Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Terrible Game  (Read 11826 times)

Ryan390

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Terrible Game
« on: July 22, 2018, 11:50:31 AM »

I can't believe how difficult the game is and how punishing the game is for every decision a player can make.
It could actually be really fun but no, the player is constantly stripped of all ships, due to clicking on the wrong piece of space or going down a wrong jump hole.

Missions are all pretty much the same, there doesn't seem to be any real aim after completing the tutorial mission.. Or Story, even after this many years in development..


 * There seems hardly any point in amassing a fleet and trying to fight pirates or anything, it always results in a loss of earnings, non profitable. *
Bounty hunting seems the only legit reason to even fight in this game, or to defend yourself, which is all the time..

Supplies are required way too much for everything, and are way too expensive to replace, doesn't make the game fun at all, it's just an outright chore to play..
So disappointing, I preferred the game in its early alpha, why have you had to make it so complicated and difficult to play?


This post from another fella also puts it quite well:

Quote
The ratio of cost/reward is horrificly unbalanced.  I slowly but surely get drained of resources to the point where I'm stuck in a random sector somewhere, out of fuel, and unable to do anything.  As you progress the AI ships and fleets get bigger and more powerful, requiring you to match or outmatch what you would normally encounter.  This means more resources, fuel, etc to keep playing the game.  Eventually those resources run dry.  There's no way to "farm" anything in this game, as every attempt you make after the first attempt yields less resources at a heavier resource drain to do said farming.

I've been waiting for an update that alleviates this.  I've had SS sitting on my desktop, staring me in the face, saying "hey, play me".  But I put about 20 hours into this game the first month I picked it up, and haven't played it since.  As it stands, if this game were on steam, I would give it a negative review.  I feel like I threw $20 away on a game that is so punishingly hard, the mechanics make it so that you are beaten down to the point of defeat just as you are getting your feet off the ground.  The push to constantly explore new sectors, that get farther and farther away, at the increased cost of fuel and resources, only to find nothing in those sectors, really makes it so that you can never beat this game.  It is literally impossible to beat this game.  And I don't want the hardcore super experienced players say "just keep playing it".  I'm telling you, as a newbie to this game, I find it unplayable, and I have put it down months ago and haven't come back to it.


Of course, fan boy hate is incoming, surely other people must experience this?





 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 11:53:45 AM by Ryan390 »
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2124
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2018, 12:25:20 PM »

I'm pretty sure you can check that thread which is thematically very similar and that has tips for Starsector that would probably help you as well... I mean, more than just the first post.

BillyRueben

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2018, 12:41:54 PM »

I'm pretty sure you can check that thread which is thematically very similar and that has tips for Starsector that would probably help you as well... I mean, more than just the first post.

Awwww, does that mean we can't turn this in to a three page thread defending the game and/or telling the OP to git gud? Bummer.
Logged

Piemanlives

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • I've Got This, I think...
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 12:47:30 PM »

I'm pretty sure you can check that thread which is thematically very similar and that has tips for Starsector that would probably help you as well... I mean, more than just the first post.

Awwww, does that mean we can't turn this in to a three page thread defending the game and/or telling the OP to git gud? Bummer.
I mean... we definitely could. But is anyone really willing to put in the effort to do so?
Logged
This is called me throwing my missile swarm at you, and by swarm I mean massacre, and by missiles... I actually just mean missiles, there's actually not much to it really.

Ryan390

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2018, 01:09:24 PM »

Well that would just be a cop-out wouldn't it..

If a customer walks into a restaurant, sits down and pays for a meal which he find unsatisfactory, what would you do as the restaurant owner?
Throw the food in his face or offer a reasonable explanation?
I don't think offering a 'git good' explanation would be sufficient for a customer who's just paid for a service / item. 

Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength. 
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.

I'm sure that are other ways, but there's a small number of actual successful ways to make money it seems.
The real currency in the game appears to be supplies though, they are required for far too many actions and extremely costly to replace in bulk.

The fear of actually making any meaningful decision in iron man mode seems to just be punished by losing supplies at a rate of knots..
Once your supplies are gone you dig into your wallet to replace them, rinse / repeat.



Logged

Piemanlives

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
  • I've Got This, I think...
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 01:29:47 PM »

To be more serious though the difficulty curve of .8.X is... well it isn't really good at all. After you complete the tutorial (If you did it at all) there really isn't any guiding hand to, at the very least, explain what the hell you should be doing at any given moment. And while .9 gives purpose to exploration and fleet building .8... doesn't. Not one bit. And if .9 has what you're looking for in this game you will have to wait because none of those mechanics are in the game right now.

Though to actually address your points:
Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength.
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.
Combat: This is an odd one, combat really doesn't have much purpose unless you're deliberately looking for something to kill. If you want combat to have more purpose I would recommend looking at the Nexerelin mod which is about conquering the sector from the various factions vanilla or otherwise. But that really relies on you being interested in using mods in the first place.

