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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 304369 times)

SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #765 on: November 19, 2018, 05:18:27 PM »

@FooF - I'll keep an eye out! Possibly related to the issue with Reapers and Sabots seeming like they're doing too much damage in some situations.

There is 100% for-sure a bug with damage. I was testing for it using Reapers and killed a 22k HP Onslaught from full hull and armor with one salvo of four. Reapers only do 4k damage each, and 4x4000 is definitely less than 22,000.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #766 on: November 19, 2018, 05:29:36 PM »

Did you have any skills? 22k/16k is only 1.375, and I think you can get up to that with skills.
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Baqar79

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #767 on: November 19, 2018, 05:33:51 PM »

Hmmm, it certainly is worth checking research station debris after the original haul...twice.  Wasn't impressed by the initial haul, but it was ok (Needler & Mauler blueprints), check debris first time; Medusa blueprint found...ahh ok that's decent, lets check it again to be sure; Shade blueprint found.

I think the salvager occupation just became a lot more hazardous.... :D
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #768 on: November 19, 2018, 05:41:08 PM »

It is worth spamming salvage on an object with rare stuff until you get literally nothing.  One time, I got a rare item on the sixth or seventh salvage attempt.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #769 on: November 19, 2018, 05:49:20 PM »

There is 100% for-sure a bug with damage. I was testing for it using Reapers and killed a 22k HP Onslaught from full hull and armor with one salvo of four. Reapers only do 4k damage each, and 4x4000 is definitely less than 22,000.

Are you positive? I can only kill it with 5 Reapers with maxed skills, though there's not too much health left after the 4th. It takes 7 with no skills.

I did just find and fix a bug with Strike Commander causing the damage multiplier be almost double what it was supposed to, but that doesn't apply to regular HE damage, and stepping through it with a debugger, the calculations all look correct.

If anyone has more info/something to test out for this, that'd be super helpful!

(Another possibility, perhaps: Entropy Amplifier is more common now that it's on the Afflictor?)

Edit: just tried it vs an enemy with all skills, in case having skills somehow made the ship take more damage, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I wonder if this "suddenly taking too much damage" feeling is due to fighters doing way more than they should w/ Strike Commander, but it feeling like the damage came from something bigger-looking that happened around the same time.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 05:59:43 PM by Alex »
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Arrath

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #770 on: November 19, 2018, 05:52:36 PM »

Are there any thoughts as to adding the ability to dictate which variant fittings a custom ordered ship will get produced with?

Say I come up with a custom Gryphon loadout and want all that I produce to come with that.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #771 on: November 19, 2018, 06:00:10 PM »

Did you have any skills? 22k/16k is only 1.375, and I think you can get up to that with skills.

I used a mission ship in the simulator. Usually the Reapers did normal damage, a couple times they did way more. I watched carefully but saw no clues as to why they would do different damage in different runs. I am pretty sure, however, that all the Reapers were affected at the same time; maybe that will narrow it down some for Alex.

I would guess it is related to AoE damage. It's the only thing that seems even semi-likely.


There is 100% for-sure a bug with damage. I was testing for it using Reapers and killed a 22k HP Onslaught from full hull and armor with one salvo of four. Reapers only do 4k damage each, and 4x4000 is definitely less than 22,000.

Are you positive?

One. Hundred. Percent.

I'm also sure it has nothing to do with Entropy Amplifier.

I have seen it with no-skills Harbinger and no-skills Afflictor (not using system). They're easy to test with because you can use Reapers against the sim Onslaught, but I highly suspect this is not limited to Reapers.
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The Soldier

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #772 on: November 19, 2018, 06:01:32 PM »

If it failed, the intel item should say "failed" in the title. Is that not the case somewhere?
It does, but at one point there were 3 different raids going on at the same time and 7 previous ones that had failed.  Maybe that's just a side effect of the current bug where if the Orbital Station is destroyed and they fail the ground attack, the fleets stick around, hm.
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Cosmitz

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #773 on: November 19, 2018, 06:12:03 PM »

One. Hundred. Percent.

I'm also sure it has nothing to do with Entropy Amplifier.

I have seen it with no-skills Harbinger and no-skills Afflictor (not using system). They're easy to test with because you can use Reapers against the sim Onslaught, but I highly suspect this is not limited to Reapers.

I have to tag on this bandwagon with damage here. Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but the damage model, even on Buffallos, had a bit of a curve/give which was always satisfying pushing through. Right now it feels like either armor doesn't exist in some instances or it's getting straight unmoderated damage that hull would get. I have given and taken shots from anti-armor weapons that just seem to 'penetrate'/pierce right through armor. And i even have the +150 armor/bonused armor skills.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:14:53 PM by Cosmitz »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #774 on: November 19, 2018, 06:13:42 PM »

@TheSoldier: that's really odd, not supposed to be more than 2 expeditions, an inspection, and a pirate raid (or more, but that's unlikely) going on at the same time *tops*. Basically expeditions are capped to 2 simultaneous and the rest can add in randomly.

