Field with a massive amount of damage, and are a valid strategy in killing Damper Field ships that excessively use Damper Field and are of Cruiser/Capital-Class ships. This also would mean the Mora wouldn't be so persistent against anything with a ton of HE capacity. It would have to be highly cautious against anything with sufficient damage against it.

Let me know what you think about this idea, and if the adjustments would be viable.

[Megas]

People thought 66% Damper Field on Mora made it too durable.  (I think enemy Heron kiting with HVD is a more annoying opponent than enemy Mora with 66% DP, at least Mora takes damage, Heron fast enough to avoid combat takes no damage.)

All I care about is making Damper Field useful for the frigates, especially Centurion, if they will not get a replacement system.  Efforts to tone down Damper Field for Mora has made it a junk system and suicide button for the frigates.

Personally, I would be fine if Damper Field did not disable weapons or venting, if it remains at 50%.  Damper Field does not disable Mora's fighters, after all.  Not to mention Accelerated Ammo Feeder and High Energy Focus do not disable anything or hurt the ships that have those systems.

[Death_Silence_66]

Interesting idea, this could be really cool if balanced properly.

[SCC]

Mora, or how Brawler and Centurion were nerfed into the ground because they had to share their fun gimmick with a fat carrier. I couldn't care less about Mora. It's annoying with damper field, but it can be defeated and it doesn't have the speed to escape from a bad situation with damper field "venting". On the other hand, Brawler and Centurion could tank two reapers to the face and still live to tell the tale - which isn't a win button, since one is out of action for a short while after this stunt, and the other can't bite anyway, but it can give the ship that little extra time that makes the difference between life and death. And flipping big boys off is fun as well. But it went from 4 times the HP, to 3 times, to just 2 times, and because of the way the armour works, it became way less effective than these numbers suggest.

[Vayra]

It'd be better (and simpler) to just have Damper Field's damage reduction % scale negatively with hull size class, wouldn't it? It could be explained as the difficulty/power required to produce a damper field scaling exponentially with the size of the field, making destroyer/cruiser/capital-sized fields uneconomical unless they operate at reduced efficiency relative to the frigate-scale one.

[Linnis]

Reversely it make much more sense for damper field to reduce all damage to X amount at most. Like sc2 immortal shield. This gives them more skill / situation based defense. Reduce max damage is also a good roundabout way to buff stuff like assault guns. Also damper field ships would still die the same speed when swarmed instead if just shurgging it off with how currently armor interacts with damper.

[intrinsic_parity]

Reversely it make much more sense for damper field to reduce all damage to X amount at most. Like sc2 immortal shield. This gives them more skill / situation based defense. Reduce max damage is also a good roundabout way to buff stuff like assault guns. Also damper field ships would still die the same speed when swarmed instead if just shurgging it off with how currently armor interacts with damper.

Actually, I think this would basically increase the effect of benefiting large ships over small ships. It basically allows ships to survive high damage shots, while having a minimal impact on low damage shots, but armor does tho opposite (reduces low damage shots and doesn't affect high damage shots too much). Ships with high armor (i.e. mora) are not scared of low damage shots because of armor, so this is big benefit, but ships with low armor (frigates) are still pretty scared of lower damage shots, so this doesn't benefit them that much. Any flat damage reduction is always going to disproportionately benefit ships with higher armor, just because of how the armor mechanic works.

An alternate suggestion to try and avoid this issue: limit the damage reduction to a flat amount. For instance reduce the damage by 75% or 200, whichever is less. This dramatically reduces damage of low damage/shot weapons (pulse laser 100 --> 25) which is a big benefit to frigates, but it has much less impact on high damage/shot weapons (hellbore 750-->550) meaning Mora is still killable with weapons like reaper/hellbore/harpoon etc. It would be essentially a much more dramatic version of the effect of armor, which dispraportionately benefits frigates. 200 might be a bit low, but the point remains.

Having damper field % scale with ship size would probably have a similar effect though, and that is maybe more justifiable with lore and stuff.

[Cyan Leader]

I would just entirely remove the system from the game to be honest. I don't find it fun to use it nor to fight against it.

[Embolism]

IMO 50% for Mora is too weak, and I don't see any reason it needed to be nerfed from 3 to 2 charges either. For Frigates it may as well be a curl up and die button.

I'd make Damper Field scale to ship size (say 75/75/66/66, numbers for destroyers and capitals are moot ATM) and change it to be toggled with a maximum duration that replenishes when off.