Trade: As it is trade really isn't a good way to make money in the .8 dev cycle. Sector economy is just... well... It's kinda borked and while it's possible to make money it really takes more effort than it should. Trade missions nominally alleviate this but trade as you go doesn't really do much profit wise. .9 has another economy overhaul so hopefully that gets better as time goes on.

Scavenge/Exploration: Definitely more profitable if you can make it to the outer portions of the sector and back.

Station Building/Industry: Doesn't exist in the .8 dev cycle if you're looking for it wait for .9. The industry skill tree as it exists in .8 is there to aid exploration and derelict scavenging.

Now some would definitely disagree but .8 really is just a platform for the Nexerelin mod, despite the addition of exploration mechanics and what you can find out in the outer portions of the sector .8 really doesn't have much to offer from a campaign perspective, especially when compared to earlier versions of the game. It's definitely feels more like a jumping off point for later game mechanics (and the coming mechanics are looking really really good) but because of that what mechanics that were introduced .8 feel incomplete with little purpose to them.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 01:31:19 PM by Piemanlives »
Logged
This is called me throwing my missile swarm at you, and by swarm I mean massacre, and by missiles... I actually just mean missiles, there's actually not much to it really.

Twogs

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2018, 01:31:35 PM »

Well that would just be a cop-out wouldn't it..

If a customer walks into a restaurant, sits down and pays for a meal which he find unsatisfactory, what would you do as the restaurant owner?
Throw the food in his face or offer a reasonable explanation?
I don't think offering a 'git good' explanation would be sufficient for a customer who's just paid for a service / item. 

Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength. 
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.

I'm sure that are other ways, but there's a small number of actual successful ways to make money it seems.
The real currency in the game appears to be supplies though, they are required for far too many actions and extremely costly to replace in bulk.

The fear of actually making any meaningful decision in iron man mode seems to just be punished by losing supplies at a rate of knots..
Once your supplies are gone you dig into your wallet to replace them, rinse / repeat.

I guess your main mistake was getting to big too soon (otherwise supplies are rarely a problem).
Really try to keep it small, max destroyers, fast fleet. Can defeat anything thats faster, is faster than anything that could defeat it.
Played til far into the end game with just a small destroyer fleet. Try this maybe.
Logged

CaptainWinky

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 01:37:23 PM »

Back to the actual game at hand, there's no doubt a very narrow path to financial success.

Combat: Bounty hunting (only viable reason to fight willingly) - Also inaccessible as a feature until sufficient fleet strength. 
Trade: Buy low, sell high (multiple ways to achieve this) - Decent feature and can be fun!
Scavenge: Good way to make money at the start, can be risky and requires lots of fuel and supplies.
Station Building / Industry: ?? Never experienced this as I didn't stomach the game long enough.

I'm sure that are other ways, but there's a small number of actual successful ways to make money it seems.
The real currency in the game appears to be supplies though, they are required for far too many actions and extremely costly to replace in bulk.

The fear of actually making any meaningful decision in iron man mode seems to just be punished by losing supplies at a rate of knots..
Once your supplies are gone you dig into your wallet to replace them, rinse / repeat.

Getting your fleet large enough to handle pirate patrols is the toughest part of the early game IMO.  Until then, you can tag along with bigger friendly fleets and help them with fights--like help Hegemony fleets in Corvus so that you can take advantage of the first systemwide bounty offered by Jangala at the start of the game.  You get less post-battle salvage immediately after battles, but you can stay and salvage the debris field afterward.

Scavenging and surveying in remote systems does require some initial investment (freighters to haul the loot, tankers to haul enough fuel for all your ships to get there and back, then the cost of the fuel and supplies) but if you can get several missions in the same direction it becomes very profitable as you only pay expenses for one trip but get multiple mission payouts.

Trading is currently not a great way to make money unless you count food shortages.  You're not missing anything with outpost building BTW, that is not implemented in 0.8 but will be in the upcoming 0.9 release.  I believe 0.9 will improve on trading as well.

I don't think many people currently use ironman mode.  I definitely don't, because while it can be fun to deal with the consequences of an unexpected defeat, it can also be very frustrating to (for instance) enter hyperspace and bump into a giant hostile fleet that happens to be entering that jump point but decides to stop and wreck you.

BTW for supplies and fuel: Chicomoztoc for supplies, Sindria for fuel.  Low-stability markets may sell these commodities for lower prices.  Also don't be afraid to use the black market to avoid huge tariffs, especially if the market is owned by a faction you don't deal with often.  If you don't have anything outright illegal they can't do much to you other than give you a rep hit.  Get in, get the cheap goods, get out and leave the spacecops eating your exhaust.  Going to a smaller low-stability market, snapping up their guaranteed 50 supplies and 50 fuel in the black market, then leaving scot-free because they don't have patrols to deal with you is great in the early game.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 04:43:33 PM by CaptainWinky »
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4853
  • Quantum Mechanic
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2018, 01:42:36 PM »

Well there is a reason there is an easy mode and that you can save/load as often as you like.

