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Author Topic: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives  (Read 27893 times)

Alex

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 02:55:02 PM »

Will the debris fields and such disappear after a bit? Otherwise I'm worried that the pirates will win anyways through OoM errors and super lag

They will despawn, yeah. In the "map after pirate raid" screenshot, the derelict ships haven't despawned because the player fleet is still in-system.


Do bases serve economic purpose as well?  I assume so, but you can land/trade etc there just like anywhere else?

You can actually land there and trade, if you manage to avoid the fleets, but I'm not sure how I feel about that. It's mainly a consequence of those being set up as proper markets on the back end.

Could you form an alliance or up relations with pirates and then use these bases, or smuggle to them, or have your station raid them back?

Just curious what options there will be (and for some of these I'm more curious if that's an eventual maybe, not next patch stuff).

At this point, no. There are some possibly interesting options there but I don't want to delve into it without getting a lot of other stuff done first. Breadth first, then depth as needed, at least for this stuff.


Can new pirate bases spawn (either spontaneously built or stolen from someone), and can old pirate bases destroyed rebuild elsewhere?

Yes they can. "Old" bases don't reappear; a rebuilt base is a new base as far as the game is concerned.


What about playing as pirates? Can we build pirate bases and attack colonies too? I love being a pirate lol

I'm thinking through the options for players raiding core colonies; no specific comment quite yet :) You wouldn't be able to build exactly the same sort of base as the pirates - which is just a standalone station - but you could certainly build a colony with an orbital station.


Are pirate markets like Barad and Kanta's Den still in the core systems, or have they been pushed out into the random fringe worlds where the bases are?

They're in the core at the moment; not 100% sure on how it'll end up. Barad had to lose its orbital station defenses, since that kept attracting the Hegemony patrols and getting destroyed, but that... kind of makes sense. A Hegemony administrator might turn a blind eye to some "perfectly legitimate miners", but that's a lot harder to do if their station is bristling with guns.
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shoi

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 03:08:52 PM »

I'm not sure if im understanding correctly, but i'd imagine a player on good terms with pirates should be able to land but no one else?
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SCC

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 03:12:00 PM »

5 levels of pirate stations - nogunz, 1, 2, 3 combat sections, then mines, or those funny looking pike sections?
That makeshift sensor array seemed awfully cheap, but then again, I regard everything in the game at the moment as very cheap, even after changing ship and gun prices to be thrice as high. I should play without ship recovery skills. I also never picked up that objectives in combat are actually supposed to be some real things.
Will buildings have any differences based on the planet size or type? It's logical to have military base stationed on a barren rock, but it'd be better if it was logical in the game itself.
It would be nice if you expanded raid mechanic to make it usable for the player or factions in general (either as privateering or actual warfare), if you're affiliated.

SafariJohn

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2018, 03:19:26 PM »

Will Tigra City and other freestanding stations remain as they are or become battlestations? Have I asked this before?

What about playing as pirates? Can we build pirate bases and attack colonies too? I love being a pirate lol

I'm thinking through the options for players raiding core colonies; no specific comment quite yet :) You wouldn't be able to build exactly the same sort of base as the pirates - which is just a standalone station - but you could certainly build a colony with an orbital station.

On the one hand I understand the implementation difficulties of allowing players to build stations wherever they want. On the other hand standalone stations in asteroid belts/fields and around gas giants are classic archetypes. On the third hand I've had fun playing semi-nomadic factions in other games and the concept of a planet-less faction is cool.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:24:08 PM by SafariJohn »
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Alex

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 03:26:44 PM »

I'm not sure if im understanding correctly, but i'd imagine a player on good terms with pirates should be able to land but no one else?

Pirates don't require you to be friendly to trade, so long as your transponder is off.


5 levels of pirate stations - nogunz, 1, 2, 3 combat sections, then mines, or those funny looking pike sections?

Nothing that high, it tops out at "3 sections" and then quality goes up for the 5th tier.

Will buildings have any differences based on the planet size or type? It's logical to have military base stationed on a barren rock, but it'd be better if it was logical in the game itself.

