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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - *hotfix* 4/14/22  (Read 722303 times)

Ranakastrasz

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It's pretty hard to surpass the collective mastery and efforts of the mod community as one person working on a TC

If Histidine doesn't mind, in the future I will look into adding Nex-like features into this TC
Considering how you are one person, I think you are 80-90% matched in the awesomeness.
True that.
Quote
Either way, I don't think Nex would be hard to make compatible. Not like you are trying to get Blackrock or Dassault-Mikoyan compatible. Nex doesn't add weapons or ships.

The difficulty is that this mod doesnt just add stuff, it changes everything to do with game balance. While yea, you could probably easily integrate it with nex, it would be extremely imbalanced. Bring fighters from another mod here? No idea of op or not. Slow, but way more firepower, so probably act like cheap gunships.
All vanilla and Order ships have heavier armor and tougher shields, zero flux boost. Most of these weapons cost no flux. Missile spam. Etc, etc. You could do it, but i suspect balance would be difficult.
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Morrokain

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Sure, let me expand a bit. When I said content I meant to refer to the new things (ships, factions, stat changes), when I said features I meant new actions (bribing, intimidating, etc). The big draw your mod has over others is in characterization. You've got lots of flavor in your lore, lots of consistency in your ships, and lots of interaction with your characters. These, and in particular the last one, are very hard to find in regular Starsector. There's obviously only so much you can change outside of a TC, but I still long for a middle ground where you could bribe and extort other fleets and so forth in the base game (only using more generic dialog out of necessity).

Unfortunately it goes both ways; you've clearly put a lot of thought into your work, and it's really distinct... but it's really distinct. I don't have any major suggestions for you because you seem to be following a vision of the game very closely and very well. There are little things, like how Archean ships are in a whole different class of speed compared to everything else, but that's barely a blip.

Thanks for the breakdown, I appreciate the feedback! I have been thinking about it, and it may be possible to separate that portion of the mod(fleet dialogue features) into a mini-mod that could work outside of a TC. Like you said, it would probably only be the "base case" since most of the alternate flavor dialogue is for the new factions, but it would be something! I also have been meaning to get some more dialogue into Vanilla factions, so when I do that I can separate the two out. I will see what I can do once this next update is done.  :)

Considering how you are one person, I think you are 80-90% matched in the awesomeness.
True that.

Aw shucks, thanks! :) I just have a lot of passion for both coding and this game, and I myself have dreamed of some of these features from before the campaign was even available! I am pretty confident at this point that I will continue development for a long while, assuming .9 doesn't break too much. Can never be sure there, but I'm hopeful.

As for Nex: The only thing I think would be a problem is the Asgard Station. Even then, it's just the weapons that are the problem...Although it wou-I am going to stop there so I don't ramble on possibilities.

Either way, I don't think Nex would be hard to make compatible. Not like you are trying to get Blackrock or Dassault-Mikoyan compatible. Nex doesn't add weapons or ships.

I spent some time going over Nex's source code, and the biggest obstacle will probably be in the way it generates new games. It's completely rebuilt from Vanilla, so I would have to integrate my own starts into that new system, once I understand it better. Still, it doesn't seem insurmountable.

(As a side note, Nex is AWESOME. Truly a lot of work went into the features, and should I effectively implement them here... wow... it will be more than I ever thought possible)

The difficulty is that this mod doesnt just add stuff, it changes everything to do with game balance. While yea, you could probably easily integrate it with nex, it would be extremely imbalanced. Bring fighters from another mod here? No idea of op or not. Slow, but way more firepower, so probably act like cheap gunships.
All vanilla and Order ships have heavier armor and tougher shields, zero flux boost. Most of these weapons cost no flux. Missile spam. Etc, etc. You could do it, but i suspect balance would be difficult.

Well, from what I can tell I don't think those ships are actually included, just the option to include those mods. So I just need to be sure I understand and can implement the code for the features- stuff like colony-capturing, diplomacy, invasions, mining, etc.

Since I hand place many of my factions' strongholds, I would also have to build in safeguards that check for Corvus Mode, or not include the completely random map as part of the features.

