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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 305103 times)

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #345 on: October 21, 2018, 06:48:23 AM »

Lasher has three small ballistics (rear two will probably be LMGs or Vulcans for PD) compared to two medium energy (about four small energy).  Plus Lasher has one more missile mount.  Given how inferior energy is compared to ballistics, I probably would call it even.  (Pre-0.8 Tempest could barely support two heavy blasters, it probably cannot now.  More likely now is either two pulse lasers or combo of pulse laser/heavy blaster and tac laser/graviton beam)  Lasher is slower, I give you that.  Defended by super PD drones?  Probably a nerf compared to drone attacking a ship to distract it, and loss of active flares.

On the other hand, you can have almost two Lashers for the price of one 0.9 Tempest.  (It is a reason why current Harbinger is terrible, you can get better results with two Afflictors or two Sunders.)

Tempest's main weakness will probably be the same as today:  horrible shot range (combined with energy's horrible efficiency), and unlike today, drone may not be able to distract the AI so well (because drone cannot roam).  Without an escape button system, all Tempest has to avoid getting blasted by a bigger ship, is omni shield and good old twitch skills, which not everyone will be good at.
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #346 on: October 21, 2018, 07:03:30 AM »

I can't tell how excited I am to play this. If I knew the day it'd come out I'd have literally changed my work schedule. Keep up the good work Alex!
Couple comments:

Added Hegemony inspection

Huh, is that similar to the old inspections?

Goals are: (...)
Make salvaging without the skill but with Salvage Rigs a viable option, both in terms of rare items and resources gained

Wait, how does the rare items factor into Salvage Rigs? If I'm reading correctly, aren't the rare items drop rate only modified by the skill?

Known hullmods no longer drop or show up for sale
Buying up hullmods will NOT increase the odds of remaining ones showing up

So if the game rolls for a known hullmod to drop, it won't roll to drop another item in its place? Sounds odd to me. It'd make, for example, looting research stations yield less as the game goes on. When I read the first change I expected the drop to re-roll into a weapon or anything else of similar rarity.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 07:42:41 AM by Cyan Leader »
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Bishi

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #347 on: October 21, 2018, 07:57:40 AM »

So excited! Released in time for xmas? :D
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #348 on: October 21, 2018, 10:43:26 AM »

The Wolf is also technically an "attack" Frigate with a mobility system and a forward profile, and yes it's meant to be the Shrike to the Tempest's Medusa but now the Tempest can achieve almost 4x its firepower while having superior defences and base speed.

Wolf: 1x medium, 3x small, 2x small missile
Tempest: 2x medium (*1.5 from HEF if we're generous and assume 100% uptime), 1x small missile

So, 3 medium vs 1x medium, 3x small, and 1x small missile. Weighing 2 small slots as 1 medium, that's... actually even. Of course, the Tempest's "third" slot is flux free (but it's really not going to be 100% uptime, either), it's got drones (which are not at all reliable at actually shooting ships), and it doesn't have a mobility system - though it does have speed. The Wolf has a bit more OP, while the Tempest is a lot more expensive to field and maintain. As far as defenses, the Wolf is probably harder to pin down overall, while the Tempest - if it gets into a bad spot - is most likely just a goner.

It's definitely a better fighting ship than a Wolf, but I don't think it's half as clear-cut if you factor in cost, and its not by an insane amount in any case. The Tempest probably wins out as a later-game support ship (which is the point of the drones), but then it's probably not utilizing its HEF nearly as much.

All that said, I'll keep an eye on it; it did undergo substantial changes and it's likely *something* is out of whack.


IPDAI Tac laser with the buffed Advanced Turret Gyros Is going to be reaaaaally strong now. Also, with the IPDAI Damage buff against missiles, i can already see myself doing big side swipes with a tachyon lance to delete an entire wave of missiles.

Hmm, yeah, that'll be interesting to see - always fun to see "skill" maneuvers like that. (Also, another thing the Wolf can do, and the Tempest can't - so it's interesting that a Wolf specialized in PD could possibly outdo it at that...)


Quote
  • Prometheus: Reduced fuel capacity to 2500
  • High Resolution Sensors: Can now be learned and installed on other ships.
I don't really get the reason behind these changes. Prometheus was good as it was, with same fuel cap/maintenance ratio as all other tankers. HRS was a pretty great reason to find and get Apogee or Omen.

Unless I'm missing something, the Prometheus had a much better ratio - as it should - and it still has a better ratio after the change.

HRS is a "Logistics" hullmod, meaning it's limited to 2 per hull, not counting built-in. That last part means the Omen and Apogee are still special in that - in addition to getting HRS for free - they can also mount a full two Logistics mods.


