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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5e - More balance tweaks  (Read 103659 times)

Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #300 on: August 16, 2019, 03:37:35 PM »

Sylphon systems are fairly close to the core of the system
...They are?  Odd, I see them being way up to the north-west, about as far out as any faction mod gets, and completely on the opposite side of the inhabited sector from the Hegemony's systems.

Perhaps you're playing with Nexerelin random mode enabled?
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Mr. Nobody

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #301 on: August 16, 2019, 03:39:29 PM »

Sylphon systems are fairly close to the core of the system
...They are?  Odd, I see them being way up to the north-west, about as far out as any faction mod gets, and completely on the opposite side of the inhabited sector from the Hegemony's systems.

Perhaps you're playing with Nexerelin random mode enabled?

I forgot i was using random core worlds, issue resolved i suppose
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Ekuryua

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #302 on: August 16, 2019, 03:39:41 PM »

I absolutely adore this mod, it has become my favorite mod and will definitely be included in every playthrough from now on. A whole-hearted thank you for making it. I find myself wanting to fly every ship I come across and that is truly amazing to me.

Has anyone found a way to make use of the Finis Astra in combat? My attempts have left me at a loss because it seems like I have to rely on the AI more than I necessarily can if I were to use it the way I want to. I was hoping I could use it against stations at least but that didn't go well, either. On a related note- does the AI know how to use its weapon? I haven't tested too much yet (planning to after posting) but it didn't do so in the simulator at all so I've been operating on the assumption that it doesn't. Same question stands for the Frelia, though it might be using it in all the battles and I simply haven't noticed but I get the feeling it hasn't. I was surprised when I saw the Seresvella start charging its system and wipe 3 frigates as well as an enemy fighter wave the first time I stopped piloting it in favor of the Equilibrium I had just gotten, though. That was nice to see.

I'm curious if others have had the same goal and discovered a fleet comp that works for locking enemies down while keeping themselves (allies) out of its firing line or if maybe it's less a matter of fleet comp and more one of getting skilled at predicting where the AI will fly and just sitting in the right spot in siege mode.

Personally I haven't found much use for the Finis Astra either.  It's a little too vulnerable and doesn't really seem worth the effort even if you do micromanage it and use it in the optimal scenario (i.e. against orbital stations).  By weapon do you mean the abilities?  I haven't ever noticed my Frelias ever shying away from using their weapons or special ability.  Most of the time they seem to rush in guns blazing even with steady captains.
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bowman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #303 on: August 16, 2019, 11:33:57 PM »

Yes, I was referring to the Frelia's ship system (the drone spawning thing). I have since confirmed the AI does make use of it, I just hadn't noticed before with all the remnants I've been fighting (too many drones flying all over the place).

Yeah, I've had to mostly shelve my efforts to weaponize the Finis Astra on the battlefield, though I'm actually about to make use of its logistical/campaign value in, shall we say, liberating Hybrasil from the Imperium and into my faction's hands, since Tri-Tach lost control of it a couple cycles ago). I figure later on I might dig around in the files and modify the Finis Astra's system CD and/or damage type (I'm thinking of making it kinetic so it can overload shields and assist the fleet that way; Headcanon is it's a supersized and burst-modified graviton beam which maybe helps explain how it gets through planetary atmospheres)

Worth noting I'd only be messing with the files for my own end, I have 0 intention of doing anything else: regarding making a mod-mod or otherwise.


It seems as though Autofit doesn't like Catharsis wings? I have 10 of them (8 at colony storage, 2 in inventory) and it refuses to place them in the hangar bays when the variant I made requires it (and displays them in the variant list).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:27:02 AM by bowman »
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #304 on: August 17, 2019, 03:54:06 AM »

There's definitely some plans to make the Finis Astra less useless, but not sure yet how to go about it. The AI technically knows how to use the system and weapon, but is also set to be very careful about it since you really wouldn't want that thing shooting you in the back.
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #305 on: August 17, 2019, 05:34:46 AM »

Alright, figured now was as good as any time to do the Finis Astra rework. Should be more usable now

Changelog:
Quote
0.9.5d
Changes:
- Reworked the Finis Astra and Götterdämmerung
   - System now only halves turnrate to allow aiming while anchored
   - Weapon damage type changed to kinetic, beam damage reduced slightly
   - Now spawn shield-piercing EMP-arcs on final blast
   - Reduced bonus damage based on target hp to 25%
   - Halved chargeup duration of the weapon
   - Brought bombardment and ground support levels of the ship up to II Titan standards
   - Added doubled CR degradation after ppt runs out
   - Each shot of the Götterdämmerung now reduces remaining ppt by 30 seconds
   - Increased Finis Astra ppt to 540 to compensate

Balancing:
- Benison
   - Lowered damage from 300 to 120
   - Lowered refire delay to 0.5s
   
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My mods: Sylphon RnD - Tahlan Shipworks - Trailer Moments
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Starareo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #306 on: August 17, 2019, 11:59:51 AM »