Even if those ships were included, I could probably balance other faction mods' content for this TC, however, given enough time. I have a system that seems to work pretty well at this point. The 13 or so small weapons I added in last month have only needed some minor tweaks from their initial balance because I plugged them directly into established and "proven" stat ranges. Time is the main factor here, per usual.
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Morrokain

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Patch is up.

Phew, that was a lot of work to re-update the manual and document the dialogue mechanics. :) It took way longer than expected.

This is a pretty big balance pass, as well, and the update version is a little misleading as there is actually quite a bit of new and revised content for such a tiny update in the version id lol.

I also spent a good amount of time refactoring older scripts and improving existing features. I'm especially excited for bribery to be more fleshed out. The faction specific responses haven't been implemented yet, but I wan't to make sure the "base case" is working as intended before going down that rabbit hole.

Current Patch Changes: Update v1.2.1b 4/8/2018
Spoiler
Content Additions
  • Improved Bribery mechanic: Now also allows for bribery upfront- greatly increases the chances of a successful ceasefire negotiation.

          - Can include several increments of bribes(with varying levels of cultural implications per faction) to increases chances of success- the highest bribe almost guarantees success with certain factions.
          - Should the player choose not to bribe upfront and the negotations fail, the player will have a second opportunity to bribe the enemy commander at a higher cost.

  • Improved Cease-Fire mechanic: Now can successfully negotiate a ceasefire with Vengeful rep Pirates (was guaranteed to fail before) and new bribery mechanics allow for more controllable, consistent results for the player, should they really want to avoid a battle.
  • 2 new missions featuring the Hyperion-class Experimental Frigate as a flagship.
  • Added 3 new starting options for new factions- now consolidated with the former two additions under "Advanced Start".
  • Consolidated "Normal Start" options (containing the basic start options and separating the destroyer-sized starts more clearly).
  • New skin and variants for Archean Order's Wolf-class frigate.

Balance Changes
  • Peak Performance mechanic implemented back into all vessels. Timers greatly increased for all but phase ships, and ships with High Maintenance from their experimental nature, such as the Sunder, Hyperion etc.
  • Safety Overrides' Peak Performance reduction now greatly limits prolonged combat performance as a downside to balance out its benefits. OP to install reduced by 33% as a result. This will also make Pathers less annoying to fight in prolonged engagements where the player doesn't happen to have any pursuit or interdiction vessels.
  • Reduced Flux per Salvo of Trebuchet LRM by 33%, missile speed reduced by ~20% (This should make the missile less of an issue when massed and allow it to be more easily added to load-outs. It was also too powerful/useful for its tier and in comparison to the advanced Hunter LRM).
  • Nova Cannon damage increased by 25% to compensate for loss of EMP component. It should now properly take its place as a top tier PD option with a secondary assault role.
  • Added the Refit Time effect of Damaged Flightdeck to Civgrade Hullmod.
  • Op Cost of Operations Center hullmod reduced by 33%.
  • Converted Hangar hullmod now increases the number flight decks on existing carriers by +1/+1/+2 on destroyers/cruisers/capitals in addition to its normal effects. This hullmod can now also be installed on existing carriers.
  • Significant buffs to Hyperion: now has medium universal hardpoints at each wing. Increased cost and supplies to maintain/deploy. Variants adjusted accordinly.
  • Reduced flux use of Phase Teleporter by 15% and increased its range significantly.
  • Decreased Tyrant-class Battleship's turn rate by 60%. It was too inaccurate with beams otherwise.
  • Liberator Heavy Fighter has had one of its Icer Guns removed, and Limited Range Finders hullmod is now built-in.
  • Ion Torpedo projectile hitpoints reduced by 40%.
  • Changed starting variant load-out for Medusa.
  • Redistributed success rates for some dialogue features- now that bribery is a more mainsteam feature.
  • Minor tweaks to deployment costs across all ships (couple exceptions of "minor", like Scarab, that were pseudo bugs), Fleet Points in ships and across skins now properly correlates to deployment cost for calculations in some scripts.

