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Author Topic: Salvaging Mechanics Update  (Read 35666 times)

Alex

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2018, 12:10:40 PM »

Alex, regarding storms, one Issue I have is often I get caught skirting the edge during sustained burn and get the full effect, could we get more varying intensities of storm and/or decrease the storms effects further away from the center of the storm?

I'd just as soon not mess with that. I mean, if you try to skirt too close and don't leave enough error margin, you get what you get, you know?

also, if we're talking space weather, what about more visible storm fronts?
(yes that's the ribbon from star trek generations)

Hmm - my feeling is that they're already plenty visible. I do seem to recall improving their visibility at some point since the last release, though.

If you decide to go with the random ship being struck/buffeted/whatever in a storm, what about an individual commanders skill to avoid such strikes/turbulence?

I don't think this a primary or important enough mechanic to start adding specific skill interactions for the sake of. That said, the Solar Shielding hullmod reduces the effect of storms, along with coronas.


Does it mean you only get 1 ship hit at a time max or you're getting every ship rolling the chance of getting hit in every storm strike check?

One ship at a time.
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Sutopia

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2018, 05:49:17 PM »

The strike does damage to CR, armor, and hull, and larger fleets attract stronger strikes. Overall, this means that:


A quick question, if you just battled in storm and got some ship almost dead (with no armor and little hull left), is there a chance storm strike killing it?
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Alex

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2018, 05:53:22 PM »

Storm strikes can't actually destroy ships; that seemed a bit too mean, even for me :)
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Deshara

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2018, 08:25:25 PM »

Alex has mentioned that there won't be a skill revamp until later. We MIGHT get a level cap boost but this is not confirmed as far as I know

I did increase the level cap to 50 for the time being, btw.


A ship-ability I can use when caught in a hyperspace storm would  be nice. Maybe something that outright dispels the storm. Or wait, a ship that can capture the storm and use its energy to create antimatter-fuel! That would change the gameplay from avoiding to chasing storms! Awesome.

Hah! That's... almost awesome enough to want to add as a one-off in some way. Like, "spend X days in a row in a storm to finish some kind of storm-analysis mission", say. Then you'd have to find a large enough moving storm to be able to do it.

Speaking of storms, I'd changed how they work. Instead of being a constant CR drain for all ships, there's a chance to hit a single ship with a "storm strike" every couple of seconds. The strike does damage to CR, armor, and hull, and larger fleets attract stronger strikes. Overall, this means that:

1) Supplies/day consumption doesn't shoot up nearly as much, since it's not affecting all of your fleet
2) The overall supply consumption is considerably less, due to the specific numbers involved
3) It occasionally creates some tactical considerations, i.e. a ship you usually depend on is temporarily crippled, without being ruinously expensive

Also removed the sensor profile penalty when caught in one, just to clean it up a bit.

ooh! If the storm strike were a straight % of max CR lost, rather than a flat redux, it'd punish high-tech, late-game fleets more than rugged/cheap early game fleets
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Noomsy

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2018, 09:33:29 AM »

Anything that encourages salvage as a method to build up your fleet is great.

I've been routinely playing with huge multipliers on ship cost (Like 5x).

And it feels very much like you have to build or fleet up piecemeal. It actually gives you a reason to use those 3-4 Dmod wolfs and such. The one issue is if you don't put points into D mod reducing skills it takes forever to actually buy a decent ship.

Still it makes the game alot more interesting in my opinion. In vanilla if I can find a wolf or tempest and scrap together 15k-30k...it's pretty much easy street from there. (Just pick your battles as you build up)
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2018, 09:44:47 AM »

Anything that encourages salvage as a method to build up your fleet is great.

I've been routinely playing with huge multipliers on ship cost (Like 5x).

And it feels very much like you have to build or fleet up piecemeal. It actually gives you a reason to use those 3-4 Dmod wolfs and such. The one issue is if you don't put points into D mod reducing skills it takes forever to actually buy a decent ship.

