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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (DEBLOATENING Ed., 0.3.3c)  (Read 169439 times)

PainProjection

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (THE POWER IS YOURS! Ed., 0.3.1)
« Reply #255 on: April 24, 2020, 06:15:39 AM »

If stats need to come out of somewhere burn isn't it. The compromised storage idea is interesting and may be the best solution. Keep in mind lowering fuel cap and the compromised storage would be extra rough, and that all these problems and low burn speed actually increase maintenance costs and decrease map range by proxy. Also no way to fit eff overhaul because you have no logistic slots. A combat nerf may be a better solution, but that would take the ship in a different direction.

If i gonna play without Skilled-Up mod i would use yellow skill tree anyway(at least sefety procedures, recovery operations and field repairs) , because this is the whole point of playing as HMI - to utilise their nature of dirt cheap salvagable zombie fleet.

All these hullmods are interconnected with each other. My idea grown from Compromised storage, but then i realised what it cannot appear on non-civilan ships, so i go deeper in to this idea and came up to my current point of view. This -1burn connected to military subsystems, as a guy who had 2 full HMI playthroughs i understand importance of high burn and suffered a lot by using junk. I just didn't want to accidently suggest a buff to his main downside.

(My 1st had augmented drive field and been used as ultimate freighter-tanker, later i just bought another two of them, that was rediculous. In my second playthrough i go "all-in" to combat so i played with literally 5 burn - 14 on march, no regrets, this is totally manageble speed except you no longer can bounty hunt weaker fleets)

And i totally aware about 2 logistic-slot limit. Miner can use Augmented Drive Field + Efficiency overhaul or Militarised subsystems. With restored Compromised storage it should still have plenty of man power for mining operations even with +100% skeleton crew from Militarised Subsystems. But, i can't see why not just make Militarised Subsystems as Built-In because it will no longer counted for logistic hull mod limit. Also in stats you still gonna see number "5" in front of "burn" parameter. I am suggesting things, don't treat this as real changelog, i am not an author and actually i start to lose my hopes about any of these changes would ever see the release.

About EMP - This thing eats EMP for beakfast. Damage Control 2(faster repair) + automated repairs and resistant flux conduits hullmods + rapid repair ship systems makes this ship undisamable. In my vid you have your evidence - every of these 4 legions from simulation fight had thunder heavy interceptors in each of their hangar bay - 4x4x2=32 ion cannons pounding Junk simultaneously and they didn't succeed. Then again 3 duels against paragons in a row, one of them had 2 Tachyon Lances, other had 4...

I am not okay about the fact what i can use 8 Junks in my fleet and have to see 32000 16000 16000 numbers in left-bottom corner of my screen. Man this is to much logistic stats. BTW here is perfect officer for them, almost the full potential of hullmeta, at least it had all important skills: https://i.imgur.com/yC9dQqS.jpg
While i create loadouts i always test it in hands of AI, thats actually what jumpstart this whole hullmeta idea, because AI [no words in the world can discribe my dissapointment] if they don't have "shield bypass" hullmod on their Junk
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 07:16:29 PM by PainProjection »
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PainProjection

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Tweaks Ed., 0.2.2g)
« Reply #256 on: April 24, 2020, 12:17:35 PM »


He posted a 'kek' video that showcases how terrible the AI is in fighting. Against ships that don't have EMP to shut down that unprotected, shieldless disaster.



I also forgot to mention something important considering the Junkers. The Rapid Repair system is i think their weakest point gameplay wise. It tends to completely invalidate EMP, flameouts and hullmods that are supposed to protect/repair against malfunctions. It's like a whole part of the game mechanics doesn't apply to them, which is a shame. I think they could become much more interesting with other systems, even simple ones like burn drive (which would help against kiting too). And it's not like they can't afford to add Automated Repair Unit to compensate for the loss of RR either.

The whole Junker fleet concept is fun, but the piloting is very similar from one ship to another because of RR (with a few exceptions), and it can become a bit boring after a while. I personally wish to see something more interesting in that regard.