Quote
Plasma Cannon: Damage reduced to 500 and and flux/shot reduced to 550
When we said that heavy blaster is practically a medium-sized heavy weapon, we didn't mean that plasma cannon should be just a better heavy blaster... It is better, but also boring now, you can't one-salvo frigates anymore.

I experimented with it a lot and this is pretty much the only place where it felt good but didn't either 1) completely outdo the other energy options or 2) turn out to be generally unusable by AI ships.

As it stands, we've got: Autopulse for general efficiency, HIL for anti-armor and pressure, Tachyon Lance for shield piercing/sniping, and the Plasma Cannon as a high-dps all-rounder that's not too good at any one thing. If you've got multiple large energy slots, there are reasons to go for just about any combination, since each one brings something different to the table.


Quote
Solar Shielding: reduced cost, beam damage effect changed to reduce energy damage by 20% instead
I'm going to fight REDACTED (or Sindrian Diktat): the hullmod. Cool. I think I might mount it from time to time now.

You all are missing the main reason to put Solar Shielding on, just saying.

Quote
Militarized Subsystems:
...
I'm not sure about this one. It feels like it makes the civilian ship penalty too insignificant, though maybe it requires a lot of OP. I'll have to see, but I don't think I'll like it, though it doesn't mean I won't use it.

It's a "Logistics" mod, so there's an opportunity cost beyond OP. It also increases crew requirements - which in 0.9a means a higher monthly salary - and that's a significant balancing factor. It's basically a way to double its effective maintenance cost without making it cost more supplies, which would make it bad from a logstics point of view.

Defective Manufactory seems to be a bit too harsh, doesn't low speed also affect survivability for fighters, since more ordnance can hit them?

I mean, yes. Need a two-pronged approach here to make sure that both slow and fast fighters are affected. If it's one or the other than either fast fighters are too good, or slow fighters basically don't care once they get into range of the enemy.

I think I talked about this on Twitter, but in general, as far as Converted Hangar goes, the point is to make it a lot more of a committment and also something that changes the ship more. It's still pretty good with interceptors - I mean, it's not very expensive, and the higher damage taken etc is offset by not having a replacement rate penalty. With bombers is where it gets more interesting, since the OP cost is *huge*, but so is the gameplay effect of having basically unlimited missile support on just about any ship.

Is there any advantageous for big fleets terrain remaining? It seems like it's all better for small fleets.

Per the patch notes: "In general: terrain that slows down fleets is where smaller fleets can run to get away from larger fleets"

Spoiler
Quote
Adding new assignments is free while the command frequency is open
Wait, then what did it even do before?
[close]

You could manually reassign ships between existing assignments for free, but not create new assignments.


I can't tell how excited I am to play this. If I knew the day it'd come out I'd have literally changed my work schedule. Keep up the good work Alex!

:D

Added Hegemony inspection

Huh, is that similar to the old inspections?

Not at all, but keeping this intentionally vague.

Wait, how does the rare items factor into Salvage Rigs? If I'm reading correctly, aren't the rare items drop rate only modified by the skill?

They don't, you're reading it right. Possibly awkward phrasing on my part; the point is just that you shouldn't feel forced to bring rigs (as you would if they got you more rare items) and that you can also still get good returns with rigs and without the skill (which is less rare items than with skill, but also no skill point investment).

So if the game rolls for a known hullmod to drop, it won't roll to drop another item in its place? Sounds odd to me. It'd make, for example, looting research stations yield less as the game goes on. When I read the first change I expected the drop to re-roll into a weapon or anything else of similar rarity.

Yep - but then research stations get blueprints, so it's just a drop in the bucket.


So excited! Released in time for xmas? :D

:-X
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The Soldier

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #349 on: October 21, 2018, 12:04:17 PM »

Thank you! I don't generally see a lot of feedback on the procgen, so this was really cool to read.

Ah, speaking of the generation, I've found more Jungle worlds orbiting Gas Giants of all things than having a separate orbit to themselves, sometimes way too close in or too far out.  Feels really weird about half the habitable worlds I've found are this specific type of Jungle world orbiting a gas giant.

And then there's the beautiful things like a Desert world orbiting twin suns, or a Water world with an asteroid belt orbiting a yellow star.  If I could rename a planet I would.

(I had a good bit of fun with the Apogee on a test playthrough - picking up new weapons to equip it with was a gradual process, since it's got such relatively diverse slots with lots of opportunities for upgrades. Still not entirely sold on the medium turrets - if they don't face front, then you're probably not going to put anything other than PD or smalls in them, but, well, that's not the worst thing. Let's see how it shakes out.)
Ah, the rear mediums now can't fire forward?  Not too much of a reduction in firepower I suppose (only so much a pair of Graviton Beams could do), and I'll almost certainly replace those with PD mounts.  Might be worth looking into what you could do with a pair of Synergy mounts though - missiles might be useful.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #350 on: October 21, 2018, 12:13:04 PM »

Ah, speaking of the generation, I've found more Jungle worlds orbiting Gas Giants of all things than having a separate orbit to themselves, sometimes way too close in or too far out.  Feels really weird about half the habitable worlds I've found are this specific type of Jungle world orbiting a gas giant.