Is it? Air seems like a pretty good thing to have, even for military types :)

But, right - some industries are affected by planetary conditions. All industries are affected by the hazard rating of a planet; it increases their upkeep.

It would be nice if you expanded raid mechanic to make it usable for the player or factions in general (either as privateering or actual warfare), if you're affiliated.

Yep, it's something I'm thinking about.


Will Tiger Station and other freestanding stations remain as they are or become battlestations? Have I asked this before?

I don't think that's a vanilla thing?

In any case, something like say Kanta's Den:
1) remains a standalone station, and
2) has a (in this case) "star fortress" industry

Since the game is aware of the primary entity being a station, it doesn't spawn a separate "station" entity around it, but treats the primary entity as if it were the station, for purposes of combat etc. Hope that answers your question!

On the one hand I understand the implementation difficulties of allowing players to build stations wherever they want. On the other hand standalone stations in asteroid belts/fields and around gas giants are classic archetypes. On the third hand I've had fun playing semi-nomadic factions in other games and the concept of a planet-less faction is cool.

I hear you, but gotta draw the line somewhere. And mechanically, there's no real incentive to do that, except for rare cases where there isn't a planet at all. This is a "very, extremely unlikely maybe" in my book.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 03:32:40 PM »

What I did not expect to see in this blog post: comm relays being destructible! Very ambitious.

Will Tiger Station and other freestanding stations remain as they are or become battlestations? Have I asked this before?

I don't think that's a vanilla thing?

Sorry, I meant Tigra City.
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Goumindong

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 03:37:11 PM »

I think he means that this looks like a large scale re-imagining of pirates. And so pirate planets don’t make much sense. So he was wondering if the planets themselves were long for he world

To me it would fit better thematically with this system if pirate markets “just showed up” on unstable planets. Like how you have to have a certain influence to open the faction market you have to have a below certain market stability to access the pirate market.
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Morbo513

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 04:32:32 PM »

Sounds sick. I would hope that Pirates (and presumably any other hostile factions) would sometimes target yours and each others' relays/beacons/arrays when attacking one anothers' systems
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Alex

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 04:36:26 PM »

"Pirates" covers a wide range of stuff in terms of how it's being used in vanilla. E.G. on Umbra, they're revolutionaries fighting against the established order. At Garnir (Barad's moon with pirate base, now) it's basically some low-level illegal activity. Or it could mean a world whose government is no longer in control and was replaced by warlord rule. Or more "traditional" pirates like the ones operating from these bases.

Sounds sick. I would hope that Pirates (and presumably any other hostile factions) would sometimes target yours and each others' relays/beacons/arrays when attacking one anothers' systems

Yep, that's how it works. E.G. it's possible for objectives in populated systems to change hands now and again, and when pirate raiders come in, they may break off some units to take objectives.
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Thaago

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 04:57:19 PM »

This looks really cool, and also super extendable to things other than pirates...

This next version is looking incredible, thanks Alex!
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FooF

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 05:42:49 PM »

Yes...! Combat with Purpose™!

These raids add a much needed layer of both instability and momentum to the campaign. Even the campaign objectives are well-suited for give-and-take between factions. I really like where this is going and how its being implemented.

I notice in the screenshot that the pirate base is a fair distance away from the targeted system. I'm assuming that we'll have some intel that tells us that the raid has assembled and is en route. Is there any incentive in-game to dispatching raids before they launch (best), before they reach the targeted system (better), joining the affected parties to fight the pirates (ok), or mopping up after the pirates are retreating/win (poor/very poor)? It'd make sense for a faction to pay a premium for a preemptive strike. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, after all... :)

Also, if the pirate raiding fleets have to travel across multiple core systems (in hyperspace), I'm assuming they're going to be hostile to everything along the way. So, what are the chances that other patrols around the jump points, not affiliated with the targeted system, will cut down the pirate fleets before they arrive?
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Megas

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2018, 05:47:13 PM »

Thinking about pirates makes me wonder where are they all coming from (aside from computer conjuring them up ex nihilo)?  That is a lot of blood (if they were real) to satisfy any bloodthirsty warmonger.