I do think SOMETHING needs to be done about EMP/weapon damage, as making it outright immune is probably the source of many of these problems. Without that protection EMP will destroy them, but maybe something that precludes other EMP resistance would be good and rapid repairs could instead put a cooldown on having weapons disabled, so it still resists EMP like anything else building for it, but can't be locked forever by EMP. That way it could still be hit with EMP for plays but not shut down entirely.


"Rapid Repair" is not the problem. EMP can be effectively mitigated by vanilla countermeasures. Here is example:

https://youtu.be/C2NIgAH7d7w

This ship don't give a
Spoiler
[close]
about Tachyon Lances, hes Hephestus Cannons didn't even stop fire for the entire lenght of the video. I really disapointed what Alfonzo just listen all of you and remove it from most of his ships, it helping, but this is not what cause this immunity to EMP.

It's like saying what Cathedral from Ship And Wepon pack is overpowered, while the core problem of this ship is vanilla 0-boost speed bonus which, for some reason, equal for all 4 ship classes, and, for some reason, uses flat bonus instead of %based, allow Cathedral, with installed make shift generators on it's auxilary modules, surf around at 80units of speed, cosplaying conquest, while being protected from damage and fire from all of his weapon mounts, which again, mostly rockets and mostly positioned outside "Core" part which abuses 0-flux boost.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 12:20:50 PM by PainProjection »
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Argonaut

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (THE POWER IS YOURS! Ed., 0.3.1)
« Reply #257 on: May 13, 2020, 02:14:45 AM »

Really enjoying HMI and it's one of my favorite mods now. The Junk ships don't give me problems as they're not particularly hard to destroy, while they're pretty crazy and fun to fly, with me not having to worry about them being destroyed.

One aspect has me even more invested: the lore! I always read the little text that accompanies a planetary market and i'm glad you put effort in yours. It's pretty immersive.  It's troubling as well, however: i am friendly with the Draco group, so i colonized that Cristalline planet in Obsidian, since it seems it's been nuked into oblivion by some other faction, too bad i can't make my own quantum liquid. Soul as well. Nothing strange is going to happen on these colonies... right?

The domain resurgents, Obsidian, Kamikaze, Opuntia and Samiel (with its haunted rings...)  are all fun and make for atmospheric exploration. Next playthrough i'm starting with HMI commission. Some story/campaign content would be great to have, if there isn't some already. A suggestion might be to spread all these interesting systems around more, right now they're somewhat conveniently bunched together, despite being so unique.

EDIT: I did stumble on some more distant places and they were great. Doesn't change what i said about Opuntia, Obsidian and Mercy being perhaps too conveniently placed together.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 01:12:56 PM by Argonaut »
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Razaghal

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (THE POWER IS YOURS! Ed., 0.3.1)
« Reply #258 on: May 14, 2020, 02:23:42 PM »

Is there any possibility to befriend the Draco Group and/or the Fang Society? I wonder since I have Industrial Evolution added, and I would like more raiders in my privateer base :>
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Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (THE POWER IS YOURS! Ed., 0.3.1)
« Reply #259 on: May 15, 2020, 07:08:38 AM »

There is a small problem with Draco and Fang bases, when using Nexerlin you cannot send a fleet to destroy the base unlike pirate bases or Kadur/Cops camps.
This can be pretty annoying as they tend to be much nastier than pirates and have to be elimated quickly to avoid decivilization.
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unit098

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (THE POWER IS YOURS! Ed., 0.3.1)
« Reply #260 on: May 18, 2020, 12:48:12 AM »

Can the nanite masses actually be used or are they just another commodity to be sold
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Alex

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (THE POWER IS YOURS! Ed., 0.3.1)
« Reply #261 on: May 18, 2020, 09:11:36 AM »

I've cleaned up the last several posts in this thread; since this is a long-term thread, I think it makes sense to do that rather than leave the posts around for clarity as to what's considered acceptable behavior.

@PainProjection: you've got an official warning and a PM.
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King Alfonzo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Choo Choo! Ed., 0.3.2)
« Reply #262 on: May 23, 2020, 10:13:46 PM »

The HMI-added resources seem to only exist to be smuggled for credits (or exported for same, if you happen to seize the systems where they're produced.)

