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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5f  (Read 119784 times)

auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5b - Balancing with the nerfminigun
« Reply #285 on: August 08, 2019, 04:57:45 AM »

nerf? really? what ships was not good, they had bad little shields (frontal not 360) and it seems like you want the ships to be as scrap as SHY. This is my personal opinion, of course it does not coincide with the opinion of lovers of frigate and corvettes, who find it difficult to kill battleships on their rat-boats, and therefore they smell in every topic that they need to be nerfed.

ummm my dude the dread eagle can solo an entire fleet and most other ships have shields on top of amazing abilities whether its armor up or shifting. Pound for pound they were (i havent tried the latest version) the best in each class. insanely good flux cap, dissipation and mobility theyre just too good if you dont think so run a sylphon only fleet youll destroy everything no problem
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auhamas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5b - Balancing with the nerfminigun
« Reply #286 on: August 08, 2019, 05:05:06 AM »

Know what, here's a pretty wide-ranging balance pass that should lower the overall powerlevel of the faction to see how it plays out. If this works fine, then maybe the faction was too strong, if it ends up leaving them too weak, I can bring them back up as needed.

Full changes:

Quote
0.9.5b
Balancing:
- Lowered energy weapon flux discount from nullspace conduits to 10% and 5% for projectile and beam weapons respectively
- Ships:
   - Equilibrium base shield efficiency lowered from 0.7 to 0.8
   - Equilibrium dissipation lowered from 1200 to 1000
   - Replekia shield efficiency lowered from 0.9 to 1.0
   - Frelia shield efficiency lowered from 0.7 to 0.9
   - Silverhead shield efficiency lowered from 0.7 to 0.8
   - Furika top speed lowered from 140 to 110
   - Celika top speed lowered from 140 to 110
   - Ascordia top speed lowered from 110 to 100
   - Dread Eagle flux capacity lowered from 18000 to 16000
   - Valestri dissipation lowered from 650 to 600
   - Sylvetra shield efficiency lowered from 0.8 to 1.0
   - Synastry dissipation lowered from 700 to 600
   - Frelia dissipation lowered from 900 to 700
- Weapons:
   - Lowered Adloquium per-shot damage and increased rate of fire to reduce burst potential
   - Increased Embrace flux/shot from 45 to 50
   - Increased Radiant Dawn range from 850 to 1000
   - Lowered Purgatory range from 800 to 750
   - Lowered Adloquium range from 800 to 700
   - Increased Benison flux/shot from 300 to 330
   - Increased Zealot flux/shot from 20 to 24
   - Increased Zealot emp/shot from 10 to 20
   - Reduced Raphiel EMP damage from 200 to 100

its not that they are overpowered its just they do too much for a ship like dread eagle for example has blink yeah thats awesome easy to flank with it, but it also has shields and very high fluxcap meaning almost always if you play it smart you can blink in, destroy taget with shields on and blink out, vent, repeat. now not every ship is like this ofcourse but other ships suffer from problems that they have waaaaaay too much survivability/damage pottential with the seresvalla for instance if your running a synergy fleet then youll destroy most annoying frigates maybe even a destroyer within the first few seconds of the engagement, the equilibrium i have no idea how to even fight that thing the only way is to flank but even then it has built in fighters and a bunch of guns everywhere so fighting it is rough to say the least.

i havent really found a problem with the weapons personally but maybe its because i outfit my ships for sustained fire rather than big damage so i cant comment on that ill try the mod with the new setting maybe with the slight nerf ill feel better using them more and playing better and using their powers better
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Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5b - Balancing with the nerfminigun
« Reply #287 on: August 08, 2019, 06:37:05 AM »

Sometimes I feel like just deleting the whole with this neverending balancing nightmare. Apparently the faction is always overpowered and underpowered at the same time and frankly it's starting to not be worth the effort to try balancing this crap.

It obviously doesn't help that most people here have no clue what they are talking about.

I should probably just remove the Dread Eagle as it will always be too op in player hands or completely useless in AI hands.

Anyway, update is save compatible. If the faction is still too strong, I'll just keep nerfing it till it's garbage tier.
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joppe_k

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5b - Balancing with the nerfminigun
« Reply #288 on: August 08, 2019, 08:15:24 AM »

Well, if it is both overpowered and underpowered at the same time, that means that you're not too far off base.  :)

Tbh. though, there'll always be as many opinions as there are ppl. The most important thing is that you are happy with your own faction. That you think it's fun to play with them. Perfect game balance is a bit like world peace imo. Realistically, we are never going to reach the goal, but it's still a goal worth striving towards. Besides, it's often the "small imperfections" that gives a faction its flavor and makes them fun. If perfect balance was achieved, I'd wager the faction would end up feeling rather bland.

