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Author Topic: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives  (Read 27892 times)

intrinsic_parity

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2018, 05:53:47 PM »

I think the stealth play-style in general needs a buff. Maybe making small fleets more stealthy, or having more skills/hullmods that buff sensor stats. Maybe a skill that gives sensor benefits inversely proportional to fleet size.
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Gothars

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2018, 06:10:14 PM »

Maybe a skill that gives sensor benefits inversely proportional to fleet size.

That could be a pretty good general mechanic. Big fleets would have to use pickets as their eyes, and you could blind them by taking the pickets out.

Maybe, once you have a big fleet, you could even hire/build your own picket ships that operate outside your fleet as you eyes. And then you try to protect them from being swatted.
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Ranakastrasz

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2018, 07:05:03 PM »


I think mechanics should be written for the main factions and secondary factions first, and then, exceptions and new rules should be made for the weird factions.

Right... so, say, hardcoding their standing with the player to -50 would be along those lines :)

More like, Personal opinion rules. Something like an Allegiance slider maybe. Normal factions would tend towards a high value, so they heavily weigh their faction's opinion over their own, while Pirates, and to a lesser extent Independents, and maybe even Pathers would have a low Allegiance, so while having a high reputation with pirates might make pirates a bit less likely to attack you, it won't stop them outright.
Killing pirates wouldn't have nearly the same type of impact as Hegemony fleets would, since pirates are only loosely associated, while Hegemony fleets are literally part of the military.

Hmm. I really need to write up a full suggestion, with this and my other ideas on reputation.
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Sutopia

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2018, 09:06:48 PM »

I think the stealth play-style in general needs a buff. Maybe making small fleets more stealthy, or having more skills/hullmods that buff sensor stats. Maybe a skill that gives sensor benefits inversely proportional to fleet size.

Or simply a phase freight that can offer enough fuel and supply for a phase ship task force for the nature of halved sensor profile of phase ships?
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Narvi

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2018, 11:39:33 PM »

Maybe a skill that gives sensor benefits inversely proportional to fleet size.

That could be a pretty good general mechanic. Big fleets would have to use pickets as their eyes, and you could blind them by taking the pickets out.

Maybe, once you have a big fleet, you could even hire/build your own picket ships that operate outside your fleet as you eyes. And then you try to protect them from being swatted.

I've always preferred the idea of an expensive (upkeep-wise and cost-wise) dedicated AWACS ship instead, mostly because I got so mad about not being able to find those probes at the edge of the system.

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Mr. Sterling

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2018, 09:40:24 AM »

What if you are a pirate?
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Jonlissla

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2018, 12:46:13 PM »

I have some very specific ideas for what I'd like to do re: new game settings (and it probably won't make it into 0.9), but that's all I'll say about that :-X

Speaking of new game settings; have you ever thought of any kind of NG+ option? I think Pillars of Eternity 2 did a interesting twist on it. For each achievment you unlock you gain certain points that help you out when creating a new character, like bonus money and similar things.
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Steel Threat

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2018, 02:19:42 AM »

Long time lurker here. Unlikely to change, just wanted to chip in.

I'm seeing a lot of talk here of removing the ability to be friendly with the pirate faction from the game.

Please don't.

I can definitely understand why it'd make the game so much easier to handle events by just having them as permanent bad guys that exist to be slaughtered and give experience/supplies/be combat fodder, but I've always appreciated the tone it sets by having pirates be a mix of outlaws, (noble?) rebels, bloodthirsty psychopaths, and people just trying to survive. Being able to get on their good side (typically at the expense of your reputation with the major factions) is something I've always enjoyed, even if it's typically quite difficult (which suits me fine).

The pirate playstyle represents a huge change to how you play the game and see things, and I've always enjoyed it as being very difficult, but also very rewarding. No other faction you join presents nearly as much of a change as the pirates do (both thematic and gameplay wise) - though I acknowledge exactly what makes me enjoy it so much also makes it so frustrating to integrate as an option, being so different from the standard approach of 90%+ of players.

While I understand that trying to account for the player being friendly to pirates might make a lot of events more difficult, please consider an alternative solution that would allow for the player to remain friendly with pirates, just because it's something I really enjoy about the game that adds a lot of depth to it (even though it's giving you a huge headache in terms of complexity).

Alternatives? Maybe having event pirates be 'marauders' or 'raiders' something and always hostile as a separate faction (to represent those who will never co-operate with you, the worst side of the pirate faction who have no qualms in dealing with a rival), or maybe just nullifying reputation loss for fighting pirates in self defense (hey, you're just proving you're a badass, right?).

I don't really have any perfect solutions (both of those would still take a fair chunk of work, I'm well aware). Still, I wanted to let you know some people really do appreciate that you can play pirate, and I wanted to make my (entirely selfish) request of keeping that feature intact, because I really enjoy it.

Besides, I'd hate to lose that wonderful pirate friendly market theme. It's amazing how the song transitions from being hostile, suspicious and threatening when you're hostile to the pirates, then going to noble and hopeful when you're friendly with a few small changes. Really gives the theme of a desperate rebellion, or just trying to stay alive.
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Sutopia

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2018, 04:52:23 AM »

Long time lurker here. Unlikely to change, just wanted to chip in.

I'm seeing a lot of talk here of removing the ability to be friendly with the pirate faction from the game.

Please don't.

.........

Besides, I'd hate to lose that wonderful pirate friendly market theme. It's amazing how the song transitions from being hostile, suspicious and threatening when you're hostile to the pirates, then going to noble and hopeful when you're friendly with a few small changes. Really gives the theme of a desperate rebellion, or just trying to stay alive.