I would really like for them to have a purpose for the player other than just getting credits, and preferably this wouldn't require building all-new industries, etc, that inevitably wind up competing with the player's existing industry slots from both vanilla and half a dozen other mods. Preferably they could be used to enhance vanilla functions somehow...

I'm glad you're having fun with the mod! I've done some experimentation with some of the features you have proposed, but unfortunately it is beyond my coding knowldge. SirHartley of Discord, who has much better coding knowledge than I, has looked into it and unless we change the core game files (something I will not do), doing these things is at the moment impossible.

Is there something wrong with the Ionos?

You were spot on Drazhya. The Ionos was defintely lacking power, which has been remedied in the next update.

Quite enjoying this mod, and the updates you have made thus far. In particular, I am very fond of the low-tech look and feel of the ships, as well as the various hazards (pun intended) you have also built in. The three hostile factions you have included with the mod are quite interesting, covering a nice niche (bio-engineering / horror) in a way that is a good fit for Starsector. The Mess in particular, is a nice counterpart to the Remnant & Derelict threats of a similar vein.

One question at this time: While the Mess is clearly intended as a hostile NPC faction, do you have any intent to expand the Draco / Fang factions in a fashion to flesh them out more and make them playable in Nexerelin?

I'm happy you're having fun with the factions! At the moment I'm still experimenting with the Draco and Fang factions, and how they fit into the experience of HMI. As I have learned recently, my mod adds well over 120 ships to the game, and is somewhat bloated. I'm actually considering cutting them from the mod altogether when the next major update of Starsector hits, or maybe splitting them off into their own mod as actual factions. I'm still thinking on it.

I do appreciate this mod, but it's the things that don't seem right that have me posting...

Thanks for the catch Drazhya, that was a big oof on my end. The Hippocampus (Draco) has had the OP restriction removed and is now a punchier missile-based ship, while the Tempest also has it's full complement of OP back. The Wolf (Draco) is supposed to have reduced OP, as it's missing it's rear small energy weapon mounts.

I was planning to come in and shower some compliments and make a big write up after using the mod (seriously playing it) for the first time and HELMUT did all that and more. It kinda put what I was going to write to shame, so I think I'll hold off for now until I've tried more of the new April 12th stuff. That being said, I figured I'd jump in on some specific things...

I agree that the Junk being burn 5 is a fairly big drawback to the vessel, as a lot of people prefer to have higher burn speeds. I feel the ship is sitting in a good spot at the moment, althought I did make a mistake at leaving its fuel capacity too high before release. That'll be fixed in the next version.

I'm glad you're having fun with HMI's playstyle. I do agree that some weapons need tweaking; the McGuyver has actually been nerfed after some conversations on Discord, the Williamson now does more damage, the Mark IV has a higher damage per shot, and the Mbeke is slightly weaker but now has a much deeper ammo pool. The Pummerer Carbine, I feel, is in a good position, as while it's weaker than the Thumper, it is better able to apply that damage to a target. This makes it very nice for Fighter/Torpedo swatting and pressuring ships.

What i suggest is actually a buff, i see Junk in two separate loadouts: Miner and Combatant...

I actually did like the idea of adding Civilian Hull to the Junk when you originally suggested it with the idea that you could switch between a civilian and military build, but then I thought about it and realized that there was really no reason to not take Militarised Subsystems. Burn speed is incredibly important for a lot of people, and if there is a hullmod that adds it, they are going to use it. And with that in mind, I felt that you'd end up drastically cutting down on the flexibility of the ship itself, reducing the number of logistics hullmods right off the bat. I feel HeartofDiscord nailed it on the head with:

Also, I'm pretty sure if it has 4 burn literally no one will use it. Keep in mind with militarized and aug burn drives it no has 0 logistics slots left. I really think most people will just see 4 burn and immediately trash can it without even considering options that point. Remember that burn as a mechanic is mostly untouched or raised/lowered by 1 in extreme cases, and its already lowered by 1 here. Every point of burn lowered is 2 at full burn and none of this has an effect on combat, which seems to the source of the problems in question.

I do agree that the Junk's fuel capacity was way too high, and I cut it down to your suggested 800 to prevent it from being a complete and total use-all.

