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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 471468 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #960 on: November 23, 2018, 09:37:48 PM »

RC10 should fix that, sounds like maybe you don't have it?
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #961 on: November 23, 2018, 09:40:54 PM »

Tech-Mines also dwindle in overall production (given to the player, anyway) as the cycles go by.  I've got 3 Colonies with Tech-Mining (2 Extensive and 1 Widespread) and last month they contributed 4 Metal and 2 Fuel. :) Curiously though, while the stuff given to the player flatlines, the colony extracts an ever-growing amount of Fuel, Supplies, Metals, and Heavy Machinery as the population gets bigger.
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #962 on: November 23, 2018, 10:02:12 PM »

my dominator taking an atropos salvo at 11000 hull and coming out the other side with 10547 hull instead of being 1hk is so much better.
The framerate is bad now, tho, which is weird.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #963 on: November 23, 2018, 11:14:41 PM »

Its been too long since I've been a new player to rate the tutorial fight's difficulty from that perspective, but I do know this: the game throws significantly harder fights at the player on a regular basis. The tutorial I think best serves a new player if it gives them at least a little idea of how things can go down and pushes them to try to get better. At the very least it signals "hey, maybe try this on easy".
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Drokkath

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #964 on: November 23, 2018, 11:38:57 PM »

Haven't played for a long while, nice to see a new update but I'm definitely not liking that 2 dock hullmod only limit, my polymath/jack-of-all-trades playstyle does not agree with it not one bit. Hopefully I can still brute force them onto my main superships like before but still it'll take a while for me to get up to speed with this game's modding again so I guess I'll stick to previous version for the time being and save my nerves for now.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 12:18:10 AM by Drokkath »
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Embolism

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #965 on: November 24, 2018, 01:17:49 AM »

Haven't played for a long while, nice to see a new update but I'm definitely not liking that 2 dock hullmod only limit, my polymath/jack-of-all-trades playstyle does not agree with it not one bit. Hopefully I can still brute force them onto my main superships like before but still it'll take a while for me to get up to speed with this game's modding again so I guess I'll stick to previous version for the time being and save my nerves for now.

Loadout Design seems like a good place to add the ability to equip more logistics hullmods (as Megas suggested before), though it's already a bit of an overloaded skill.
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errorgance

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #966 on: November 24, 2018, 03:03:43 AM »

P.S.  Found sleeper ship by chance, but the system it was in had no planet worth colonizing.  Sole planet had hazard with 250%, much too high, despite ultrarich ores.  Guess all of those people will sleep even longer.
Yeah, I've found 2 so far.  Both were in a system where there was a single Barren planet with absolutely nothing useful in them.  A bit disappointing.

It'd be great if there was some large project (200 heavy machinery, 1000 crew, 500 supplies, etc) to move the sleeper ship to a system of your choosing/add it to your fleet until you stop at a colony to park it over

Nice idea!
Though make it 10k heavy machinery, 10k crew, 10k supplies...... and 20 tugs :D

That gives me an idea for tug usage, moving wrecks to be more efficiently scrapped at a salvage yard.

Speaking of tugs moving wrecks, Shouldn’t it be more affordable and/or possible to repair ships from major damage at a dockyard?
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Drokkath

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #967 on: November 24, 2018, 03:13:41 AM »

Haven't played for a long while, nice to see a new update but I'm definitely not liking that 2 dock hullmod only limit, my polymath/jack-of-all-trades playstyle does not agree with it not one bit. Hopefully I can still brute force them onto my main superships like before but still it'll take a while for me to get up to speed with this game's modding again so I guess I'll stick to previous version for the time being and save my nerves for now.

Loadout Design seems like a good place to add the ability to equip more logistics hullmods (as Megas suggested before), though it's already a bit of an overloaded skill.

Oof! Ouch.. just looked at ship_design.skill (looked in ShipDesign.java too) and I'm not seeing an obvious way to increase the limit. I'm no coder, I can only copy and paste and more-or-less understand existing/done stuff but not make up new stuff from scratch. Adding those dock hullmods as built-in stuff on my custom ships is easier for me so I'll go with that instead as a start.

