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Author Topic: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production  (Read 62039 times)

David

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #105 on: February 14, 2018, 10:39:31 PM »

Also, whats this Paladin PD system weapon I see? Rework of the Guardian?

*code orange alarm goes off in Hegemony COMSEC field office*

The supervising colonel scans the datanet logs pulled by the breach algorithm (sub-gamma, of course). Key words glow in accusing red blocks; his face hardens. "Dispatch clean-up immediately."
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Igncom1

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #106 on: February 14, 2018, 10:42:35 PM »

I personally think that 14th ships (and similar things) should not be able to be constructed by the player. Fitting lore wise, and also making it so that maybe some faction ships can only be bought and scavenged, not manufactured by the player creates consequences for choices made.

Wasn't most of the really good 14th fleet stuff lot during the first AI war? I suppose you could find some of it out in the dark corners of the sector guarded by things that aren't supposed to exist any more. Assuming you live that long!
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Thaago

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #107 on: February 14, 2018, 11:04:17 PM »

Also, whats this Paladin PD system weapon I see? Rework of the Guardian?

*code orange alarm goes off in Hegemony COMSEC field office*

The supervising colonel scans the datanet logs pulled by the breach algorithm (sub-gamma, of course). Key words glow in accusing red blocks; his face hardens. "Dispatch clean-up immediately."


<3 You guys are great.
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Megas

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2018, 05:03:38 AM »

I think the XIV hullmod description says something that it was made with pre-collapse technology.  If so, that does not necessarily mean the ship itself was pre-collapse, just made with pre-collapse tools.  Of course, Alex can change the description to fix that plot hole.
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FooF

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2018, 05:23:10 AM »

I think scarcity/rarity of certain ships and weapons will give the player incentive to continue relations with the major factions. "Yes, you might be able to find a Paragon blueprint but all things considered, you're surest bet is to ally yourself to Tri-Tach." etc. The (XIV) ships could fall into that category, as could many of the ships that require "Cooperative" relations to purchase, as a general rule. If you find a blueprint for one of them, you can circumvent the relations (and get it at half price), which is a major incentive to acquire them.

Along with the doctrine info, there's the option of "officer quality" but it begs the question if you will be able to recruit officers from your own colonies. Will their quality/cost differ from other markets, etc.

I also had the impression that metals, heavy machinery, and other commodities would be necessary to construct ships to give those items inherent value beyond credit price. Does the "Heavy Industry" that supplies the "Ship Hulls and Weapons" commodity require those raw materials? Or have I been stockpiling 10,000 Metals from my bounty hunting exploits for nothing? ;) To put it another way, without it becoming an optimization exploit, is there any reason for the player to keep less valuable commodities (metals, ore, etc.) over more valuable commodities because it will directly improve their colonies/colony management? A "short-term loss, long-term gain" kind of scenario?


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Megas

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2018, 09:07:34 AM »

I guess player can dump vendor trash in local resources or whatever so that the colony can use them up.  That is what I plan to do, instead of sticking them into storage to rot or selling.

Hullmods being locked behind factions is annoying enough.  It seems like if player wants commission, the best factions to join are Tri-Tachyon or maybe Persean League.  Luddic Church is rubbish.  The only good thing Sindrians have is cheap fuel and few A ships.  Hegemony has little more than A and XIV ships and cheap supplies.

I guess I can farm cores and turn some in so that I can undo Vengeful relations from factions I become hostile with due to juggling commissions with the best factions.  If the only way I can get the best stuff is through commission, then manipulating relations with cores seems like the (tedious) way to go.  So far, I have not bothered with that, but if I wanted all the hullmods, that is what I would do.
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TaLaR

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2018, 10:00:03 AM »

I guess player can dump vendor trash in local resources or whatever so that the colony can use them up.  That is what I plan to do, instead of sticking them into storage to rot or selling.

"Ship production is based off importing a “Ship Hulls & Weapons” commodity produced by Heavy Industry"
"The key simplification was to take one step back in terms of abstraction and express production costs directly in credits."
It seems that having access to “Ship Hulls & Weapons” commodity by producing/importing it is the only thing that matters beside money spent.
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Alex

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM »

How do blueprints work with Condors and buffalo/mudskipper/colossus mkII's? I don't imagine it'd quite make sense for them to be built from scratch like the rest of 'em?