...Okay, so I was having a great time fighting Draco and Fang... and then I got a blood harvest. Draco base 45 light-years away hitting my colonies with -3 stability and -50% accessibility. Stacking with pirate debuff. Isn't that a bit much?

That is because the station itself hasn't been killed - pirate stations do the same thing if left unheeded. Stacking with pirates is just something that can happen I suppose. For the moment I've set the standard option to have these bases turned off while I figure out the problem.

...Nothing strange is going to happen on these colonies... right?

...A suggestion might be to spread all these interesting systems around more, right now they're somewhat conveniently bunched together, despite being so unique...

Glad you're having fun Argonaut! Right now there isn't anything special about the colonies; I lack the ability to code for shenanigans and events about said colonies, althought I wouldn't mind adding them in the very distant future. And I do agree the planets are clustered a bit close together, but a lot of 'existing' space is already taken up by other mods, and I don't like the idea of spreading the systems out too thinly.

Is there any possibility to befriend the Draco Group and/or the Fang Society? I wonder since I have Industrial Evolution added, and I would like more raiders in my privateer base :>

Not really; Draco and Fang are supposed to be complete psychos who would regard the player as food. As I said earlier, I'm contemplating what to do with them.

There is a small problem with Draco and Fang bases, when using Nexerlin you cannot send a fleet to destroy the base unlike pirate bases or Kadur/Cops camps.
This can be pretty annoying as they tend to be much nastier than pirates and have to be elimated quickly to avoid decivilization.

Yeah, for the moment I've set the standard option to have these bases off while I figure out the problem. I might not even let them have bases again and elevate the factions to actual factions, but again, still sorting out what I want to do with the factions.

Can the nanite masses actually be used or are they just another commodity to be sold

As I mentioned previously, I've tried to implement them, but wasn't able to get it to work.

---

Now that that's out of the way.

NEW UPDATE, NOT SAVEGAME COMPATIBLE.

A lot of minor tweaks and fixes, mostly to just fix up one or two problems that emerged since last release, along with the introduction of two new ships.
-Added the HMI Junkship capital, the Locomotive. Many thanks to Helmut for helping with the sprite!
-Added the Prognosticator, a high-tech support ship that can slow an enemy using time dilution.
-Fuel capacity of Junk reduced.
-Small Mbeke ammo pool increased.
-Williamson now does less damage per shot, but shoots more of them.
-McGuyver now does significantly less damage.
-Mark IV Autocannon does more damage per shot
-Nerfed Marinas - it's now more dependant on its system.
-Fix for the spawning of [REDACTED]
-Removed Mulligan and Charlie from spawning in SCY and Great House fleets

With Vayra's Sector:
-Added a High Value Bounty, the Onslaught (P) - less weapons and less armour, but with two flight decks, upgraded TPCs, and the Locomotive's movement system.
-Added some uncommon bounties.

DOWNLOAD HERE.

PainProjection

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Choo Choo! Ed., 0.3.2)
« Reply #263 on: May 24, 2020, 07:56:08 AM »

Oh, that's surprise for me. I guess i have to say sorry about my previous post what even been deleted by moderator. Lack of feedback led me to such inferences.

Still think what nerfing extreme mods was a bit to much btw :) i mean, excluding modular ships like wurgandal or cathedral, only HMI was able to afford equipping this hullmod, not anymore.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 07:59:33 AM by PainProjection »
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King Alfonzo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Choo Choo! Ed., 0.3.2)
« Reply #264 on: May 24, 2020, 05:58:56 PM »

No worries! I tend to really only do feedback once I've explored it and figured out what direction I want to take with it, after some poor experiences in the past. For instance, I've changed the stats of the Berserker (Scav) an inordinate number of times due to balance issues.

The Extreme Modifications nerf for junkers came about due to some Discord Shenanigans. I'm not sure if you're aware, but on the Discord server there was recently a PvP tournement, where players would make fleets and pit them against opposing fleets in AI controlled battles. It was discovered that Extreme Modifications was ridiculously broken with carriers, which when combined with some HMI Junker hulls resulted in some very scary things occurring.

