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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production  (Read 61336 times)

jupjupy

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #150 on: February 20, 2018, 11:09:42 PM »

Surprisingly, managed to miss out this post.

Another one very well done, though! And one I am certainly highly interested about.

Most of my questions have been answered by reading all 10 pages of this thread so far, but...

If colony/outpost capture will be in game, how will the production work in such a case? Will captured shipyards gain immediate access to the player's current blueprints but not those of the previous faction? Do non-player factions even use blueprints in the first place, or is it simply by faction 'ships' they have access to?
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #151 on: February 21, 2018, 05:43:07 AM »

Will we be able to stack stuff like corrupted nanoforges to get better quality ships or will it be one per type or one item total?
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Goumindong

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #152 on: February 21, 2018, 11:13:19 AM »

But here it might feel a bit weird, especially if the "gathering point" is far away from your production centers

One thing you could do would be to have a ship production center that would stock ships to a certain level and then pay shipping costs to bring the ship there. The “shipping” would be what was “rushed” rather than the production.

This would also have the side effect of making long resupply points potentially less efficient than short ones.
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Zhentar

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #153 on: February 21, 2018, 11:47:30 AM »

Yep, makes sense. This should be pretty much covered by stocking a few replacements for what you're using ahead of time, though; I wouldn't imagine a "rush order" would be able to crank out a bunch of ships instantly in any case.

My biggest concern with a self-managed stockpile would be making sure I actually have the right things stocked; in a large fleet there can be lot of hulls and armaments to keep track of. Being able to order a variant instead of a hull and a list of weapons could help a ton, and would be quite convenient in general. Being able to order weapons to be built from the refit screen could be helpful as well.

Hmm, I do see what you mean. Another way of looking at it - which doesn't go against what you're saying, really, just another perspective - is that if you're relying on a +1 burn difference to run away or chase something down, that's often indicative of something else having gone wrong in the first place. I.E. if you're cruising on Sustained Burn at a near-tangent to likely hostiles, you're not dependent on +1 burn. Likewise if you're going dark and moving carefully. And for chasing enemies down, sneaking up, using an Interdiction Pulse, and then E-burning is a hard-to-avoid combo. Finally, enemies tend to come to you unless you're chasing small fry for some reason.

In the context of degraded engines engines specifically, sneaking up isn't usually a practicable strategy. Although I've never had much luck with that strategy anyway, the few times I've tried... Don't get many opportunities to practice it, though, because it's almost never viable for me - either I'm in/around a colonized system, hunting bounty targets, in which case I can't turn off my transponder without *** off allies, or I'm exploring the outer systems and the supply cost of e-burning is too risky.
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Alex

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #154 on: February 21, 2018, 12:17:53 PM »

If colony/outpost capture will be in game, how will the production work in such a case? Will captured shipyards gain immediate access to the player's current blueprints but not those of the previous faction? Do non-player factions even use blueprints in the first place, or is it simply by faction 'ships' they have access to?

Other factions use blueprints, and ship production is based on the faction controlling the market. There'll probably be a bit of nuance as far as, say, "independent fleet spawning at other-faction market"; still working through some of these.

Will we be able to stack stuff like corrupted nanoforges to get better quality ships or will it be one per type or one item total?

You can only install one, yeah.

One thing you could do would be to have a ship production center that would stock ships to a certain level and then pay shipping costs to bring the ship there. The “shipping” would be what was “rushed” rather than the production.

This would also have the side effect of making long resupply points potentially less efficient than short ones.

Yeah, makes sense, but that much detail is too fiddly for my liking, if that makes sense. I'd sooner just have a rush order insta-produce things, no questions asked - at least that's simple and doesn't add hard-to-convey/learn/interpret behind-the-scenes mechanics...


My biggest concern with a self-managed stockpile would be making sure I actually have the right things stocked; in a large fleet there can be lot of hulls and armaments to keep track of. Being able to order a variant instead of a hull and a list of weapons could help a ton, and would be quite convenient in general. Being able to order weapons to be built from the refit screen could be helpful as well.

