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Author Topic: Matching skills with NPC fleet commander... takes dedication.  (Read 311 times)
Megas
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« on: August 12, 2018, 03:42:10 PM »

One of my recurring complaints in the 0.8 era is it is hard for max level player to have as many skills as a max level officer.  After thinking about this more and checking some things, I can see why...

Max level player has 42 skill points.  Officers have 21 skill points, enough for seven max skills.  If we want to match officers at their game, then we really have 33 skill points because we spend nine points for max Combat, Leadership, and Technology aptitudes for unfettered access to skills like officers have.  If we want to spend as many points as officers, that is 21 out of 33 points gone, which leaves 12 left.

Enemy fleet commanders can have points in the following skills:  Fleet Logistics, Coordinated Maneuvers, Fighter Doctrine, and Electronic Warfare.  I do not know how many points they can spend, but if they can have all four maxed, that is 12 points.  We do not need all of those skills maxed.  Eight points will be enough for us.  Fleet Logistics will be at 3, to match max CR of the enemy and prevent them from winning by endurance, not to mention the other perks are great.  Fighter Doctrine should be at 3, so that fighters are durable enough later in the game, and Converted Hangar at 2 is the easiest way to get that hullmod.  Coordinated Maneuvers at 1 is enough to make Nav objectives obsolete, and Electronic Warfare at 1 is enough to defend against ECM from enemy fleet commander (or make Sensor objectives obsolete if enemy does not have ECM).  Now we have four skill points left.

Loadout Design 3 is one of the best perks for everyone.  Three more points spent, one point left.

What to do with that last point?  Well, if you want more combat power, better to spend that last point in Officer Management to get two more guys with 21 skill points each.

For this max level character, we spent all of our skill points, all but four points into skills NPCs use.  No more for Navigation, anything in Industry, or more in Officer Management for more guys and skills.  If we want any of that stuff, we need to take points away from our share of pilot-only skills.  Actually, it is probably a good idea to take two points away from one of your pilot only skills and max Officer Management.  By making our commander weaker than max level officer in personal combat, he has four more max level officers to beat things up for him.  Probably a great bargain.  If we want exploration stuff or fleetwide buffs in Industry, we cut even more out of our personal skill budget to get that stuff.

Bottom line, if we spend points like NPCs, we have very few points left for anything else.
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Linnis
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 06:25:14 PM »

I always end up editing the max level higher.

Personally I wouldn't mind if there was some sort of seperation between combat and other skills.

Either have players gain point a point in combat and other at the same time. Or maybe players don't get combat skills, instead the assigned captain's stats are considered in combat, this way players can play both carrier and other ships equally effectively in the same play through.
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Midnight Kitsune
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 12:26:36 AM »

I too agree that we need separate the combat and fleet skills from each other. Or somehow allow the player to have access to combat skills of other officers. Otherwise the player can screw themselves by taking combat focused skills. This would not be so bad if we could respec. However we can't and taking the wrong skills can make or break a build
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Megas
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 05:11:39 AM »

Being able to respec pilot-only skills would be nice, since pilot would not be locked into a small subset of ships if he takes niche skills.  For example, if I take all three pilot-only carrier skills, then I am probably locked into Astral or other carrier by endgame, and there is not much variety of carriers in the game.  If I want to pilot Onslaught, Paragon, or any other warship instead, I have three useless carrier skills I cannot get rid of.  That is another reason why more Officer Management is a smart idea; train specialists then fire them for replacements if you tire of them.
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Shrugger
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 05:21:15 AM »

But then you'll want to re-spec every time you switch ships to whatever is ideal for that ship.

IMO skills don't fit the game at all.
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Megas
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 06:59:03 AM »

There is a wider variety of warships and one carrier (Legion) doubles as a powerful warship, so building to be good primarily with warships is not a problem since it applies to many ships.  Dedicated combat carriers that are good can be counted on one hand.

Plus, there are generalist pilot-only skills like Combat Endurance and various defensive skills that (nearly) any ship can benefit from.  The highly specialized skills are the three pilot-only carrier skills and possibly Missile Specialization, since not every ship can or wants to use missiles.  Aside, Missile Specialization (and its fighter counterpart, Strike Command) are lame skills, the perk at 3 is good, but the perks before that are junk, or at least better reserved for officers because the bonuses are frivolous for their cost.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 07:03:20 AM by Megas » Logged
Seth
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 02:07:50 PM »

Technically you can just increase levelcap (that's what I did in some of my runs) to be more like a jack-of-all-trades and not be locked in single ship class. It's band aid, but it works. Like I really do enjoy piloting carriers, thus usually start investing for it early on, but later I might get bored and want some brawler, non-combat type or anything else. It just helps to have one campaign instead of 3-5 with different skill sets in case you're looking for something fresh.
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Megas
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 03:09:09 PM »

Until Alex does another skills tweak, raising level cap from 40 to 50 seems like a quick and dirty fix.  XP gain does not slow down much until level 50.  I reach level 40 while still taking out mid-level fleets with recovered pirate cruisers.  I probably can earn few more levels worth of XP before I finally get a capital and a fleet strong enough to take on endgame fleets.

Actually, with colony skills coming and no other skill changes, raising the cap to 50 just so player will not be a combat gimp seems like a good idea.

I did not realize that enemy fleets may have Officer Management.  They need to if their endgame fleet has more than five officers (one fleet commander plus four henchmen).  Seems like player might match NPC fleets if he gives up Loadout Design 3 (no way given how powerful that one perk is to everyone).  Otherwise, player needs to give up combat or fleet power he should have if he wants anything else.
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Nbirdsallxp123
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 04:01:20 PM »

Any thoughts on a feature enabling the player to keep more officers and only be able to field X amount? Then they could be kitted out like your ships!
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