I, for one, greatly appreciate the work you put in to try to make the faction fun and to make it mesh well with the rest of the game. Keep up the good work!
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HereticKannon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5b - Balancing with the nerfminigun
« Reply #289 on: August 08, 2019, 10:28:59 AM »

Alright, first post on the forums. I haven't been playing Starsector long, I only found out about it recently from Sseth's video. Bought it the next day and it has been destroying my sleep schedule ever since.

I'm new to the game, so I'm going to hold off on giving feedback for a couple days while I play with the most recent balance changes, that being said I still wanted to weigh in on the conversation: No one is making anyone else download and play with this mod. It is entirely optional. By creating this mod you have enhanced the player experience of myself and, I'm sure, many others.

I mentioned before that I bought the game the day after watching Sseth's video. I didn't buy Starsector immediately because I was still on the fence regarding whether or not I wanted to make the time investment to learn what appeared to be a pretty complicated game that came out more than six years ago. I didn't make the decision to go ahead and purchase the game until I saw this mod, your mod. The ships, the nullspace effects, the lore all just appealed so much to me that it pushed me over the precipice and made me want to learn and play Starsector. If not for Sylphon it's very likely I would not have purchased Starsector.

Please do not let a very vocal minority overshadow the majority of people who silently play with and enjoy your mod. If you feel you need to put out balance patches based upon your own knowledge of the game, changes that come with base game updates and constructive criticism/feedback from players then absolutely go for it. But on the other hand don't feel pressured to do so against your own better judgement. This is your mod, made on your own time and released for the betterment of the game and the community. If someone doesn't like your mod and personally feels it brings down the quality of their experience in the game then they are free to uninstall it and never give it another thought.

That's just my two cents, take it for what it's worth from a new player but also someone genuinely appreciates your mod, the time you have invested and continue to invest in it. Starsector would be a lesser game without these glorious purple terrors.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5b - Balancing with the nerfminigun
« Reply #290 on: August 08, 2019, 11:34:05 AM »

ummm my dude the dread eagle can solo an entire fleet
I've not found the Dread Eagle to be all that impressive.  What sort of variant are you using?

(Now, if you want a ship that can solo entire fleets - of pirates if not always tougher factions - consider the Ascordia.  On the other hand, the Ascordia's logistical footprint is in the cruiser-to-battleship range, so I don't consider it to be unbalanced; it's fun to fly, but its strength is comparable to an Aurora, and the AI has a bad habit of teleporting it into weapons fire so it is pretty much a player-only ship.)

If you feel you need to put out balance patches based upon your own knowledge of the game, changes that come with base game updates and constructive criticism/feedback from players then absolutely go for it. But on the other hand don't feel pressured to do so against your own better judgement. This is your mod, made on your own time and released for the betterment of the game and the community. If someone doesn't like your mod and personally feels it brings down the quality of their experience in the game then they are free to uninstall it and never give it another thought.
100% agree.  I will debate things I think are balance issues (until asked to stop) - but that should not be taken as hostile or indicative of dislike of the mod; if I didn't think Sylphon was neat I wouldn't be posting in this thread.  As it is, Sylphon is one of the mods that I always have enabled, and will recommend to people.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Nia Tahl

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #291 on: August 08, 2019, 12:36:33 PM »

Here's round 2 of my balance adjustments.

Mind you, I'm not just making these changes cause people have been whining. A number of these have been long-time coming, but I just couldn't be bothered to do the work since I have frankly next to no motivation to work on Sylphon anymore for various reasons and would rather focus on my other mod. Anyhow, here's some more changes, including a more general rebalancing of FP and DP values that should get rid of inflated fleet-sizes in the campaign.

Changelog:
Spoiler
Quote
0.9.5c
Balancing:
- Increased Furika top speed from 110 to 130
- Increased Celika top speed from 110 to 120
- Lowered Dread Eagle shield efficiency from 0.8 to 1.0

- Major tweaking of FP values for all ships. Too many to list here, but generally FP values went up, which should result in Sylphon fleets being less oversized.

- Celika DP 8 -> 7
- Etrika DP 18 -> 12
- Tilia DP 14 -> 12
- Synastry DP 30 -> 28
- Eolia DP 25 -> 22
- Equilibrium DP 50 -> 60
- Frelia DP 50 -> 45
   
[close]
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Last_Cetra

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #292 on: August 08, 2019, 06:48:57 PM »

The mod is amazing. I picked this up during the sseth-tide. Your mod has allowed me to fully explore the mechanics and logistics of this game with some really fun graphics, backstory, and ships.