Agh, looks like weapons and ships have more tags too so porting my ship or two over is also easier said than done now. Bleh, onto to my plan C or D then; Making a new supership out of one of the REDACTEDs and call it even.

Alrighty, another edit and some lite modding later and I gotta say it ain't that bad because the new REDACTED capital ship is an awesome tool of destruction, especially the converted playable version of it I just made. Time to go full Dalek and exterminate with it. 8)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 04:35:52 AM by Drokkath »
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #968 on: November 24, 2018, 05:07:19 AM »

re tutorial difficulty:

i also think the last battle of the tutorial kinda needs to be about as difficult as what the player will encounter afterwards, outside the tutorial. but maybe the game could do a better job of setting the right expectations. i haven't played through it since 0.8, so i don't remember how it's currently worded, but some notification that informs the player of a few things prior to the battle could help:

1) this battle ahead is gonna be tough, despite still being part of the tutorial. a new player will need to use everything they've learned so far, and even then victory won't at all be guaranteed.
2) it's okay to reload, and more than once. while many players may prefer to play on ironman eventually, reloading and retrying frequently is expected for new players, and something even many veterans have to do.
3) for anyone who prefers to not have to reload too much, or who has already reloaded several times and just can't get through this battle, easy difficulty option is strongly recommended.

additionally, i think the difficulty option shouldn't be set only at campaign start, but somewhere else. probably just a toggle in the settings. that way, someone who started on normal but runs into problems in that battle can just switch it to easy then, rather than having to restart and do the entire tutorial again. similarly, if it can be changed mid-campaign, switching to easy for a time might feel less boring than setting the entire run to always be on easy.
then the tutorial can tell players to just switch difficulty in the settings menu based on how their fights go. if things get to tough, switch to easy. if later things feel a bit too easy again, can just switch back to normal.

the campaign start panel can still also have an option to select difficulty as well, so that it's easily visible for anyone new to the game, with a short note next to it or in a tooltip that mentions it can also be toggled at any point through the settings menu.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #969 on: November 24, 2018, 05:15:46 AM »

Loadout Design only has one outstanding perk, at 3.  1 is garbage, and 2 would be good if ships were not OP starved even with the perk at 3, now that campaign hullmods and Reinforced Bulkheads are more useful.  Ships are seriously OP starved.  I now consider Officer Management poor man's Optimized Assembly, and consider maxing that skill just so I do not put Reinforced Bulkheads on all of my ships, despite the added upkeep.  (More upkeep is an incentive to keep officer level low, at least earlier in the game.)  Loadout Design is an unbalanced perk, one great perk at 3 while the previous two are unremarkable.

Endgame battles seem bigger and longer than before.  I am having peak performance problems even with cruisers now in large fights, especially if an enemy battlestation is involved.  Looks like I may want to upgrade to a mostly capital fleet for endgame battles, just so I do not need to deal with peak performance.  Hardened Subsystems is only an option if my ships can afford it.  Reinforced Bulkheads, and sometimes Efficiency Overhaul, have higher priority.

Can the drop location from tech mining be changed?  Say, if I decide to grow another colony to be as big as my first and is generally a better location?

My game update:  Plopped a sixth colony as a waystation, this time, to the north of core as a base to look for that aggravating Pather base before it blows up an industry, and I have brought five capitals plus a ton of cruisers in case I need to deal with lots of death fleets and/or a star fortress.  I scoured my system map for the base in all explored systems to no avail, so I probably need to explore west of the core worlds now.  As for colonization, Planetary Operations 3 appears very attractive if I need to plop a seventh colony now.  I do not want to abandon my other waystations just yet, although I can abandon one in a pinch.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 05:17:24 AM by Megas »
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #970 on: November 24, 2018, 05:19:54 AM »

Can the drop location from tech mining be changed?  Say, if I decide to grow another colony to be as big as my first and is generally a better location?
Everything from colonies made for your personal use is delivered to the colony selected in the Custom Production screen.