I don't think pirates even HAVE any kind of central authority or universal intel network thus I don't think a universal reputation applies in first place.
A possible approach would be let there be a general "pirate" faction but when a pirate raiding outpost spawns it generates itself a sub-faction and run a semi-independent reputation system.
The initial reputation it spawns would be -50+(0.5 x general pirate rep) (or whatever factor fits in there) and they still can show partial hostility at rep 0 but much less than at -100.
After all pirates are still humans, they just want money and cargo and whatever valuable for them to have better life, maybe you'll be able to negotiate with pirate outpost boss at sub-faction rep 0 and give them something they ask for to temporarily stop them from raiding. (They may also ask you for warships and weapons and later cheat on you... who knows lol)
Anything you do to pirates (including sub-factions) now will have little impact on pirate general rep but they still do stack up, allowing more dynamic strategy against pirates.

I ain't sure how difficult it is to "add" a sub-faction mid-game dynamically but I'ma try my best making such mod if Alex ended up fixing pirate rep at -50.
As the economy has been remade, the trade mission interceptor may not just be pirates, they can be transponder-off competitors from other markets, not necessarily pirates anymore. (Privateer operation)
Also there already exist all the independence "scavenger" that can potentially become "pirates" when you're far from core world.
Maybe the concept "pirate" itself needs some kind of revamp IMHO. After all, killing people for fun is no majority and make no sense; they rob for their living.
In certain circumstances, maybe you can even "hire" them, give them certain money and/or equipment to make privateer operations for you (with the risk they got defeated and accuse you for instigating/ or they simply cheat on you, walking away with given money doing nothing).
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 05:10:51 AM by Sutopia »
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Jonlissla

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2018, 06:01:47 AM »

I have to agree with above posters. While I don't mind having some faction being semi-permanent hostile to the player, the current way Pirates are represented is very lacklustre. I think the addition of subfactions is the way to go since there are already several groups that should be semi-independent, like the Pathers or Lion's Guard.
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2018, 07:18:10 AM »

I support the above posters as well. Personally I never play as a pirate but I don't think the option of joining them should be blocked.

"Lawless" could be the primary umbrella with branches like "pirates", "rebels", "marauders" and such, maybe on a fleet by fleet case? I like the above idea that killing one of this could raise rep with the pirates instead of dropping.
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Thaago

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2018, 09:12:41 AM »

Having the "raiders" be a separate pirate-like subfaction makes a certain amount of sense by breaking up the two gameplay roles of pirates: early/mid game combat enemies/sources of combat tension and illegal goods ports.

This helps with the issue of befriending the main pirate stations and gives them a niche they didn't have before: providing a smuggling port and a source of trade in illicit goods, both buying and selling, and a way for your colonies to profit from their own industries in ilicit goods (narcotics industry that exports to pirate stations for great profit?). They provide the 'illegal' options to the player that wants to do them at the cost of relations with all the main factions. This niche is closed if the (awesome) mechanic of raids tanks the player pirate relation.

Raiders meanwhile provide combat challenges to the early (and with raids mid) game players and a steady stream of bounties. They will still spawn from regular pirate bases as well so will be present in core worlds as current raiders are, but because they are a different subfaction the players will know which fleets are a threat should they go the outlaw friendly route themselves. The Raiders can be pegged at -50 relations to the players: they want to pillage and no fancy talking is going to stop them.

From the gameplay immersion perspective: The Luddic Path is the extreme branch of the Luddic Church and defending yourself against them doesn't hurt your standing with the main faction. Similarly, I can't see why the folks at Kanto's Den would mind you protecting yourself from those nutjob raiders.

Another possibility is to rename the current pirates "outlaws" and name the raiders "pirates". Or name them "reavers" and get bonus points with the Firefly crowd. (Would that be copyright infringement or an homage?)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 09:16:32 AM by Thaago »
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Megas

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2018, 10:30:49 AM »

If Pirates had stuff (I cannot find in Open/Black markets) worth buying for joining them, I would think about it doing so.  As they are, they are a bunch of losers who failed to break out and make it big.  If I want to be a pirate in Starsector, I would join a major faction then beat up enemies.  I get access to better goodies and get paid for acting like a pirate.  If I get stuck with junk, I prefer to stay as a free agent (either to build my empire or destroy everything) than join with other losers stuck with junk.

I guess playing as pirates is hard mode, but trying to win a harder game by making yourself lame is... well, lame (to me).  Win a harder game where power escalates (you get better powers, enemies get deadlier) seems more fun.
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Sutopia

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2018, 10:35:55 AM »

If Pirates had stuff (I cannot find in Open/Black markets) worth buying for joining them, I would think about it doing so.  As they are, they are a bunch of losers who failed to break out and make it big.  If I want to be a pirate in Starsector, I would join a major faction then beat up enemies.  I get access to better goodies and get paid for acting like a pirate.  If I get stuck with junk, I prefer to stay as a free agent (either to build my empire or destroy everything) than join with other losers stuck with junk.

I guess playing as pirates is hard mode, but trying to win a harder game by making yourself lame is... well, lame (to me).  Win a harder game where power escalates (you get better powers, enemies get deadlier) seems more fun.
Basically you're buying stuff from pirates in black markets you know...
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Megas

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2018, 01:35:09 PM »

Basically you're buying stuff from pirates in black markets you know...
Maybe, but they are available everywhere, regardless who owns the planet.  I do not need to join pirates to shop at black markets.  Black market is basically open market #2, not pirates' military base.
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