Further, I had to change the auto-repair system as I wanted the ships to have more flexible ship systems. I experimented with having rapid repair as a right click system, but if I did that the ship would never have a shield installed. So to compensate, I put a built-in hullmod on a lot of the Junker ships that reduced repair times on engines and weapons if a shield was not installed. This wasn't implemented in the Junk and Fishkill, as they still have Rapid Repair as actual systems, but for the other vessels it meant that extreme modifications suddenly became a no-brainer - you automatically heal a ton faster already, so why not? And in the case of the Junker and Fishkill, you can mitigate the malus of Extreme Mods just by activating your ship system, so why not?

To compensate for these two issues, I added the Extreme Modifications nerf to the Junker Hulls in order to make the hullmod a little less attractive. Sure, more stuff breaks down, but when combined with automated repair and the built-in hullmods/ship systems, it's not necessarily as bad as you would expect.

PainProjection

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Choo Choo! Ed., 0.3.2)
« Reply #265 on: May 26, 2020, 05:19:31 AM »

due to some Discord Shenanigans. I'm not sure if you're aware, but on the Discord server there was recently a PvP tournement, where players would make fleets and pit them against opposing fleets in AI controlled battles.

No, i kinda new in this party, i discover Starsector from Sseth review video, so yeah, i play ~9 months. In the beginning i heard about such tournaments and wondering how this is possible what every single person in community agreed with stuff what mods bring in to the game? Turns out they don't, there is definitely OP ships here and there, for example ED's creations usually are pretty overpowered, same for Pulse Industry, Mayasuran Navy etc. And i think what it was like that for years.

Right now i am a bit burnout after my last playthrough, so i can't find any motivation to spend hours of my life arguing and proving what ships are OP, what exactly makes them OP and suggest balancing tweaks. Not necessary i am right in everything, not everyone will agree with my thoughts, so i must provide at least raw footages to complement my words and most importantly, not everyone want's to hear thoughts from such noname like me. For example, i wrote a wall of text about Cathedral, but seems like Revenant doesn't open for suggestions, so i keep my thoughts for myself. At the end of the day ships not necessary must be all in line, there must be stronger ones, there must be weaker ones and define them by yourself is a part of gameplay.

Anyway, i guess your Locomotive based on Ed's Newfoundland, which already makes me excited. I hope i come back soon to play with it.

Edit: Ugh, that's an awful englandsky, i should check my writing better, sorry about that, this is my 2nd language, learned it by playing video games.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 03:24:57 PM by PainProjection »
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King Alfonzo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Ascendente! Ed., 0.3.2b)
« Reply #266 on: June 16, 2020, 03:29:16 AM »

Quick and Minor Update, Compatible with Previous Save

-Ascendente has had it's flux capacity and vent statistics improved; the ship is now a lot more frightening
-Weaver tweaked in flux capacity and deployment points to be more balanced.
-Clyde's range has been increased from 800 to 900. Damage has been slightly reduced to compensate.
-Fang fleets no longer spawn Onslaughts (as often), instead spawn Atlas Mk IIs.
-Similarly, Brighton will spawn Atlas Mk IIs as well.
-A couple of minor tweaks to the Clyde and Andersson MG sprites.

-QUICKFIX
-The Onslaught (P) HVB will be available from Prism Freeport if destroyed in combat.

Download Here!

BigBeans

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Re: [0.9.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Ascendente! Ed., 0.3.2b)
« Reply #267 on: June 22, 2020, 03:37:19 PM »

Slightly minor request but would it be possible to get the Pirate Onslaught in a rare BP? For folk like me who want to see the sector burn by giving it to the pirates?
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xenoblade1

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Re: [0.8.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Beta)
« Reply #268 on: June 22, 2020, 04:35:28 PM »


Seems to be a bit of an issue with damage and flux per second values here
I think its ment to be a meme gun lots of damage loads of projectiles and fun times I think
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connortron7

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Re: [0.8.1a] Hazard Mining Incorporated (Beta)
« Reply #269 on: June 22, 2020, 07:22:54 PM »


Seems to be a bit of an issue with damage and flux per second values here
I think its ment to be a meme gun lots of damage loads of projectiles and fun times I think
that was from 2 years ago
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