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #971 on: November 24, 2018, 05:26:32 AM »

How would I do that?  I remember searching the screen and nothing jumped out to indicate drop location.  It could be hiding in plain sight for all I know.

Similarly, if faction name and stuff can be changed later, I have not found the settings to do that.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #973 on: November 24, 2018, 05:34:00 AM »

Oh, duh.  Thanks.  Like I said, hiding in plain sight.  I thought that was highlight colony to view industries and the like.
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StarGibbon

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #974 on: November 24, 2018, 06:18:49 AM »

[I decided to pop back in with a bit more insight gained as to why I, as a returning player was struggling with the tutorial battle a bit, because I think it's more useful to Alex than my original post. Please don't mistake this as me reading replies, so you might consider saving your breath on a "man you suck Im so much better than you" post. Or not. Doesn't matter to me.]


After not playing the game for what--a couple years now?--I found I maintained some grasp of the basic mechanics. Flux/shield management, maybe a lingering muscle memory for piloting.  What I had lost though was anything but the vaguest recollection of weapon merits and ship characteristics ( so many other games, so many other systems in the meantime), so I was on pretty even footing with new player on that front. I just felt under-gunned in that battle.

After failing to beat the battle several times without taking way more losses than I should have, I instead used my starting fleet to hijack another ship from the pirates on the other side of the map. I threw whatever guns I had laying around on it, and just that single ship was enough to flip the battle from uncomfortably challenging to trivial. Now on the one hand, that can be seen as a strength of the game, allowing you to use the open gameworld to find novel solutions to problems. But the tutorial does not train you to do this. It trains you to do exactly what it says, and move from mission marker to mission marker.

**I wondered why a single ship would make that much difference, so I reloaded again and took a closer look at my fleet. It turns out I had missed several weapon mounts entirely on some ships (those ship mounts are really, really small on modern high resolution monitors, which weren't a thing when the game started development a hundred years ago ). For instance, I had missed the top mounts on my two wolves entirely, leaving them empty. I threw a tactical laser on each, which made a surprising difference in the next battle. In addition I noticed several other weapon slots had better alternatives available which I had missed in the big weapons dump ( I made the mistake of outfitting my ships *before* receiving the cache of free ship weapons, which is something the tutorial will allow you to do.)  Further fights with my newly optimized fleet also proved trivial, highlighting the importance of weapon loadout.**


So this, I think, is my issue with the tutorial. There are too many *variables*.  A player can blunder into fighting both fleets at once, or only one. A player can severely bungle their loadouts, like I did.  If not paying attention, or overwhelmed with learning a new game, miss the notice about the weapons storage entirely. All these things can lead to drastically different experiences from player to player.

Now, it might be tempting for an experienced player to thump their chest a bit and think thats a good thing, that it gives them an idea of what to expect from the game, and they wont make it past the tutorial without understanding the importance of loadout, or how to find alternate solutions to problems in the game. This may be accurate, but it is still wrong headed.  You must accept the reality that this game will be sold on Steam(I'm assuming Alex would eventually actually like to sell copies to a wide audience, and this means Steam). Steam players will refund a game these days if it even looks at them funny in the first hour, because they only have two hours in which to return a game, which promotes making kneejerk decisions on refunds.


There may come a time for challenging games to beat a player with the "git gud" stick, forcing them to improve their skills to a certain level before being able to move on. In the modern era, this time in not in the tutorial.  I think variables in the tutorial should be eliminated as much as possible. Consider fixed loadouts and deployments, so the challenge level can be more carefully controlled and anticipated. A tutorial battle should be about combat mechanics or loadout selection, but maybe not both at the same time.  The player will have all game to experiment with loadout and deployment variables.  But maybe not if they get frustrated and reject the game altogether because they wound up on the wrong end of the random difficulty its possible to experience during the tutorial.

Two cents.
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