And then there's the beautiful things like a Desert world orbiting twin suns, or a Water world with an asteroid belt orbiting a yellow star.  If I could rename a planet I would.

If you happen to see that again, could you grab a screenshot? Especially the "way too close or too far out" bit, that'd be interesting to see/possibly tweak. As far as being it jungle worlds in that position, that's more than likely just luck.


And then there's the beautiful things like a Desert world orbiting twin suns, or a Water world with an asteroid belt orbiting a yellow star.  If I could rename a planet I would.

You'll be able to once you colonize it!

If you're really serious about it, you could colonize, rename,t then abandon :D Just a minor matter of the expense.


Ah, the rear mediums now can't fire forward?  Not too much of a reduction in firepower I suppose (only so much a pair of Graviton Beams could do), and I'll almost certainly replace those with PD mounts.  Might be worth looking into what you could do with a pair of Synergy mounts though - missiles might be useful.

Did think about that! But then it's 2x medium and 1x large missile mounts, that seems... strong. And also identity-defining for the Apogee, turning it into a missile boat, which doesn't seem quite right.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #351 on: October 21, 2018, 12:28:32 PM »

Another note: Terminator Core damage to fighters/missiles is 2x, not 4x. Forgot to update the patch notes after making that change some time back.
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #352 on: October 21, 2018, 12:36:47 PM »

Heh, 4x did seem a tad absurd, watching the two drones absolutely tear Broadswords into pieces within a few shots.
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Bribe Guntails

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #353 on: October 21, 2018, 01:38:23 PM »

Quote
Solar Shielding: reduced cost, beam damage effect changed to reduce energy damage by 20% instead
I'm going to fight REDACTED (or Sindrian Diktat): the hullmod. Cool. I think I might mount it from time to time now.
You all are missing the main reason to put Solar Shielding on, just saying.



Added Hegemony inspection
Huh, is that similar to the old inspections?
Not at all, but keeping this intentionally vague.

Oh, I think I know EXACTLY what this is going to be all about.  ;D
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FooF

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #354 on: October 21, 2018, 01:59:01 PM »

Well, well, well. Exciting news all around.

A change that will drastically alter gameplay that I haven't seen much discussed is the Sustained Burn change. Holy Guacamole, Batman! Simple but elegant solution the homogenization of fleet burn speeds. Bravo. That also made Augmented Drive Field have a role again and it looks like Emergency Burn has its situational usage back rather being out-shined by SB the vast majority of the time.

I'm also liking the "Logistics" hullmod cap. Gives more meaningful choice to a variety of ship options.

"Added REDACTED (to do with population growth)" - You added a culling mechanism, didn't you? Get over size X and "something" brings it back into line. Plague, evil AI, civil unrest, some wandering fleet that is drawn to high populations like moth to flame...? I like it!

"Derelict ships in campaign will now show ship type in the tooltip." Thank you! Huge QoL improvement. I used to pause the game and zoom in to see the hull type.

"Transponder off trade no longer has any impact on reputation or suspicion level. Goal is a more clear distinction." I'm not sure what the clarity piece is about. I get that going in with transponder off had an ambiguous effect on reputation/suspicion and this removes it but I don't know what other distinctions there are. Basically, don't believe you can get away with smuggling or trading with an enemy?

"Removed Surveying Skill." Did Remote Survey get the axe, too?

"Ion Cannon/Ion Pulser: EMP Arcs..." So the arcing effect will be 4x more effective than previous? Is that to add more randomness to EMP or just make these EMP weapons more effective?

"Autopulse Laser: Increased charges to 30" - Adding Expanded Magazines will up this to 45 now. That's a heck of an opening volley/alpha strike.

I also like the IPDAI change. I really think we need to have a hullmod that does something similar except that the buffs are exclusively anti-fighter.

Solar Shielding reducing energy damage by 20% is significant. What was your "You all are missing the main reason of using this?" comment from earlier? I don't regularly take sun-dips or lure fleets into solar flares. I supposed if it's cheap enough, and all my ships were equipped with it, I could use that strategy but I see the damage reduction as the primary boon.

********

This is impressive stuff. Basically a new game again, much like 0.8's additions. I can't wait to try it out and see this XIV Battlegroup ship that's floating around out there. I'm sure there are other changes that are still undocumented or you're reserving for REDACTED reasons. Good job!

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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #355 on: October 21, 2018, 02:24:16 PM »

Oh, I think I know EXACTLY what this is going to be all about.  ;D

I wouldn't put it past you.


