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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Integrating the "findship" command into the core game somehow  (Read 5408 times)

Igncom1

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Re: Integrating the "findship" command into the core game somehow
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2018, 12:01:25 PM »

League kinda is but then again, the Hegemony sells just as much mid tech as they do.

The League is good for the occasional high tech Medusa however, which I can't say the Hege has ever provided.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Integrating the "findship" command into the core game somehow
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2018, 12:50:40 PM »

Ack, maybe I just haven't played enough to notice such issues.  :-X
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Megas

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Re: Integrating the "findship" command into the core game somehow
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2018, 03:55:52 PM »

You look like the game as a rougelike, I look at the game more as a strategy game. And in a strategy game, I want to decide the composition of my army...
I like to look at Starsector as primarily an arcade-like shoot-'em-up, like Star Control 2 was/is.  (This is why I set game speed to 2f, and I would set that higher to 2.5f or 3f if the game could handle those speeds flawlessly.)  Arcade game lets the player pick a character (if applicable) and play until game ends shortly after.

I kinda agree with this: Getting anything that the Heg doesn't use can be a royal pain due to how FEW Military markets there are that DON'T stock low tech ships/ tech. TT has like what, four? five? markets? And not a single size 6 IIRC. Meanwhile we have the two largest factions both using low tech ships. I was REALLY hoping the League was gonna be mid tech... (Although it has been awhile since I played last so I might be wrong)
My biggest problem with the "anything that the Heg doesn't use" markets is they sometimes like to stock what the Hegemony uses instead of their specialty.  I remember times when I went to Tri-Tachyon to search for high-tech ships and found mostly midline ships that are sold everywhere else (except Hegemony can occasionally sell the superior XIVs no one else can).
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 04:04:17 PM by Megas »
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xenoargh

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Re: Integrating the "findship" command into the core game somehow
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 11:19:10 AM »

Besides, compared to a lot of other games that require "grinding" to progress, Starsector is pretty lax. It's not like you get stonewalled by this one thing you have to find to level up and continue. If you're looking for one single particular ship, then fine, I wish you luck, but it's not like the hunt for that has to stop progression of any other goals you have in the game (as with certain other grindy games).

And, if you want one more point: Finding cool and rare ships as either salvagable derelicts or in markets, and not knowing what's going to be available until you get there, is part of the fun of the game. It's the same reason people like random maps in Roguelike games and such - or even Random Core Worlds in Nexerelin. The moment you get frustrated* or lazy during a hunt for a specific ship, and feel the need to resort to "throwing money at it", I worry that you've removed that aspect of enjoyment from the game. I too look for specific ships sometimes, and if I was able to just say "screw it, I'll just pay some extra credits and get it now", I would worry that doing that would lose me a huge amount of playtime.



* Incidentally, when I say "you get frustrated and remove that aspect of enjoyment" I'm referring to how frustration often chases away enjoyment, with the implication that you might not be doing the right thing. If you're hunting for that ship and getting frustrated at being unable to find it - and as such not enjoying the play experience - then my recommendation is simple: Stop searching for that ship and do something else.
I do not agree with any of this.  Perhaps I would decades ago, but not today.

Grinding is lax compared to Diablo II and perhaps other modern games, but it still does not make the grinding any less taxing.

During the pre 0.8 days, I got sick of Tri-Tachyon shops stocking Hammerhead after Hammerhead, when every other market sells low-tech/midline.  THE high-tech faction kept selling low-tech frigates and midline junk (and Hammerhead was awful before 0.8 ), aside from the obligatory Odyssey or Paragon.  If I wanted a Tempest or Hyperion, the easiest way to get one was to attack a Tri-Tachyon fleet (either proper or pirate-in-name-only deserter), and save-scum that battle for about an hour (due to terrible boarding chances) until I successfully board it.  (The save-scum deterrence in some later versions only lengthened the time to get a ship, and it was still the fastest way.  It was much like farming Mephisto or other Diablo II drop boss while wearing mostly magic-find equipment.)

Today, I am sick of arming most of my ships with stuff I can readily find at Open Markets (Mortars, Arbalests, Mark IX) or the handful of Black Market staples (like LAGs and Pulse Lasers).

Then... when NPC factions can use as many rare ships and weapons as it wants, and I cannot, even when I have enough money to buy an entire market and then some, it gets more irritating.  Ever since 0.8 switched to ship recovery, I am able to acquire Tempests (and other ships) far more easily than I used to.  At least most ships are easy to acquire provided I am willing to suffer (D) mods on them (because restoration is very expensive).  Weapons, on the other hand, are generally harder to replace than ships.

I do not bat an eye at reloading the game as soon as a lose a rare ship or weapon, which before 0.8 was nearly everything (aside from some frigates and Hammerheads).  I call that saving time.  Means I do not need to spend days rebuilding a character.  Today, if I lose a clunker with open market weapons, I do not care and continue with the game, although I get tired of having my entire fleet be said clunkers.  As soon as I lose my elite flagship, an undamaged ship (that I cannot buy), or a ship that needs rare weapons to work, it is an instant reload.
I agreed with every word of this.  Grinding is bad game design; ideally we’d find ourselves in positions where, on Easy, we can buy / build everything we want pretty easily, on Normal, we’d find ourselves under some time pressure and unable to cherry-pick without knowing the game well, and on Hard, we’d have to find optimal paths or have unusually-high arcade skills.  From Alex’s response, that looks like how he’s thinking;  I think that’ll work.
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FreedomFighter

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Re: Integrating the "findship" command into the core game somehow
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 06:54:51 PM »

Well, that remind me how many time i wasted flying around trying to find a ship i want to beef my fleet up. I wouldn't mind if i'm allow to browse all related market on that faction and place buy order on it and has the ship store right there, waiting for me to go pick it up. I don't mind flying across the galaxy if i know i'm going to get my stuff but go there blind with just hope that it will sell a ship i want? No. Kinda reminded me on how Eve Online market work.
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