I installed the update onto an existing save and I see the Finis Astra changes such as 25% damage, EMP arcs, PPT 30s degradation, but the Gotterdammerung is still an energy weapon. Might need to play a fresh save maybe. Also, I missed a few patches, but damn the Equilibrium's nullspace skip got nerfed.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:20:30 PM by Starareo »
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bowman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #307 on: August 17, 2019, 02:43:18 PM »

Just playing with those changes in the simulator I already like it so much more. Hitting hull isn't as ruinous as it was before but that's fine because it can overload and EMP an entire ship now making it a viable support vessel. The PPT reduction is fitting and I actually like that functionality quite a lot (as compared to direct CR reduction, for example). However, I'd like to mention I find the Imperium Titan's 5000 fuel bombardment rather strong, I think it would be more fitting to be 1000 and perhaps have a better ground support effect (as it is more of a surgical weapon, being a laser, than the II's "nuke this entire side of the planet" missile) but that might just be me. Even if it's not changed from now on I'd be fine: this version is fun to use and seems combat viable, even if niche.  :D

Edit: @Starareo It is still an Energy mount weapon, but the damage type should now be Kinetic- as it is in my save after updating. If the damage type is still energy you may want to try redownloading the mod or something, since it has applied to my own save properly I can only assume something went awry for yours.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 02:46:47 PM by bowman »
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #308 on: August 17, 2019, 02:54:18 PM »

@Starareo:
The weapon is an energy weapon, but it deals kinetic damage now, rather than energy damage. The damage type is what changed, not the weapon type.

@bowman
I've mentioned my thoughts on the 5k fuel reduction being a bit high to DR myself, but he seems to think it's fine so I matched his values, especially considering the titan is probably still more potent in combat. I might consider the reduced bombing bonus in exchange for greater ground support bonus, though. Not a bad idea, actually.
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Starareo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #309 on: August 17, 2019, 06:24:30 PM »

@Nia Tahl thanks for the clarification.

On another note, does anyone have a recommendation for best Sylphon drones/fighters?
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Ass-Haggis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #310 on: August 17, 2019, 07:07:00 PM »

Gotta say, using the reworked Finis Astra is a whole heck of a lot more satisfying now! Oh gosh it is such a guilty pleasure with how expensive to maintain it is but how inherently satisfying it is just bugzapping a hardened target! As always you're doing amazeballs friender!
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Semondice

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #311 on: August 20, 2019, 02:01:09 PM »

Found a bug, every time I try to open a market of the sylophon the game crashes. It happens in every station and planet, and cannot accede to fleet market either.

error:null
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #312 on: August 20, 2019, 02:39:27 PM »

Found a bug, every time I try to open a market of the sylophon the game crashes. It happens in every station and planet, and cannot accede to fleet market either.

error:null
Edit: Verified that this does not happen to me.

Some relevant questions:
Did you update the mod version without starting a new save?  (Or, alternatively, does the issue persist if you start a new game?)
Did you delete the mod folder before unpacking the new version?  Unpacking in place will frequently result in your mod folder having a mish-mash of different versions, which, unsurprisingly, causes problems.
What other mods are you running?  It's good practice to provide this information when you make a bug report, as there are some mods that are known to have compatibility problems.
What's the full error stack trace?  You should be able to see this in the log file that Starsector generates; "error:null" on its own is basically useless for debugging.

@Nia Tahl thanks for the clarification.

On another note, does anyone have a recommendation for best Sylphon drones/fighters?
Depends on what you're going for, but in general all of them are at least not bad.

For starters, you can't really go wrong with just piling on Ravana wings; they'll eat lightly armored ships alive, and are still reasonably effective against cruisers and above.  They remain a significant step up from the vanilla Lux-class drone.
Add in one wing of Sivva for armor-breaching, and you can send them against even capital ships with good effect.
Or add in a wing of that EMP-beam fighter whose name I forget; you won't kill stuff quite as fast, but the lock-down is useful.
Or add in a Nalka wing for some extra kinetic damage; the Nalka isn't very survivable without a swarm of other fighters to cover it, but can be useful when it has that cover.

The Sadri is just a solid torpedo bomber; accurate enough to see use against frigates, and highly survivable.

The Myrigo is a weird combo of missile swarm and PD; they're not as good against heavy armor as a torpedo bomber, but are better at getting past enemy PD, and, when held in reserve, do pretty well as supplemental point defense for your own ship, with occasional missile volleys to help fend off flanking frigates or encroaching enemy fighters.  I tend to put them on ships like the Odyssey that have supplemental fighter bays rather than being dedicated carriers.

Oh, and I guess there's the Vetra with its kinetic-damage missiles?  I don't recall being impressed, but at least in theory they should pair up decently with the Sadri.
Same goes for the support-type drones; the outcast kinetic damage drones are not impressive, the PD drones are probably decent but I set up my ships to have sufficient PD without fighter support so I don't bother, and the arphage drone is situational but actually pretty good if you can get it in range of enemy targets.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 11:11:46 PM by Wyvern »
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Starareo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #313 on: August 21, 2019, 02:35:31 PM »

Is there any way to disable the Sylph Core ships chance of rebelling?
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5d - Making the Finis Astra less garbage edition
« Reply #314 on: August 21, 2019, 03:48:35 PM »

no
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