And please give baseline Brawler AMF back, Midline does NOT need an entire three frigates dedicated to being (ineffectual) damage soakers, but it DOES need an offensive frigate. Not having PD coverage ain't a good reason for forcing a subpar defensive system, lots of new ships don't have full PD coverage (Drover, Legion); and forcing compositions (say a PD Centurion/Monitor with your Brawler gunships) should be a good thing.

[Thaago]

I'm not much of a fan of damper field tbh. Its a good concept and fits thematically with the Mora, but in practice it mainly serves to slow down gameplay and reduce strategic complexity.

I would love for the Brawler to get AMF back and the Mora to get something else. Fast missile racks might be too powerful/just make it into an ultra condor.

[Megas]

Damper Field would have been useful on Brawler if it had a good chance to block EMP from Salamanders.  Since it does not, it is worthless.

Centurion was the original owner of Damper Field.  In 0.9, Centurion will be able to point four turrets ahead, and hopefully not stay as a worse Monitor imitation.  All it needs now is a useful system, and it will finally be the midline assault frigate alongside low-tech's Lasher and high-tech's Wolf.  Damper Field was useful on Centurion when it was 75%.  But at 50%, it really is "a curl up and die button."

Damper Field on Mora may be annoying, but at least it is different than Heron.

lots of new ships don't have full PD coverage (Drover, Legion)

They are carriers.  Plus, Drover can get 360 shields.  If they need more PD, they could recall fighters, at least the playership can.

Things like Brawler have no PD at all, which hurts.  When stuff like Lasher and Wolf can use some PD and get the killing job done, why use Brawler when I have better options?

and forcing compositions (say a PD Centurion/Monitor with your Brawler gunships) should be a good thing.

I will just use ships that do not need escorts.  Why use two specialists that need babysitting when I can do the same or more, and likely with less micromanagement, with two general-purpose ships?  The latter are the baseline assault ships, and they are generally effective.

I would love for the Brawler to get AMF back and the Mora to get something else. Fast missile racks might be too powerful/just make it into an ultra condor.

Was pre-0.8 Venture an ultra Condor?  I don't think so.  It was only overpowered when both Salamanders and the system were unlimited.

I would not want Fast Missile Racks on Mora because it is a dedicated carrier, not a gunship or missileship.  (I was annoyed with Fast Missile Racks on Venture when it is good, would have preferred High Energy Focus or something else instead.)  Missile-focused ships are ill-suited for endurance fights, and since Mora is a carrier, it should put nearly all of its OP into fighters, not weapons or missiles.  (I only mount two 2 OP Reapers and a few other small ballistics on Mora.  Rest of OP goes to fighters and related hullmods.)  A generalist or fighter-focused system on Mora would be most useful.

I would just entirely remove the system from the game to be honest. I don't find it fun to use it nor to fight against it.

I do not totally disagree with this.  The only time I would use it is after my ship is near max flux (or would take a hit that would overload shields) and it is too dangerous to vent.  At 75% it was useful, and it was a bit fun watching the Centurion shrug off ordnance like a tough guy.  Now at 50%, the frigates take too much damage, and it is better to simply vent and hope your ship does not die.

[TaLaR]

I wouldn't say Damper doesn't bring anything unique to Mora - DF makes Mora one of most survivable ships against sudden death by phase frigates/hyperion.
It fits role too - Mora needs something significant  to not just be an inferior Heron placeholder. Tankiness can work as decent replacement for speed in some fights. At least with fighter + DF synergy.

AAF Brawler was decent half-Hammerhead, DF is just pointless. Slow ships need serious firepower to counter fàster ones. Otherwise they can't stack flux on approach/inflict damage before enemy retreats. Having no firepower (like Hammerhead) or at least conditonal mobility (like Enforcer) makes it utterly safe as opponent. Brawler doesn't make a good SO platform either (not compared to Lasher anyway).

[SafariJohn]

I enjoyed piloting the Centurion when it was new. Now, I don't even bother with it.

[mehgamer]

My take on damper field has always been that % reduction is too binary, and it'd be more interesting as a mechanic if it was a +armor effect instead.

Basically, damper field gives just enough oomph to reduce the hurt when the ship is pristine, and when the ship is heavily stripped it can use it as a last-ditch attempt to stop itself from getting chewed by LMGs.  50% damage reduction on the mora, for instance, means that it would double its already capital-grade armor.  Giving it a simple +400 armor, however, would make relatively little difference against dedicated armor cracking weapons like hammers, reapers, or hellbores, but it'd make the ship a LOT more capable of shrugging off inconveniently timed fighter or frigate strikes while its armor is already low.  Unless they use harpoons.

it's an idea, and I'd be happy to let people tear it apart.

[Linnis]

That would be great idea. Much better.