Still it makes the game alot more interesting in my opinion. In vanilla if I can find a wolf or tempest and scrap together 15k-30k...it's pretty much easy street from there. (Just pick your battles as you build up)
Does that also make restore costs even more expensive?
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Megas

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2018, 10:04:15 AM »

I play with clunkers all the time, but I will be so glad why I can play with undamaged ships without reloading the game every time I take a casualty because they are too rare and/or expensive.  Same thing with weapons that are not commonly found at open market or pirates' black market.
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Noomsy

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2018, 03:15:45 PM »

Quote
Does that also make restore costs even more expensive?

Not that I can tell, since those take supplies.

Alex also wisely separated cost for non trade good, weapons, mods, LPCs, so you can jack the cost of those up as well, practically forcing the user to advance via salvage and using damaged ships.

There is an independent variable for ship value used in selling to shipyards as well, so you could up that if you want to make the player focus more on the weapons, mods, etc.

In settings.json:
   # ship weapons and anything else that's not in the economy
   "nonEconItemBuyPriceMult":3.2, # added 2 for all but ship purchase, those are 4
   "nonEconItemSellPriceMult":.25,
   "shipBuyPriceMult":5.2,
   "shipSellPriceMult":0.4,
   "hullWithDModsSellPriceMult":0.2,

Totally changes the feel of the game....
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Retry

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2018, 05:22:31 PM »

Quote
Does that also make restore costs even more expensive?

Not that I can tell, since those take supplies.
Restoring a ship to spec at a dockyard by removing its D-Mods uses money, not supplies.
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errorgance

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2018, 06:26:38 PM »

Alex, had a shower thought this morning,  ship construction will consume ship hulls/parts/whatever right? Can these parts be salvaged from wrecks?

If so, then could wreckage fields near planets give temporary bonus to ship component supplies/production due to ongoing salvage/scrapping efforts? Could your planet spawn salvage fleets to take care of farther debris fields?

Speaking of which, could we produce our own ship graveyards for similar but longer lasting bonuses? You probably will have to feed it with unwanted ships to keep the bonuses, or have it auto purchase wrecks from the verse like any junkyard would.

Oh and one random thought, if I had two eagle cruisers, with non matching D mods, could I splice the two together to make one whole ship with a bunch of left over scrap and ship components?
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Alex

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2018, 06:39:41 PM »

ooh! If the storm strike were a straight % of max CR lost, rather than a flat redux, it'd punish high-tech, late-game fleets more than rugged/cheap early game fleets

It's sort of like that; at least, high-tech ships tend to lose more CR since their CR/deployment is higher, and earyl game fleets don't suffer as much because the strike is based on the fleet's deployment cost.


Alex, had a shower thought this morning,  ship construction will consume ship hulls/parts/whatever right? Can these parts be salvaged from wrecks?

It totally doesn't. It just costs credits and requires Heavy Industry; the details are left to your subordinates to work out. "Credits" are the general, high-level, "I'm not getting personally involved with this, you work it out" resource.

Oh and one random thought, if I had two eagle cruisers, with non matching D mods, could I splice the two together to make one whole ship with a bunch of left over scrap and ship components?

Haha, my guess is the actual more likely outcome would be one ship with all of the d-mods from both, and a few new ones thrown in :)

But in any case, that seems... pretty random. I mean, there's a ton of stuff you *could* add to the game. right? The question is, why is a particular thing worth the effort and the increase in complexity, both player-facing and dev-wise? A suggestion without that aspect of it talked about explicitly is kind of tough to evaluate, since I don't know what you've got in mind.
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Gothars

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2018, 12:45:39 PM »

Hah! That's... almost awesome enough to want to add as a one-off in some way. Like, "spend X days in a row in a storm to finish some kind of storm-analysis mission", say. Then you'd have to find a large enough moving storm to be able to do it.
:thumbsup.jpeg:


Speaking of storms, I'd changed how they work. Instead of being a constant CR drain for all ships, there's a chance to hit a single ship with a "storm strike" every couple of seconds. The strike does damage to CR, armor, and hull, and larger fleets attract stronger strikes. Overall, this means that:

1) Supplies/day consumption doesn't shoot up nearly as much, since it's not affecting all of your fleet
2) The overall supply consumption is considerably less, due to the specific numbers involved
3) It occasionally creates some tactical considerations, i.e. a ship you usually depend on is temporarily crippled, without being ruinously expensive

Also removed the sensor profile penalty when caught in one, just to clean it up a bit.