Hacks of existing blueprints for the base hull. Presumably, such hacking is relatively common, though the results are naturally less than ideal.

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

That's what I like to hear :)

It might also require you have both BPs but many of those "base" BP's look like the ones we will start off with. Speaking of which, hey Alex, will we need both the normal AND the XIV BPs in order to make XIV ships (and other "skin ships")? Let's say I get lucky and find an XIV Onslaught BP really early but I don't have the original BP, can I still make it?

They wouldn't require a base, no - that's too fiddly for my taste; the way BPs work is zoomed out a bit to avoid dealing with just this sort of thing.

Should XIV ships even be buildable? The description specifically says it is one of the original survivors of the battlegroup....

Gameplay-wise, I like the idea of the Hegemony, being the ancient "empire" figure that they are, have some long lost technology that no one else can ever get. Lore-wise, I think at least there should be a rewriting of the XIV description

Yeah, it doesn't say that anymore :)

That said, I don't think you'd be finding XIV blueprints just anywhere, if you can even acquire them at all. But in terms of gameplay, a limited supply of any kind of hull for an AI faction just doesn't work well.


Also, will battles ever cough up BPs or "parts" of one? Or will a system be put into place for modders to add something like that in?
Another thing: Will the codex list what a ship is classified as for both BPs and Fleet Doctrine?

Probably not. For fleet doctrine, I think it's fairly clear to begin with, and the "typical" fleet display can answer any questions. For whether a BP for a ship is rare or not, I don't think that's good information to show the player.


I like the plan that blueprints are learned faction wide, and aren't stored anywhere that the player has to worry about. If they were planet by planet, bound to those planets and could be lost, that would create certain incentives. I think my initial plan would involve maximized planetary defense, maximized heavy industry/shipyards, and a few expendable resource colonies in or out-system to feed it. I'd also make sure to plant several (ideally 5+) more mostly self-sufficient colonies around the system to spam more defense and patrol fleets out to bog down attackers further. I'd gamble on the fleet output by the high end planet to provide enough backbone for the spam to make the system largely self-defending, or at least enough to manage to defend itself for me to return to handle especially problematic sorts. Also, no AI Cores allowed in that system. Even in storage. Mostly because losing all my hard-gained blueprints would be an...unacceptable outcome.

I think there'll be some incentive to centralize production in any case - but then, that's part of the reason for this system, is that adding more detail to blueprint handling doesn't really change *that* much.

Speaking of, patrol fleets. It seems that larger planets don't send out patrols to aid more isolated planets in other systems where they probably should. It'd make sense, or be appreciated depending on Alpha Core RNG doing Bad Things (TM) to colonies, to be able to have one colony send patrols to another's defense (ideally to be done automatically, really, especially with same-faction colonies in the same system). Also, on that note, it'd also make sense if the player faction goes carrier heavy, factions at war with them would increase the number of anti-fighter ships in their compositions. And vice versa for capital ships, etc. Maybe something to think about for two or three releases from now since fleet composition is going to be adjustable in-game. Granted, each faction would have 'preferred' fleet comps to default to even if they change in response to enemy doctrine, but it'd increase vanilla variety especially after the AI factions have fought a few wars with each other.

The apparent continued existence of marines alongside Alpha Core administrators doing *something* to colonies leads me to suspect that there'll be a reconquest mechanic implemented on Alpha Core colonies. Couple that with a population loss during the rebellion and an immigration malus for a time afterwards, and it'd be a proportionate disincentive to simply slap Alphas on everything. Permanently losing colonies with Alphas in play on, what seems to be sold as, bad RNG just seems a bit too harsh to be plausible to me. Or I'd find a way to mod it out, because that would just be uncool.

RESPONSE REDACTED BY HEGEMONY COMSEC


So just to be clear, ALL production is based purely on credits and time? You won't need 400 units of metals and 200 heavy machinery in a stockpile to produce an Onslaught?

I dunno, part of me seems like this would be a good way to give commodities more...oomph!
From what I can gather, I think that the Orbital Works facility turn Metals and Heavy Machinery into "Ship Parts and Weapons" (seen in recent development screenshots as the little Hound symbol in the commodity list) which is in turn converted into the faction's fleets (and players' custom orders).