I guess Remnants can join in on their own kill-all-humans crusade action.
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2018, 06:54:24 PM »

Seems like lots of fun. Is there a max number of how many active bases the pirates will spawn? I mean, if you build enough strong defenses I guess you wouldn't have to worry about a raid, but if the pirates keep making bases then your colony will eventually fall.

Another thing that worries me is that pirates are.. well.. overused. In a regular run of Starsector they will be your enemy for about 60-80% of the game, depending on how much you explore and how much you engage with another faction. I was hoping that at the colony battle level things would change a bit in terms of what battles we'd be fighting.
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Alex

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2018, 09:03:25 PM »

This looks really cool, and also super extendable to things other than pirates...

This next version is looking incredible, thanks Alex!

:D

I notice in the screenshot that the pirate base is a fair distance away from the targeted system. I'm assuming that we'll have some intel that tells us that the raid has assembled and is en route. Is there any incentive in-game to dispatching raids before they launch (best), before they reach the targeted system (better), joining the affected parties to fight the pirates (ok), or mopping up after the pirates are retreating/win (poor/very poor)? It'd make sense for a faction to pay a premium for a preemptive strike. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, after all... :)

Not particularly; it's just an option you can take if it's more convenient. The bounty is for destroying a station, btw, not stopping a raid, so that doesn't quite factor in there.

Also, if the pirate raiding fleets have to travel across multiple core systems (in hyperspace), I'm assuming they're going to be hostile to everything along the way. So, what are the chances that other patrols around the jump points, not affiliated with the targeted system, will cut down the pirate fleets before they arrive?

Pretty unlikely - there aren't a whole lot of patrols in hyperspace, and the game takes a few liberties simulating fleets far away from the player. Plus, there's a good chance that any solo patrol in hyperspace would get quickly overwhelmed by a raid, at least a large one.

Thinking about pirates makes me wonder where are they all coming from (aside from computer conjuring them up ex nihilo)?

Well, if you consider that Chicomoztoc has a population in the hundreds of millions, and how poor the general quality of life is in the Sector...




Seems like lots of fun. Is there a max number of how many active bases the pirates will spawn? I mean, if you build enough strong defenses I guess you wouldn't have to worry about a raid, but if the pirates keep making bases then your colony will eventually fall.

There's a max (TBD, probably something like 3 + whatever is currently leeching off the player's colonies). Also some thoughts re: what might cause that number to go up, but nothing concrete as of yet.

Another thing that worries me is that pirates are.. well.. overused. In a regular run of Starsector they will be your enemy for about 60-80% of the game, depending on how much you explore and how much you engage with another faction. I was hoping that at the colony battle level things would change a bit in terms of what battles we'd be fighting.

I mean, gameplay-wise they just make perfect sense as a problem for new colonies, and it's a good one to start with so that I can actually get into some playtesting. I'd imagine colonies will also push you into conflict with major factions (and indeed have some thoughts on the specifics here), but that would generally be a "slightly later on in the game" thing, since your initial set of rust-bucket patrols and low-tier stations would not be much help there.

I do see what you're saying, though. If the player doesn't take the necessary steps, pirates can be the main opponent throughout the game. Hopefully that will indeed change up a bit.
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Pirate Bases, Raids, and Objectives
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 09:35:01 PM »

In any case, something like say Kanta's Den:
1) remains a standalone station, and
2) has a (in this case) "star fortress" industry

Since the game is aware of the primary entity being a station, it doesn't spawn a separate "station" entity around it, but treats the primary entity as if it were the station, for purposes of combat etc.

Means it can be destroyed, I assume?
Also: can another, strong pirate base spawn in core world?



Can new pirate bases spawn (either spontaneously built or stolen from someone), and can old pirate bases destroyed rebuild elsewhere?

Yes they can. "Old" bases don't reappear; a rebuilt base is a new base as far as the game is concerned.

On that basis, and considering

You can actually land there and trade, if you manage to avoid the fleets, but I'm not sure how I feel about that. It's mainly a consequence of those being set up as proper markets on the back end.

: will the major factions build colonies of their own for players to interact with?(in limited numbers of course)
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