A change that will drastically alter gameplay that I haven't seen much discussed is the Sustained Burn change. Holy Guacamole, Batman! Simple but elegant solution the homogenization of fleet burn speeds. Bravo. That also made Augmented Drive Field have a role again and it looks like Emergency Burn has its situational usage back rather being out-shined by SB the vast majority of the time.

I'm also liking the "Logistics" hullmod cap. Gives more meaningful choice to a variety of ship options.

Thank you! Hopefully it'll all work out as intended.

"Added REDACTED (to do with population growth)" - You added a culling mechanism, didn't you? Get over size X and "something" brings it back into line. Plague, evil AI, civil unrest, some wandering fleet that is drawn to high populations like moth to flame...? I like it!

Negative. Let me just say that this is something you find.

"Transponder off trade no longer has any impact on reputation or suspicion level. Goal is a more clear distinction." I'm not sure what the clarity piece is about. I get that going in with transponder off had an ambiguous effect on reputation/suspicion and this removes it but I don't know what other distinctions there are. Basically, don't believe you can get away with smuggling or trading with an enemy?

Right, the clarity is "transponder is off, therefore I don't need to worry about reputation hits" vs "I need to worry some hard-to-quantify amount less".

"Removed Surveying Skill." Did Remote Survey get the axe, too?

Ohh, good catch. Hmm, let me just stick it under level 1 Salvaging for the moment.

"Ion Cannon/Ion Pulser: EMP Arcs..." So the arcing effect will be 4x more effective than previous? Is that to add more randomness to EMP or just make these EMP weapons more effective?

Mostly to avoid having to explain that it's a quarter damage in the weapon tooltip. It's not a major change in terms of effectiveness since we're talking about non-EMP damage only. The Ion Cannon's is pathetic to begin with, and the Ion Pulser 1) could do with a slight buff and 2) this damage is less effective because it arcs all over the place so isn't focused on damaged armor etc. It's something less than a 10% dps increase even if we consider it at full value.

Solar Shielding reducing energy damage by 20% is significant. What was your "You all are missing the main reason of using this?" comment from earlier? I don't regularly take sun-dips or lure fleets into solar flares. I supposed if it's cheap enough, and all my ships were equipped with it, I could use that strategy but I see the damage reduction as the primary boon.

A more careful reading of the tooltips - and the change log - may be in order :)


This is impressive stuff. Basically a new game again, much like 0.8's additions. I can't wait to try it out and see this XIV Battlegroup ship that's floating around out there. I'm sure there are other changes that are still undocumented or you're reserving for REDACTED reasons. Good job!

Thank you!
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Bastion.Systems

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #356 on: October 21, 2018, 02:26:55 PM »

We truly live in a blessed timeline.

Btw. really happy with all the burn changes.

Think about it: small elite wolfpack of super fast, tricked out high-tech frigates just causing chaos while near untouchable (until the supplies run out).
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FooF

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #357 on: October 21, 2018, 02:31:20 PM »

Ah, I see about Solar Shielding. Forgot that it nearly negates warp storm penalties (tells you how much I use it). Welcome to Pinball Wizard.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #358 on: October 21, 2018, 03:27:16 PM »

Mostly to avoid having to explain that it's a quarter damage in the weapon tooltip. It's not a major change in terms of effectiveness since we're talking about non-EMP damage only. The Ion Cannon's is pathetic to begin with, and the Ion Pulser 1) could do with a slight buff and 2) this damage is less effective because it arcs all over the place so isn't focused on damaged armor etc. It's something less than a 10% dps increase even if we consider it at full value.
Does this apply to Ion Beam and Tachyon Lance too?  If so, that makes relying on free damage from their shield piercing to finish off enemies even better.  I have scored numerous kills from the shield pierce and arcing damage Paragon can inflict.

"Autopulse Laser: Increased charges to 30" - Adding Expanded Magazines will up this to 45 now. That's a heck of an opening volley/alpha strike.
For Sunder and Paragon, yes.  Odyssey and Apogee lost firepower due to turret arc changes, and this just makes up for what they lost.  (Well, Odyssey could use homing missile in the heavy synergy to sort-of focus three heavies.  Locusts there could be useful, that is practically an old-fashioned needler, in terms of ammo count, that hits for HE overwhelming frag damage instead of kinetic.)


Like Foof, I do not care about Solar Shielding's campaign benefit.  There are much better campaign hullmods I like to use (like Automated Repair Unit) but do not due to limited OP totals.  Less energy damage taken would be the only reason I would want to install solar shielding.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 04:33:46 PM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (In-Dev) Patch Notes
« Reply #359 on: October 21, 2018, 03:29:44 PM »

Does this apply to Ion Beam and Tachyon Lance too?

It doesn't, no.
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