You know, if you're changing things in hyperspace, how about a different kind of "storm" that helps you travel faster and cheaper? Say, you could traverse it at 25 speed and without fuel costs.

I think it would just be great to have something positive to look out for during long travels, and since the hyperspace tidal wave idea didn't come through, this could be an easy replacement (/placeholder?).



Alex, had a shower thought this morning,  ship construction will consume ship hulls/parts/whatever right? Can these parts be salvaged from wrecks?

It totally doesn't. It just costs credits and requires Heavy Industry; the details are left to your subordinates to work out. "Credits" are the general, high-level, "I'm not getting personally involved with this, you work it out" resource.

Buuut Heavy Industry will increase demand of metals, which can be found during salvaging, right? Don't know if you can inject them in significant amounts into your industry, though. Waaah, I can't wait for this to not be so damn theoretical anymore ;D
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Alex

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2018, 03:20:16 PM »

You know, if you're changing things in hyperspace, how about a different kind of "storm" that helps you travel faster and cheaper? Say, you could traverse it at 25 speed and without fuel costs.

I think it would just be great to have something positive to look out for during long travels, and since the hyperspace tidal wave idea didn't come through, this could be an easy replacement (/placeholder?).

Hmm - makes me almost want to do this to existing storms. Wonder if it'd be weird to have a slowdown in normal deep hyper terrain and a speedup in storms, though. But, yeah, that could be quite fun. Storm-riding! Especially if you could then put on a bunch of solar shielding to minimize the impact.

Buuut Heavy Industry will increase demand of metals, which can be found during salvaging, right? Don't know if you can inject them in significant amounts into your industry, though. Waaah, I can't wait for this to not be so damn theoretical anymore ;D

Right, that's true! I guess I'm just assuming that supply lines of this nature wouldn't be too difficult to establish, but I'm not quite sure about that.
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Bribe Guntails

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2018, 04:03:18 PM »

You know, if you're changing things in hyperspace, how about a different kind of "storm" that helps you travel faster and cheaper? Say, you could traverse it at 25 speed and without fuel costs.

I think it would just be great to have something positive to look out for during long travels, and since the hyperspace tidal wave idea didn't come through, this could be an easy replacement (/placeholder?).

Hmm - makes me almost want to do this to existing storms. Wonder if it'd be weird to have a slowdown in normal deep hyper terrain and a speedup in storms, though. But, yeah, that could be quite fun. Storm-riding! Especially if you could then put on a bunch of solar shielding to minimize the impact.

Buuut Heavy Industry will increase demand of metals, which can be found during salvaging, right? Don't know if you can inject them in significant amounts into your industry, though. Waaah, I can't wait for this to not be so damn theoretical anymore ;D

Right, that's true! I guess I'm just assuming that supply lines of this nature wouldn't be too difficult to establish, but I'm not quite sure about that.

This makes me think of Shallow/Thin Hyperspace: the opposite of Deep Hyperspace. Of course many other fleets would prefer it, and potential pirates would set up ambushes along it?

As for Resource ReclamationTM maybe you could establish a Ship Graveyard/Breaking Facility at a Colony? It would convert ship hulls and derelicts into resources for the Colony, but would need to be supplied by debris fields in and around the system, and also any ships you feed into it. It would be a way to supplement ship production if you're in a lot of fighting, and it parallels the Industry aptitude a bit.
Though it does sound like it'll conflict with Scuttling; it'd give you the choice of scuttling for meager gains, or hold onto ships until you get to the graveyard?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 04:09:54 PM by Bribe Guntails »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Salvaging Mechanics Update
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2018, 05:01:47 PM »

This could really make solar shielding a viable hullmod. Currently you kinda have to use it on all or most of your ships, and the benefits are just too small to sacrifice that many ordinance points. This could add a lot of utility to the hullmod. I also think having some positive interaction in hyperspace where you are trying to achieve a positive outcome rather than trying to avoid a negative outcome is much more interesting and rewarding.
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