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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: UI too small  (Read 9263 times)

Hessu

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UI too small
« on: April 10, 2018, 04:59:14 AM »

Is there some way to make the UI bigger? I bought a better monitor and now i'm playing in 2560x1440 and the UI is too damn small.
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Alex

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 07:38:13 AM »

Hi - sorry about the trouble! I'd recommend playing in fullscreen mode at a lower-than-native resolution. Anything I might reasonably do codewise to address this would basically amount to the same thing but with worse performance.

(Edited in light of Dark.Revenant's comment.)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 11:47:43 AM by Alex »
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 11:38:28 AM »

Isn't 720 not supported?
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Alex

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 11:48:35 AM »

You're right - I got a bit mixed up; edited my reply. Thanks for pointing that out!
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TaLaR

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 12:01:39 PM »

Game looks alright at 3440x1440 to me (sure fonts are small, but it's not like I really need to read them - most of the time I already know what's written there).
Being able to zoom out really far is nice and outweighs drawbacks of small fonts to me.
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Hessu

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 03:24:06 AM »

I changed the resolution to lower and it's ok, but would like to use the bigger res. Or then again I could go and get myself glasses ::)
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TJJ

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2018, 03:31:13 AM »

Game looks alright at 3440x1440 to me

On a 3 metre projector screen, or a 1.5 inch smart watch?  ;D

It's PPI that matters, not resolution.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 12:53:17 AM by TJJ »
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c plus one

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 06:58:11 PM »

Game looks alright at 3440x1440 to me (sure fonts are small, but it's not like I really need to read them - most of the time I already know what's written there).
Being able to zoom out really far is nice and outweighs drawbacks of small fonts to me.

I agree that a vastly greater extent of zoom is very nice, but what about everyone who doesn't have all of the in-game text memorized?  ???  
I certainly haven't.

For my part, I happen to find the poor resolution of the game's UI to be a constant irritant on either of my dual 2560x1440 monitors, and I loathe running any program (game or otherwise) in fullscreen mode.

1440p monitors have been available since at least 2009 (nine years ago!), and at this late date they're now mainstream. Probably not dominant, but clearly mainstream (especially outside of niche gaming interests). What about all of the new players whom all of us here earnestly hope will be purchasing Starsector after it attains the golden version of 1.0? They're definitely not going to have all of the in-game text content memorized. No one can reasonably expect the majority of them to "enjoy" being de facto forced to run fullscreen on current displays and then down-rezzed in order to keep Starsector's small font sizes even partially convenient.
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jupjupy

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 08:19:13 PM »

I too would recommend a "UI Scale" slider in the options, though I have no clue how hard to implement that would be for Alex and co.

Perhaps just a few presets, like Small, Medium, and Large?
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 08:47:28 PM »

I too would recommend a "UI Scale" slider in the options, though I have no clue how hard to implement that would be for Alex and co.

Perhaps just a few presets, like Small, Medium, and Large?
I'm pretty sure that with how old the version of Open GL Alex is using, (1.1 IIRC) UI scaling on the fly like that is gonna be a pain and a half to code in
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Alex

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2018, 09:33:11 PM »

Yeah, there's basically no way in terms of effort. It'd be implementing/testing/maintaining multiple sets of UI code and assets, more or less, and keep in mind that UI is at least half the total coding work, probably more. And it's not just UI; the rest of the game doesn't support resolutions that high either. E.G. combat view distance, or just basic stuff like how big ships/fleets/planets/etc look at default zoom levels, and so on. There's a reason games get entire HD re-releases (and look at how many times it goes extremely poorly when it's done in a low-effort way); it's just an enormous amount of work.

The most I could see maybe doing at some point would be screen scaling in windowed/non-fullscreen mode, similar to how things work when you run fullscreen at a less-than-native resolution. But since that's a workaround, and doing that in the code is still fairly troublesome for various reasons, I don't see taking that on any time soon, either.

I mean, I wish there was a button I could push to magically support whatever resolutions and UI scales and so forth, but that's just not how it works.
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xenoargh

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 03:34:17 PM »

Hmm.  Maybe the right-est answer is to target the areas that are most mission-critical.

