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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20); Blog post: GIF Roundup (04/11/20)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 279423 times)

Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #885 on: November 22, 2018, 10:46:47 AM »

The punishment for not being "lawful" is too little. (i.e. spam AI cores and free port)
I'm already seeing pal earning 1 mil per month with single good colony which is just ridiculous.
Of course it was super sinful: all industries with beta+ core, free port on.

it's not free. You're violating some treaties the major factions take very seriously
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Sutopia

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #886 on: November 22, 2018, 10:52:56 AM »

The punishment for not being "lawful" is too little. (i.e. spam AI cores and free port)
I'm already seeing pal earning 1 mil per month with single good colony which is just ridiculous.
Of course it was super sinful: all industries with beta+ core, free port on.

it's not free. You're violating some treaties the major factions take very seriously

And you easily defeat their expedition fleet with some patrol spamming Paragons. Size 8 market patrol is no joke.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #887 on: November 22, 2018, 12:18:36 PM »

I know that the missions are not a focus anymore, but the For the Greater Ludd one is almost unwinnable with the standard loadout. The Piranhas just can't score any hits on the Dominator, it's PD is far too good. There's an easy fix, though: replace them with Perdition bombers as the mission standard. That would even fit much better thematically, they are special luddite bombers, after all.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #888 on: November 22, 2018, 01:53:30 PM »

Well... I mean thats just kind of Piranhas. They are true 0 OP bombers and, due to their speed now slowing down fighters that escort them, they actually make the other fighters worse for being on the same carrier. As an example, I'd say Broadsword + nothing is more dangerous to everything except maybe stations than Broadsword + Piranha. You can occasionally get exceptions where the bombs hit, but generally the target needs to be flamed out, overloaded/all weapons disabled, AND stationary, as piranhas can't hit a flamed out but moving target with any reliability.
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Igncom1

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #889 on: November 22, 2018, 02:05:34 PM »

I like Piranhas they are weirdly effective en masse at pasting down a wall of hurt.

Rapid fire or AOE point defence murders the wall, but for cost there are few better at putting down that much of a death screen.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #890 on: November 22, 2018, 02:19:05 PM »

I'm getting super tired of piranhas, they're out of tune. I keep having to reload bc my mule gets clobbered by a wing of them even tho it's out of combat and has maneuvering jets.
They can't touch a cruiser or a battleship bc they have walls of flak, and can't touch a frigate unless it's been flame outted, so the bomber that's supposed to be used against large targets is only useful against the second smallest target and is almost a guaranteed kill against them at
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #891 on: November 22, 2018, 02:30:47 PM »

Perhaps I've used them wrong, and I make a point of NOT using them so I lack experience, but... I've never had them put bombs even close to a target. In the tutorial fight they couldn't line up against a flamed out Venture. I can't imagine them hitting a destroyer (and I've never seen an enemy Piranha do anything against one of my ships other than make it dodge). All the other bombers are truly effective strike ships in their own ways.
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Cosmitz

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #892 on: November 22, 2018, 02:56:30 PM »

Khopeshes and Pirahna seem to have the same downsides nowadays. I remember Khopeshes murdering everything last patch, but now, all dumbfire bombers (rocket/bomb/reaper) are kind of at a disadvantage versus homing/Atropos bombers because they just don't seem to be very good at predicting fire. Incidentally, i also have an issue with Longbows since they launch the Sabots really, really early. Carrier positioning also has a lot to do with how the strike goes, i saw.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 02:59:54 PM by Cosmitz »
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #893 on: November 22, 2018, 03:09:34 PM »

Perhaps I've used them wrong, and I make a point of NOT using them so I lack experience, but... I've never had them put bombs even close to a target. In the tutorial fight they couldn't line up against a flamed out Venture. I can't imagine them hitting a destroyer (and I've never seen an enemy Piranha do anything against one of my ships other than make it dodge). All the other bombers are truly effective strike ships in their own ways.

I actually noticed that, when I use them they never get anywhere near the target and drop like, one, maybe two bombs each.
When the AI uses them it's a screen-wide blanket that even a 0-flux maneuvering jet boost can't dodge
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #894 on: November 22, 2018, 03:14:14 PM »

Piranhas are doubly obsoleted by Khopesh (as low tech bombers - they at least hit things) and Flashes (as area carpet bombers). From my experience they miss more often than not and are worthless.

Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #895 on: November 22, 2018, 04:06:39 PM »

Well... I mean thats just kind of Piranhas. They are true 0 OP bombers
they are not 0 OP, if that's what you're saying. they are 10 OP, 2 less than Perditions.

as for balance, i actually think they are fine as they are. i used to think they're trash, as most people seem to do, but they do have a niche; they have *by far* the highest damage potential. if even half their bombs hit, they'll do more damage than any other bomber wing would do with all their missiles hitting.
most of the time, that damage potential isn't worth much, because they are so unreliable. but when they work, they *really* work, vastly outgunning any other bomber (except maybe Flashes?). so while i don't use them very often, i still do use them sometimes, and find them to be quite effective when used in the right combination and situation.

maybe they could stand do be slightly cheaper, like 7 OP or so, but i think they are fine as they are for the most part.
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Serenitis

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #896 on: November 22, 2018, 04:14:35 PM »

Piranhas have always been terrible, because they do more damage to my fleet than to the enemy. They launch their bombs far far too early, and usually either behind or on top of a friendly ship. EVERY time I've tried to use them, they have caused me immense amounts of frustration and anger.
They are the only fighter I will actively avoid using.

