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Author Topic: Full AI Weapons Control  (Read 7532 times)

JDCollie

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2018, 11:40:10 PM »

The always empty weapon group 6 appears to be supported by the game, but Starsector lacks a keybind for switching to it. Setting the weapon group through the modding API seems to work perfectly.

Here's a tiny utility mod adding a keybind for it. Pressing 6 will deselect all weapon groups.

Hopefully vanilla adds a keybind for the next version, because as others have said, handing over full weapons control to the AI can be very useful at times. :)
You are a lovely individual, thanks again!
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Tartiflette

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2018, 02:19:19 AM »

I remember several threads about that very subject were people always claimed that selecting a "6th" weapon group would let all the others in AI control, and every time it turned out to be false. It guess it illustrates well how difficult it is to debunk common knowledge falsehoods.
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Alex

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2018, 07:55:07 AM »

There were only 4 weapon groups at one point; then there were 5.

Hopefully vanilla adds a keybind for the next version, because as others have said, handing over full weapons control to the AI can be very useful at times. :)

I think this is just a case of a working failsafe for a non-existent group being selected.


As far as this vs what the OP is asking for, I think there's an important distinction here. Setting everything on autofire is not the same as giving the AI full weapon control. If you set everything on autofire and just focused on piloting/shields, it would perform extremely poorly - you'd flux out quickly, and it would dump all missiles instantly.
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Megas

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2018, 08:06:39 AM »

It is for few ships like Odyssey (or Paragon) where it is a good idea to focus-fire the big guns at one target, but for times when the ship gets swarmed by lots of little things, it is useful to select an empty weapon group and let the AI use each turret (and all weapons) independently.  This is only possible if at least one weapon group is empty.  If all five groups are used, this is not possible.  Because of this, it is imperative that group 5 is always empty for every ship.  Enabling 6 allow all five groups to be used without killing option of AI control of all weapons.
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xenoargh

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2018, 09:13:24 AM »

This makes me want to revisit building an Omni shield AI for players; that can’t be too hard, other than overriding the control inputs. 

I think that’s a real need; the tank controls are just a bit too much when both shields and weapons are there, especially when using the mouse steering mode.  I’ve lost count of how many times a Conquest build doesn’t work because the weapons can’t be focused because the shield needs to be elsewhere (for example, taking out a wounded Dominator that’s flanked while tanking hits from an Onslaught).
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TaLaR

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2018, 10:09:05 AM »

This makes me want to revisit building an Omni shield AI for players; that can’t be too hard, other than overriding the control inputs.

I think that’s a real need; the tank controls are just a bit too much when both shields and weapons are there, especially when using the mouse steering mode.  I’ve lost count of how many times a Conquest build doesn’t work because the weapons can’t be focused because the shield needs to be elsewhere (for example, taking out a wounded Dominator that’s flanked while tanking hits from an Onslaught).

Yeah, optimal player behavior here could be switching current group to auto (and selecting empty one, while targeting Dominator) -> use mouse to control shield -> disable auto on previous group, re-select it once crisis has passed. All while using tank controls.

Maybe doable as exercise in manual dexterity, but not something I can reasonably do in normal play... Though it looks like a rather nice idea for macro. Need to try it sometime later.
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Techhead

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2018, 05:35:32 AM »

As far as this vs what the OP is asking for, I think there's an important distinction here. Setting everything on autofire is not the same as giving the AI full weapon control. If you set everything on autofire and just focused on piloting/shields, it would perform extremely poorly - you'd flux out quickly, and it would dump all missiles instantly.

Having seen builds shared by various players... flux-neutral builds (or as close to flux-neutral as possible) remain popular. Omitting missiles to spend more OP on other things is not as common, but nowhere near unheard of.