I used a mission ship in the simulator. Usually the Reapers did normal damage, a couple times they did way more. I watched carefully but saw no clues as to why they would do different damage in different runs. I am pretty sure, however, that all the Reapers were affected at the same time; maybe that will narrow it down some for Alex.

I would guess it is related to AoE damage. It's the only thing that seems even semi-likely.

...

One. Hundred. Percent.

I'm also sure it has nothing to do with Entropy Amplifier.

I have seen it with no-skills Harbinger and no-skills Afflictor (not using system). They're easy to test with because you can use Reapers against the sim Onslaught, but I highly suspect this is not limited to Reapers.

Thank you for the added info. Good idea re: AoE damage; going to look at that angle.

I have to tag on this bandwagon with damage here. Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but the damage model, even on Buffallos, had a bit of a curve/give which was always satisfying pushing through. Right now it feels like either armor doesn't exist in some instances or it's getting the same HE damage that hull would get. I have given and taken shots from anti-armor weapons that just seem to 'penetrate'/pierce right through armor.

Hmm.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #775 on: November 19, 2018, 06:18:20 PM »

I guess I should detail how I tested. For the record, I am on RC7; I don't think that affects anything though.

As I mentioned, I first saw it (but wasn't sure) on Saturday while testing a triple Typhoon Harbinger (no combat skills) against the sim Onslaught. The three Reapers would sometimes take the Onslaught to near-dead with one volley.


This evening, I took the Ambush mission's Afflictor, loaded it up with 4 Reapers and EMR, and killed the sim Onslaught with it by flanking to the rear. Never used the ship system.

I did this like 10 times. Usually it took 7-8 missiles as you would expect (1 or 2 get shot down sometimes). Twice, however, the first volley of 4 missiles was enough to destroy it.

With more controlled conditions (disabling the target's AI, using one of those meat-block ships in that testing mod, etc.), the effect can probably be observed with other weapons.


Okay, tested twice more as above while writing this and killed it with 5 Reapers both times. I'm going to keep testing.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #776 on: November 19, 2018, 06:42:06 PM »

Okay, I've tested quite a few times, and here's what I've confirmed:

Without Entropy Amplifier:
7 hits to kill
6 hits to kill
5 hits to kill

With Entropy Amplifier:
5 hits to kill
3 hits to kill

I have a PD laser on the Afflictor and the low number kills seem to happen when I let it fire, but not when I tell it to hold fire. However, I'm not sure of this. I haven't seen a 4 hits to kill again yet.

I'm going to see if using different weapons in the turret has any effect. I hope not.

Edit: 2 tests with Ion Cannon

First test, hold fire - 7 Reapers fired to kill
Second test, free fire - 4 Reapers fired to kill

Edit 2: 4 more tests of each.

Hold Fire: 7 shots
Hold Fire: 8 shots (1 bounce)
Hold Fire: 7 shots
Hold Fire: 7 shots

Free Fire: 5 shots
Free Fire: 5 shots
Free Fire: 5 shots
Free Fire: 5 shots

There is definitely a relation there.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:50:35 PM by SafariJohn »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #777 on: November 19, 2018, 06:59:56 PM »

... ok, this is crazy. Got it in 4 with no skills Ion Cannon firing. Not sure yet what the issue is, but just being able to reproduce it is a major step forward. Thank you!
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The Soldier

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #778 on: November 19, 2018, 07:04:40 PM »

@TheSoldier: that's really odd, not supposed to be more than 2 expeditions, an inspection, and a pirate raid (or more, but that's unlikely) going on at the same time *tops*. Basically expeditions are capped to 2 simultaneous and the rest can add in randomly.
Everything was in line, there was an expedition from the Sindrian Diktat, an expedition from the Persean League, and a pirate raid going on at the same time.  Just the log kept all the previous attacks in the Colony Threats tab (it's cleared up now, don't know what caused that in the first place) and it was a bit difficult to tell what was actually going on.

Something I did notice is that custom production ships don't add in your faction prefix, they use ISS instead.  Ships that you buy from the Open Market do have your faction's prefix, though.

If it helps anything, I've conducted the same tests as above and haven't gotten the same results.  Using RC8, it consistently takes 7-8 Reapers to down the SIM Onslaught.  Had it in 6 a couple times, but that's it.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 07:24:22 PM by The Soldier »
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Cosmitz

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #779 on: November 19, 2018, 07:45:52 PM »

Doing the same tests, RC9, and i'm not sure if these numbers are what you guys are discussing (since 200% HE damage vs armor), but i can utterly and consistently get a Reaper, Ion Cannon or not, to to 5829 HULL damage on an Onslaught with 2695 armor damage. Hitting the side/back, the Reaper seems to auto-aim for the turret mount (flak i think on the SIM Hairtrigger but any of the two work) and it always does the exact same damage.

But yeah, hitting the back, for /reasons/ with the Ion Cannon firing there is a chance for 4/5.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 08:05:26 PM by Cosmitz »
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