Also colonies: LOL
I saved 1M spacemonies and built my first colony. All I wanted was somewhere I could resupply, and hoard useless tat without fees like the game mechanics are trying to encourage.
But as soon as it starts producing enough fuel and supplies to actually be useful to me, it gets flattened by a Sindrian fleet comprised of a Conquest and approx. 30 support ships. All of which are equipped with high-end gear.
I have a Dominator, a Heron, 2 Falcons, 2 Wolves, 2 Mules, 1 Hammerhead, and 1 Shrike (plus a gaggle of transports and tankers). Which are fitted with whatever could be salvaged.

The battle did not go in my favor. At all.
Apparently they were upset because I was making machinery. Machinery which was essentially a by-product that I wasn't using or caring about.

Is there some point I'm not getting to punishing the player for even attempting to be successful?
I mean.... It makes sense from a 'reality' pov. Crush the upstart. Keep the plebs in line. Etc.
But as far as gameplay goes, it's not exactly encouraging or fun.


Fun observation: When you found a 'faction', if you have a portrait pack active any images defined in player.faction get loaded as officers in your spawned fleets. This owns.
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #897 on: November 22, 2018, 05:28:43 PM »

But as far as gameplay goes, it's not exactly encouraging or fun.
i think that really depends entirely on whether you have means to fend it off. if you had a million credits, your fleet seems quite small for that. also, now that you know enemy fleets striking at your colonies is a thing, you can prepare for next time by starting to build an orbital defense station, which can make a huge difference in battle.

also keep in mind, you don't *have* to win that battle. if it is hopeless, just avoid it. let their fleet do its thing. they'll disrupt your industry, but they're probably not gonna destroy the entire colony, so it's not exactly a "game over" state if you're unable fend them off.

my personal experience has been kinda the other opposite: the enemy fleets that tried to attack me so far were all absolutely crushed, primarily because even a tier 1 orbital station really can completely swing the battle in your favor. and even if i had let them defeat the station and land their troops, their chances at getting past my ground defenses were low. so i'm actually hoping future fleet will be larger and/or higher quality, as so far the fights against them have been a bit diappointing.
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Sutopia

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #898 on: November 22, 2018, 05:41:52 PM »

my personal experience has been kinda the other opposite: the enemy fleets that tried to attack me so far were all absolutely crushed, primarily because even a tier 1 orbital station really can completely swing the battle in your favor. and even if i had let them defeat the station and land their troops, their chances at getting past my ground defenses were low. so i'm actually hoping future fleet will be larger and/or higher quality, as so far the fights against them have been a bit diappointing.

Well with pre-RC10 when multiple factions can sit their ass on your station, it created much epic-er battle fighting against 6~8 HUGE fleet and blowing up HUNDREDS of warships in one single battle, including over a dozen of capitals.  

The thing bothering me now is, why defending personally can cause rep drop while my AI handling doesn't?
More hilariously, I tried joining battle without deploying single vessel, just to watch the gorgeous firework created by my patrol/station vs super fleets, and I'm receiving rep drop.
Seriously? I'm just frekin watching. Now I'm paying 3 rep for every firework show?

IMO just apply something like -3 or -5 rep when player did not avert the expedition and do not apply any rep penalty when defending against them. It's especially annoying when they send fleets in waves and forcing you to chain-battle = chain-drop-reputation. It simply feels bad.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 05:43:58 PM by Sutopia »
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Cosmitz

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Re: Starsector 0.9a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #899 on: November 22, 2018, 06:05:35 PM »

But as far as gameplay goes, it's not exactly encouraging or fun.
i think that really depends entirely on whether you have means to fend it off. if you had a million credits, your fleet seems quite small for that. also, now that you know enemy fleets striking at your colonies is a thing, you can prepare for next time by starting to build an orbital defense station, which can make a huge difference in battle.

I think the bigger point is how the transition goes. I agree with Alex that Colonies fill the spot of the 'end-game' of Starsector, but it just seems like it's relatively /easy/ to set-up a colony now when you're entirely not in a position to maintain it, let alone defend it. There's also the issue with no 'small' expeditions/Raids (balanced for the 'risk' you pose), the first basic one even from Pirates being relatively a mid-late game fleet. There's also the matter of how colonies as they are now, optimal gameplay dictates that it's not only counter-productive, but anti-play to 'live'/grow alongside your colonies, and when you do plop one down, within two months it should be entirely maxed out, having thrown a good million or so at it, and 20 hours of exploration loot before hand at it.

It's just easy, middling around in Starsector, to end up in that position where you can do something and it's fun and it's new gameplay oppourtunities, but you don't take them because the game is 'rigged' to punish you. Not designed per se mind you, just for the moment, it seems like a red-herring proposition.

And yes, you can abandon colonies and yes, there is room to make mistakes and come back from them, colony-wise, but it's also equally easy to invest a lot into them, and end up fleet-less, colony-less, -200k in the hole, -repped with everyone and basically in a situation where starting a new save would probably be smarter.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 06:12:59 PM by Cosmitz »
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