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Author Topic: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab  (Read 5447 times)

TaLaR

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4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« on: August 31, 2018, 09:47:38 PM »

Does anyone use them?

Scarab is quite OP starved with just using 5 frontal slots, so leaving rear ones empty is my default.
 
Only fighters have any real chance of getting behind a Scarab (unless badly outnumbered). But even if you fill it with nothing put PD, Scarab can at best keep a few fighters at bay - at cost of completely giving up offensive potential. Just not worth it. Especially considering that Scarab is yet another ship heavily leaning into player-only territory (it's all about ship system, which AI can't properly use).

Can we maybe trade 4 for just 2, but with more reasonable coverage (close to 270, except the front 90)? I don't see a reasonable way to fill side-slots even in pd-only configuration (that is without compromising PD role itself).
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Embolism

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 10:54:33 PM »

There's a few ships that seem to have "trap" weapon slots that aren't worth putting anything in. The Scarab's side turrets are probably one of the worse examples.

The Aurora's aft-starboard turret used to be one of these until it became a Synergy slot. It's tempting to do the same for the Scarab, but that seems like a bit of a slippery slope.

But yes I agree, the side turrets don't need to exist. I can't think of any situation where I'd want to put things in there.

On a slightly related note, there seems to be a trend towards newer ships (and reworks of older ships, e.g. carriers) being OP starved. That's not a bad thing in itself except older ships generally aren't designed like this and can comfortably fill all their weapon slots, which makes it a bit discrepant.
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Shrugger

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 12:04:27 AM »

IMHO it's fine to have more slots than you have OP for. It gives you more customization options without giving the ship more of a numerical advantage.
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Embolism

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 12:19:02 AM »

That's fine as long as there situations where you'd want to put weapons in those extra slots. In the case of the Scarab there really isn't (the side slots can't concentrate firepower and don't have enough arc to be meaningful PD), which turns them from customisation options to newbie traps.
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Deshara

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 12:50:44 AM »

IMHO it's fine to have more slots than you have OP for. It gives you more customization options without giving the ship more of a numerical advantage.

makes me feel like I'm playing the game wrong to have empty slots.
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Quote from: Deshara
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TJJ

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 04:28:27 AM »

IMHO it's fine to have more slots than you have OP for. It gives you more customization options without giving the ship more of a numerical advantage.

makes me feel like I'm playing the game wrong to have empty slots.

Indeed; the combat mechanics force you play one way, the hardpoint configurations suggest another.
Definitely some degree of contradiction going on.
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Retry

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 06:21:30 AM »

In vanilla, no.  The cheapest vanilla PD weapon, the mining laser, doesn't track well enough for side and rear turrets, and the 2nd cheapest one (PD Laser) costs 4 OP, which is a lot.

In modded though, I like to stick in SWP's mini-blasters & reliant HMGs (1 OP each) on small energy & ballistic slots, just to fill all the hardpoints.  Lets it take pot shots at passing fighters from any arc.  Its efficiency isn't wonderful, but you get what you pay for.
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Megas

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 06:31:18 AM »

In pre-0.8, +30% OP meant I could have four PD lasers instead of two, but now I do not bother and use that 0.72 starter configuration because it is effective enough.

The biggest thing that discourages me from using Scarab after I find one is lack of Shield Conversion: Front.  I do not want to use it without 360 shields.

Scarab is not the only ship that cannot use all of their mounts well.  Plenty of ships need to leave some mounts empty to be optimal, especially without Loadout Design 3.  For example, I often leave medium energy slots empty on Conquest.  For carriers, I leave them unarmed because fighters and their appropriate hullmods eat all of their OP.
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Megas

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 07:37:40 AM »

The Aurora's aft-starboard turret used to be one of these until it became a Synergy slot. It's tempting to do the same for the Scarab, but that seems like a bit of a slippery slope.
I am so annoyed by the Aurora's side synergy slot.  I used to put Burst PD there, but now I cannot.  I need to pay extra for Heavy Burst Laser if I want PD there.  If I want to focus on two heavy blaster loadout, I want burst PDs, and paying extra is annoying.  That said, I cannot deny that synergy allows Aurora to play missileboat.  (I much rather have it regain its large missile mount, especially now that it cannot support three heavy blasters like it used to, with weaker skills.)
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SCC

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 03:14:38 PM »

At the moment Scarab feels like a square testbed for the ability itself, with many slots being there just in case here's a fringe use for them that could be caught in the testing. I never really thought about it, since getting a scarab is a hassle and outfitting it later is annoying as well.

FooF

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 05:36:37 PM »

The Aurora's aft-starboard turret used to be one of these until it became a Synergy slot. It's tempting to do the same for the Scarab, but that seems like a bit of a slippery slope.
I am so annoyed by the Aurora's side synergy slot.  I used to put Burst PD there, but now I cannot.  I need to pay extra for Heavy Burst Laser if I want PD there.  If I want to focus on two heavy blaster loadout, I want burst PDs, and paying extra is annoying.  That said, I cannot deny that synergy allows Aurora to play missileboat.  (I much rather have it regain its large missile mount, especially now that it cannot support three heavy blasters like it used to, with weaker skills.)


Not to derail but the Aurora's side synergy mount really is a liability. On a non-SO loudout, I often put a Medium Sabot Rack there to soften up targets but anything other than a guided missile is wasted back there. PD isn't ok but it feels like an OP trap. I remember modding it so that it was a Large Energy back there that faced forward a bit and that really made the Aurora a ridiculous powerhouse. Of course, this was back before Plasma Jets and it still had High Energy Focus...

Anyway, I don't know what to do with that mount but it's a hate/hate relationship. I hate that it's so awkwardly placed and has no role in forward firepower and yet I hate not using it because it's a versatile slot.
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Wyvern

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Re: 4 rear weapons slots on Scarab
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2018, 05:52:46 PM »

Scarab: Yeah, the side turrets are useless.  Rear turrets I do usually put some cheap PD - even basic PD lasers can do a number on pursuing missiles when you take advantage of the ship's mobility.  ...But I can see leaving them empty, too.

Aurora: I, also, used to put burst PD in that side medium slot.  These days I leave it empty, though; I don't missile-boat my Auroras, and while that does leave a hole in the ship's point defense, the Aurora is mobile enough that that doesn't matter.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.