I think they're generally dumb builds unless one's doing things like Grav Beam cheese, but if they don't want to utilize their flux bar offensively, that's their decision.
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Megas

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2018, 05:40:38 AM »

I think they're generally dumb builds unless one's doing things like Grav Beam cheese, but if they don't want to utilize their flux bar offensively, that's their decision.
I think it is mostly for AI benefit.  AI is terrible with flux-intensive loadouts.  AI does much better with (close to) flux-neutral loadouts.  The main battle is winning the flux war, and the AI cannot do it if it kills itself with horribly flux inefficient loadout.
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Eji1700

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2018, 07:29:53 AM »

There were only 4 weapon groups at one point; then there were 5.

Hopefully vanilla adds a keybind for the next version, because as others have said, handing over full weapons control to the AI can be very useful at times. :)

I think this is just a case of a working failsafe for a non-existent group being selected.


As far as this vs what the OP is asking for, I think there's an important distinction here. Setting everything on autofire is not the same as giving the AI full weapon control. If you set everything on autofire and just focused on piloting/shields, it would perform extremely poorly - you'd flux out quickly, and it would dump all missiles instantly.

There are designs where I want it to do exactly that, but will pilot the ship because I want it to do that from a specific angle (and thus holding fire until the right moment is important).  I've made alpha strike builds that I really wish I could just have on "hold fire" and "nuke everything" modes once I pilot them into position, since the extra click is pointless for such a build.  Ditto on certain laser boats or other ships.

Most obnoxiously, carriers.  I like piloting carriers like the mora, but especially early game when I can't afford the build I want, I usually wind up with weaponry I want to always fire.  I still want to pilot the ship so it doesn't get to far away from the fleet and so it gets all my characters "piloted ship only" bonuses, but I really don't want to be forced to remember to spam fire that one turret or salamnader that I couldn't put on autofire.
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Alex

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2018, 08:42:28 AM »

Having seen builds shared by various players... flux-neutral builds (or as close to flux-neutral as possible) remain popular. Omitting missiles to spend more OP on other things is not as common, but nowhere near unheard of.

Feels like that's also where you don't need all five groups nearly as much.

There are designs where I want it to do exactly that, but will pilot the ship because I want it to do that from a specific angle (and thus holding fire until the right moment is important).  I've made alpha strike builds that I really wish I could just have on "hold fire" and "nuke everything" modes once I pilot them into position, since the extra click is pointless for such a build.  Ditto on certain laser boats or other ships.

Most obnoxiously, carriers.  I like piloting carriers like the mora, but especially early game when I can't afford the build I want, I usually wind up with weaponry I want to always fire.  I still want to pilot the ship so it doesn't get to far away from the fleet and so it gets all my characters "piloted ship only" bonuses, but I really don't want to be forced to remember to spam fire that one turret or salamnader that I couldn't put on autofire.

Just to make sure you're aware: if you have 4 groups or less, you can select an empty group and all your other ones will autofire. For builds like you're talking about, this seems pretty much ideal.


That said, it occurred that there's a fairly easy workaround for this on my end, without adding new controls. Made it so that if you turn autofire on when a group is already selected, it will autofire. Re-selecting the group will enable the override. Basically, the most recent action - selecting the group to take manual control of, or turning autofire on - will take priority.
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Megas

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2018, 08:54:56 AM »

What will eat up weapons groups is varying missiles, especially on ships with launchers all over the place.  I easily reach five groups with missile boats.  Apogee is another weird ship.  Aside from two weird missile mounts, it also has the bow with badly mismatched mounts that is hard to match ranges with.
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JDCollie

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Re: Full AI Weapons Control
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 11:40:41 PM »

That said, it occurred that there's a fairly easy workaround for this on my end, without adding new controls. Made it so that if you turn autofire on when a group is already selected, it will autofire. Re-selecting the group will enable the override. Basically, the most recent action - selecting the group to take manual control of, or turning autofire on - will take priority.

Awesome! A very fluid quality of life solution. (I appreciate taking the time to look into this)
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