To give you the flip side: as a veteran who likes the combat tree, I make a reasonable profit from non-bounty, non-commission fights - if I am spending more supplies in the fight than I get as loot (without any loot boosting skills) then I screwed up (which does happen - not pretending to be all powerful here). If I have a bounty or a commission I can grow the fleet rapidly. However, I do still lose the occasional ship or have to retreat my fleet from an ambush. Without those hard bits, it would be completely boring for me.

Starter tips:
1) Do the tutorials.
2) Do a few missions to get a feel for combat. Tip: you can refit these ships with whatever weapons you like, so play around!
3) Start the game with the tutorial. This works you up to small sized fleet rather than a single ship. Follow the directions and go to Corvus! There is a system wide bounty there at the start of the game that will give you a ready source of income.
4) Join battles. If you see a big battle between pirates and a faction, join in. This is a good way to experience larger fights, is almost completely risk free, and give you both income and reputation.
5) Look for exploration missions at planets. If you can get 2 or 3 of them in the same quadrant, you can make a very large profit in addition to whatever goodies (research stations, high class planet surveys, etc) you find out there. (Buy a Dram for fuel.)


[Edit] I do run ironman mode, and I do sometimes get my ass kicked. It makes things more... spicy. (I also don't really go for rare ships/hoarding so I don't mind very much.)

[Double Edit] I forgot the most important combat tip!! Learn when to lower your shield. First step is to lower the shield to incoming kinetic damage (of small caliber) to win the flux war. Second step is much harder: when to lower the shield and take significant damage to overload/maim/kill a priority target.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 01:55:13 PM by Thaago »
Logged

stormbringer951

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2018, 02:47:53 PM »

The new player experience in Starsector is a work in progress (campaign tutorial only got added in 0.8). The game's difficulty is front-loaded, certain mechanics that appear low key (logistics and sensor mechanics) can make the game dramatically harder for the new player, and there isn't a difficulty-gated safe shallow area of the sandbox for new players to get their feet wet in.

The game should probably teach players at least the stuff in HELMUT's tutorial, which is up to date and offers a collection of very helpful guidelines to make the beginning of the game and learning the ropes in the campaign smoother.

Starter tips:

To add to Thaago's list, the newbie mistakes I notice most often from people posting on the Discord:

- Weak grasp on how combat mechanics function and which parts of them are extremely important. I'm surprised how many new players don't know the difference between soft and hard flux, which may be one of the most important distinctions in the game, along with what kinetic/HE/energy damage types mean.
- Mismanagement of logistics will creep up on you. It's very easy to grow your fleet too fast and bankrupt yourself.
- Not understanding the crucial role of transponder and terrain in determining when enemies can see you. Keeping transponder switched off when jumping into hyperspace or while in hyperspace alone increases survivability by a ton.
- Not knowing what to do after starting the game. The game should hint to players that salvaging/exploration is the easiest and least risky, bounty hunting is the most lucrative, trading is slow and not very profitable to just buy high/sell low when you factor in fuel cost, you have to look for shortages/crises or delivery missions.
Logged
Starsector Unofficial Discord server.
Weapons Group Controls mod - deselect all weapon groups, hold-down hold-fire mode, toggle alternating/linked fire

Morbo513

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2018, 03:19:25 PM »

* There seems hardly any point in amassing a fleet and trying to fight pirates or anything, it always results in a loss of earnings, non profitable. *
Bounty hunting seems the only legit reason to even fight in this game, or to defend yourself, which is all the time..
You know I didn't think I'd find myself agreeing with someone who's basically ***-talking one of my favourite games. But try Nexerelin, it really expands the scope of what you can do, and makes the universe much more dynamic.

That said there's a lot of people coming out the woodwork criticising the game for its difficulty. Adapt and overcome. Savescum while you learn the mechanics and best routes of profitability. Spec into Industry and use scrap-ball fleets where losses hurt nowhere near as bad, and are more easily replenished.
Logged

Igncom1

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1086
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2018, 06:12:27 PM »

Early game is hard but that's why I always go for the salvaging? and field repair skills in industry. As well as playing on easy.

For all the free extra/saved loot that makes fighting pirates almost always profitable and simply lets me carry on my way doing whatever it is that I want. I'd highly reccormend it if all you wanna do is brawl!

Ultimately however if you want to return the product and get a refund I'd contact support and ask there.
Of course the forum of a game is going to be filled with people who like a game. It's why we are all here.
Logged
Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Psycho Society

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 12:03:03 AM »

uh..... lol. This game isn't hard at all.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 12:18:23 AM »

Tbh I think it's more of a thing that pretty much every game nowadays holds your hand and tells you what do to constantly. I'm not calling anyone dumb but it's a thing I noticed over the years. Even in other games people don't notice the most obvious thing just because the game doesn't explicitly say that to them. As others have already said this is frustrating in this game because you get punished hard before you learn the mechanics properly. Only thing that's terrible is playing on ironman the first time.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Goumindong

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
    • View Profile
Re: Terrible Game
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 12:27:58 AM »

If you’re having trouble finding fights where you can make money (without bounties) consider deploying fewer ships and making sure you don’t run out of CR. That way you minimize your cost. Player piloted ships are most efficient at this though by spending combat skills there you will be less powerful against latetame fleets.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3