While you can't order a variant, the hulls you produce do come equipped with something; it picks a random variant and then autofits with what's available. The idea is to reduce the amount of hassle if you just want to bulk up your fleet and don't particularly care about the specifics.


In the context of degraded engines engines specifically, sneaking up isn't usually a practicable strategy. Although I've never had much luck with that strategy anyway, the few times I've tried... Don't get many opportunities to practice it, though, because it's almost never viable for me - either I'm in/around a colonized system, hunting bounty targets, in which case I can't turn off my transponder without *** off allies, or I'm exploring the outer systems and the supply cost of e-burning is too risky.

Yeah, fair enough. In vanilla, anyway, it's mostly applicable if you're trying to deal with a named bounty that won't fight, or if you're sitting in ambush somewhere. The "E-burn costs no CR" skill effect is a big consideration here, too. Though if you're trying to engage a stationary target, a Sustained Burn can do the job too.
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Thaago

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #155 on: February 21, 2018, 02:06:24 PM »

...
On Restoration vs Production: One thing that just occurred to me... is that if restoring D-hulls remain expensive there no longer exists much point to restoring any ship you can replace. Scuttle it, pocket the resources, and bang out a new one. Obviously... this doesn't apply to ships you lack blueprints for, but for anything else it just feels wasteful. Plus a bit of busy-work for the player as you recreate the old loadout on the new ship. My thought on this: Noticeable discount on restoring hulls you have the blueprints for. Makes a certain amount of sense with "let's see if we can figure out how to put this back together" versus "I know exactly how this goes together, I just need the parts".

I actually like this, because it matches the in game existence of ship graveyards: the major factions already do it!
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ahrenjb

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #156 on: February 27, 2018, 02:01:54 PM »

Alex, these lasts several blog posts have got my hype pumped, not to mention the forum and Twitter activity. I've been lurking increasingly heavily as the buildup to the new release drops, and I don't think I've been as excited for an update since we got our first glimpse of Corvus. At this point, most all of the nitpicks I've had about features or changes in the past have proven to be good game design decisions in the larger scope of the final product. It's refreshing to take a step back in this age of early access and community involvement, and just enjoy watching an artisan at his craft. Following the development of Starfarer *ahem* Starsector, has felt like watching one of the old masters work a mammoth monolith of stone. The true form of the work being slowly revealed as the stock is carved away, the contours expressing themselves first as roughly hewn geometry, only later resolving into the flowing and lifelike form of a genuinely inspired piece.

All that tripe aside, looking forward to playing the new build. When its ready, of course.
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Alex

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #157 on: February 27, 2018, 02:42:00 PM »

I actually like this, because it matches the in game existence of ship graveyards: the major factions already do it!

Hah, nice, that makes sense :)

Alex, these lasts several blog posts have got my hype pumped, not to mention the forum and Twitter activity. I've been lurking increasingly heavily as the buildup to the new release drops, and I don't think I've been as excited for an update since we got our first glimpse of Corvus. At this point, most all of the nitpicks I've had about features or changes in the past have proven to be good game design decisions in the larger scope of the final product. It's refreshing to take a step back in this age of early access and community involvement, and just enjoy watching an artisan at his craft. Following the development of Starfarer *ahem* Starsector, has felt like watching one of the old masters work a mammoth monolith of stone. The true form of the work being slowly revealed as the stock is carved away, the contours expressing themselves first as roughly hewn geometry, only later resolving into the flowing and lifelike form of a genuinely inspired piece.

All that tripe aside, looking forward to playing the new build. When its ready, of course.

Oh, jeez, thank you! I'll do my best to deliver :)

(I will say I've also been feeling more and more like things are taking shape - super excited about that, myself!)
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Histidine

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #158 on: March 09, 2018, 07:02:40 PM »

Random nonserious idea that people on Discord nevertheless seemed to like:

Ships the player sells to a market should be randomly incorporated (one-off) into a fleet spawning from that market.

Not because this would be a practical way to manipulate patrol composition or anything, but I want to be able to sell a Paragon (D) I just salvaged somewhere to the open market, and make some lucky NPC commander's day and see that my baby found a good home.
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