THANKS!
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Takion Kasukedo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #293 on: August 09, 2019, 06:23:31 AM »

I'll pitch in wit my experience of Sylphon. I almost never buy the Dread Eagle because from my experiences, the Dread Eagle is a very vulnerable cruiser. The Scourge Eagle, less so, thanks to Outcast tech.

It's likely due to steady/aggressive captains going in with a strike/shock trooper-esque build and getting mauled by enemy ships because *warping right in front of them is the best course of action* logic.

The Dread Eagle, is incapable of "soloing entire fleets" unless their captains are either incompetent, poorly outfitted, wielding garbage fleets, or they have small ships. Taking on fleets that can very reliably fight back and have the tech to do so yields very different results, and you don't have to install mods for that either.

Now, issue addressed, Sylphon is unique thanks to nullspace, nulltech and AI core usage of the faction themselves. If my computer was more powerful, i'd play with this, Mikoyan, Blackrock and Shadowyards the whole time as well as other faction mods (such a fragile unit). They have varying ships with different roles revolving around nullspace. The Dread/Scourge Eagle are 1 or 2 examples of this. For a really good example, look at the remnant-esque capital, the Equilibrium and how it wields it's tech. Yes, it's a Nullspace Skimmer, but it doesn't need to warp behind to use it effectively. More so thanks to the hullmods. Seresvalla is a fleet support ship with a varying loadout that can be used to tell Conquests to "cease and desist", or drink the flux and blast enemies with it. It's not a ship that should be left to it's own devices from my experiences, even if it can have loadouts that allow it to.

The only ship I've a definitive problem with is the Gotter-gunner ship, the Finis Astra. A very specific niche is filled with that ship, which is otherwise useless, and that's station-killer duty. Other than that, the faction is solid, and it saddens me that some factors are leading to abandonment. I do hope the faction still gets maintained in the future, but it seems that all that's needed is some time off of working on Sylphon, no matter how long.
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sepion

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #294 on: August 11, 2019, 09:23:40 AM »

Say do you guys have some proper build for the various ships? I find aesthetically the ships very pleasing and have already 4 of them in my fleet, however I struggle with good builds for them. My experience so far is that a good build makes or breaks these ships. The Valestri-class is one where I don'T seem to find a good build ...
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hovershift

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #295 on: August 12, 2019, 12:52:57 PM »

how does it work the sylphon core installation?
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PapaPetro

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #296 on: August 14, 2019, 04:12:10 PM »

Loving this mod. The Rakia is so much fun!
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 04:14:16 PM by PapaPetro »
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XEP624

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #297 on: August 14, 2019, 04:44:20 PM »

This mod quickly grew to become one of my favorites. Thanks for all your hard work.

Is it possible to meet/obtain Outcast ships out in the wild? I really like their unique systems and would like to get my hands on a couple of them in the campaign.
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bowman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #298 on: August 16, 2019, 03:15:21 AM »

I absolutely adore this mod, it has become my favorite mod and will definitely be included in every playthrough from now on. A whole-hearted thank you for making it. I find myself wanting to fly every ship I come across and that is truly amazing to me.

Has anyone found a way to make use of the Finis Astra in combat? My attempts have left me at a loss because it seems like I have to rely on the AI more than I necessarily can if I were to use it the way I want to. I was hoping I could use it against stations at least but that didn't go well, either. On a related note- does the AI know how to use its weapon? I haven't tested too much yet (planning to after posting) but it didn't do so in the simulator at all so I've been operating on the assumption that it doesn't. Same question stands for the Frelia, though it might be using it in all the battles and I simply haven't noticed but I get the feeling it hasn't. I was surprised when I saw the Seresvella start charging its system and wipe 3 frigates as well as an enemy fighter wave the first time I stopped piloting it in favor of the Equilibrium I had just gotten, though. That was nice to see.

I'm curious if others have had the same goal and discovered a fleet comp that works for locking enemies down while keeping themselves (allies) out of its firing line or if maybe it's less a matter of fleet comp and more one of getting skilled at predicting where the AI will fly and just sitting in the right spot in siege mode.
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Mr. Nobody

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Re: [0.9.1a] Sylphon RnD 0.9.5c - Balancing with the nerfminigun, round 2
« Reply #299 on: August 16, 2019, 03:29:17 PM »

I have a small nitpick about the faction:
Sylphon systems are fairly close to the core of the system, Sylphon uses AI in their ships, Hegemony thinks AI is super extra septuple illegal.
Question is, "why did they settle close to a faction that believes their practices to be even worse than those of the tri-tach?"

Is mostly a lore-nitpick but still
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