I also had the impression that metals, heavy machinery, and other commodities would be necessary to construct ships to give those items inherent value beyond credit price. Does the "Heavy Industry" that supplies the "Ship Hulls and Weapons" commodity require those raw materials? Or have I been stockpiling 10,000 Metals from my bounty hunting exploits for nothing? ;) To put it another way, without it becoming an optimization exploit, is there any reason for the player to keep less valuable commodities (metals, ore, etc.) over more valuable commodities because it will directly improve their colonies/colony management? A "short-term loss, long-term gain" kind of scenario?

To elaborate a bit: right, production is based on your colonies' production of the "Ship Hulls & Weapons" commodity. That, in turn, requires that demand for metals, transplutonics, and iirc a few other things be filled. So, production requires either 1) that the colony be hooked into the economy and supplied with these (i.e. it's accessible enough that this stuff can be imported), or 2) that the resources be hand-delivered, but that's the much more tedious and less practical option, considering the relative ease of the first one.

Now, you *could* have a colony on the fringes that relies on the player for its supply. There could possibly be some benefits to this (say, being safer in some way?), but that's entirely speculative, and I'd want to avoid encouraging the player to do this; for the usual "safe and boring" reasons.

The more useful and reasonable thing to do with commodities like metals and so on (aside from selling them) would be to dump them into an industrial colony's "Local Resources" submarket. They'll stay there until needed to make up a shortfall, which could be caused by the loss of a trade fleet or something else affecting supply.


Aaah, I'm so excited for all of this!

:D

Question: will the aggression rating we put in our doctrine effect the officers available for hire? I would love to have a staff of loyal officers coming from my own colony, all trained to be fearless in battle.

Yes! The hireable officer personalities are based on the faction doctrine, but with some variance - i.e. a flat chance for the personality to be anything at all. (Possibly why they're hireable now, rather than still working for the faction...)


Another question about aggression: you mention that it effects the default, non-officered ships of that faction. Will that be true for my fleet as well? So by setting my aggression all the way up I can sacrifice wave after wave of suicidal multi-D mod ships?

It will affect your fleet, yes.
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Megas

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #113 on: February 15, 2018, 10:19:49 AM »

@ TaLaR: It is not for ship production only.  If I need trash to fuel other parts of a colony, I could dump stuff as a buffer for any shortage.  Ships and guns are not the only thing I want my colonies to make.  I also want to produce fuel and supplies.  Maybe other commodities too if they are an income generator.
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Dri

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2018, 01:30:47 PM »

Has Alex confirmed that colonies can actually provide you with monthly stacks of fuel and supplies, though?
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Megas

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2018, 02:15:23 PM »

I have not read an answer, but I imagine if we can build Light Industries and whatever the Fuel industry is called, I imagine they would produce the goodies, provided they get a supply of raw materials.  Finally, a use for the likes of Volatiles or Organics aside from vendor trash.
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Igncom1

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #116 on: February 15, 2018, 03:16:58 PM »

The colonies have a surplus store of resources that you can pull from right?

Of course the colonies might need them in case of a short fall but it should feed your single fleet rather handedly.

That said I'm a casual git, so I only play on easy for maximum loot.
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Alex

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2018, 04:30:16 PM »

I'd imagine colonies will produce some amount of supplies and fuel (provided they have the relevant industry, i.e. Heavy Industry), though I'm not sure whether the amount produced should be sufficient to keep a large fleet going, and what the opportunity cost of taking advantage of this would be.
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Goumindong

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2018, 05:08:56 PM »

Probably better to do away with quantities on stations and just have stations sell for a fixed price.

In those case you don’t even have to care about how it all works out. Your station has a production cost would you must pay, this  production cost being commensurate with other planets sales price, and income with you always receive.

The net is always the same (whether you take the raw production and use it or buy the raw production) but it’s easier for the player to understand and manage.

I know that for one hate being rich and not having enough fuel to buy to run an expedition
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Igncom1

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Re: Blueprints, Doctrine, and Production
« Reply #119 on: February 15, 2018, 05:27:33 PM »

I know that for one hate being rich and not having enough fuel to buy to run an expedition

I used to have that problem until I learned where some of the decent fuel facilities were located.

The league colony on the left side of the sector is in my opinion the best of low cost and high quantity fuel.
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