1.  The display of Hard / Soft Flux on the player's ship in combat, and which weapon group's selected.
2.  The display of Fuel use when traveling.
3.  The full-screen UIs (Station UI, Refitting) ought to be able to scale dynamically.


I think the first two are the biggest issues for new players, if they're at high resolutions; having to look at teeny UI elements while in the middle of action is probably not good for situational awareness.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 12:48:45 AM »

The 1.0 release will for sure, definitely, need to have some form of screen scaling, or the refunds will swarm in.  People are generally willing to accept a sub-native resolution.  People are not willing to accept the game being uncomfortable to look at.  Screwing with the screen’s native resolution is just not very fun either.

For maximum compatibility, you’ll probably want to implement a scaling filter that handles 1.5x UI scaling reasonably well.  Another option is to swap the UI rendering over to a different target so you can apply a scaling factor to it independently from the actual combat engine.  These user-experience benefits are indeed a huge effort, but honestly you’ll get a huge reward from doing so.
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xenoargh

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 10:33:41 AM »

Quote
swap the UI rendering over to a different target so you can apply a scaling factor to it independently from the actual combat engine
I thought about that one.  I think that's going to be a huge piece of work, given how it's functioning right now; it'll have scaling artifacts, etc., as well, given that it's dependent on pixel-perfect UI art elements.  This is a major problem to get around.

I'm willing to spend some time developing an alternative combat UI that we can run that doesn't have the scaling issues, keeping certain elements scalar to screen size.

Problem there is largely that players will be forced to turn the UI on/off contextually, I suspect; I doubt if I'll be able to detect the state changes correctly.  I have no idea how long it'll take to write, of course, but I suspect not too bad, for the basics, like aiming guides, a Flux meter, etc.
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xenoargh

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Re: UI too small
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 12:01:32 PM »

OK, I've taken a brief look.  Looks to me that:

1.  The current combat UI element that handles Flux / Hull (the widget just off of the ship) could be rescaled based on screen footprint without serious issues.

2.  The aiming guides don't scale well at all.  At 1600/1200, they're pretty hard to see and at high zoom, they're obliterating details.  This is a tricky one.  Maybe have the active guide pulse gently into out of transparency, so that it's easier to see?

3.  The bottom-left UI can probably be rendered to an element and scaled, but it's quite a lot of screen already.  

How much of the information needs to be in that corner?   Is all the text really necessary?

Can't the ship-damage display be moved to the top-left corner and the text scroll be moved to the center?  What about the complex UI listing system for all of the nerf/buff?  I feel, pretty strongly, that when all of the complex mechanics need all this space to be explained, maybe it's time to think about whether or not to allow users to selectively turn it off.

I tend to not notice the sheer clutter at this point, but I'm sure newbies feel overwhelmed, and at high resolutions, they're probably squinting a lot (and dying as they lose focus).

The nerf/buff UI, in particular, feels like maybe it could be an element that minimizes unless something has changed recently.  Maybe, at the start of a battle, flash it centrally, then tuck it away unless conditions alter substantially?

4.  The System timer bar should probably be on the central widget, rather than down on the lower-left UI.  It's that important.  I think weapon reloads for anything that takes more than 1 second to reload could be there, too (average the values or just display the weapon that's closest to reloaded, maybe).

5.   I'm really not sure why we need a complete breakdown of all of the weapons in each Group.  We set the Groups up, after all, and we should know what's where.  At the very least, there's something that I'd definitely make an optional display to free up space.  At the very least, hide it until we switch Groups.

6.  The weapon refire timer UI feels like it could be way smaller.  Perhaps weapons should get a short abbreviation string, limited to 5-6 characters, so that it can be compacted?

7.  The ship damage display only needs to render briefly when we're actually taking hits, to actively inform players that they're taking damage and how it's impacting their Armor, etc.  It can get moved to just-below the Command Points / Deployment Points display (but, frankly, why do we need those on the main combat UI at all, when we spend those points in the Tactical Command UI?).



All of this would free up space, de-clutter the UI and allow for scaling without being a total dumpster fire, I think.  Most of this involves moving elements, or not drawing them unless <some event>, rather than writing whole new systems, too.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 12:04:11 PM by xenoargh »
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