Bug Fixes
  • Fixed description for civilian Star-Liner to include its built-in, yet poorly operating fighter bay.
  • Correctly implemented extra damage to weapons/engines from fighters- normalized this stat to 50% extra damage in order to reduce combat layer complexity. Removed EMP component from all small PD weapons.
  • Updated and corrected Tactics Manual to reflect changes since release. Also greatly expanded the manual, including non-technical documentation of dialogue features and mechanics as well as tips for tactics against certain factions for new players.
  • Fixed bug with Adamantine Consortium Comm-Relay encounter not taking priority over Tribute requests.
  • Added story text to "The Great Restructuring" mission.
  • Corrected a few scripts that had incorrect IDs for the Tri-Tachyon corporation.
  • Bribe calculation in Cease Fire requests now stems from enemy fleet strength, as intended, rather than player fleet strength.
  • Corrected fleet strength calculations in Cease-Fire and Commodity request features. It was too punishing when severely outnumbered (almost never happened).
  • Refactored code of several scripts to run more efficiently and have less redundancy.

[close]

Next up, planning on looking into Nex-like feature implementation, if possible.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:37:44 AM by Morrokain »
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Death_Silence_66

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One minor issue, the pulse laser costs too much OP for what it does. It is about as effective as the machine gun is an anti-fighter weapon and outclassed by the pulse beam against missiles. For an example of this, load up the first Condor (P) in the simulator.

The burst PD laser has the same problem, being slightly better than the pulse beam against fighters and larger missiles, only decisively superior against rocket barrages and swarms of light fighters.


If the intent was to make energy based PD worse, than the pulse beam is in need of a nerf, probably to range. If not, the pulse beam and burst PD laser are in need of re-balancing.

Edit: The void driver seems to have this issue as well, but is a passable ship-to-ship weapon. I would suggest reducing its OP cost to 5. (also, its desc. mentions losing burst damage rapidly but the stats don't reflect this.)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 06:54:12 PM by Death_Silence_66 »
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Death_Silence_66

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The iridium cannon, Icer gun, and micro repeater have issues with their sound. They are louder than other weapons and their sound effects seem to drown out other effects.

Sorry for all the nitpicking, I like this mod and want to help make it better.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 06:26:04 PM by Death_Silence_66 »
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Death_Silence_66

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More balance issues, The Graviton Beam is only slightly better than the Burst Siege Beam. It has ~50% higher sustained dps, ~100 higher damage per burst, and slightly less flux per sedond. The Burst Siege Beam has 200(!) more range, and has the ability to store charges as well has costing less than half as much. reducing the Siege Beam's range down to 800 or lowering its charge reloading rate would be a good fix.

The balance issues of the Siege Beam are most apparent on bigger ships, like the Aurora and Paragon, where they can be assembled in batteries. An Aurora with 6 Siege Beams and expanded mags obliterates everything short of capital ships.
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Morrokain

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The iridium cannon, Icer gun, and micro repeater have issues with their sound. They are louder than other weapons and their sound effects seem to drown out other effects.

Sorry for all the nitpicking, I like this mod and want to help make it better.
One minor issue, the pulse laser costs too much OP for what it does. It is about as effective as the machine gun is an anti-fighter weapon and outclassed by the pulse beam against missiles. For an example of this, load up the first Condor (P) in the simulator.

The burst PD laser has the same problem, being slightly better than the pulse beam against fighters and larger missiles, only decisively superior against rocket barrages and swarms of light fighters.


If the intent was to make energy based PD worse, than the pulse beam is in need of a nerf, probably to range. If not, the pulse beam and burst PD laser are in need of re-balancing.

Edit: The void driver seems to have this issue as well, but is a passable ship-to-ship weapon. I would suggest reducing its OP cost to 5. (also, its desc. mentions losing burst damage rapidly but the stats don't reflect this.)
One minor issue, the pulse laser costs too much OP for what it does. It is about as effective as the machine gun is an anti-fighter weapon and outclassed by the pulse beam against missiles. For an example of this, load up the first Condor (P) in the simulator.

The burst PD laser has the same problem, being slightly better than the pulse beam against fighters and larger missiles, only decisively superior against rocket barrages and swarms of light fighters.


If the intent was to make energy based PD worse, than the pulse beam is in need of a nerf, probably to range. If not, the pulse beam and burst PD laser are in need of re-balancing.

Edit: The void driver seems to have this issue as well, but is a passable ship-to-ship weapon. I would suggest reducing its OP cost to 5. (also, its desc. mentions losing burst damage rapidly but the stats don't reflect this.)

Thanks for the balance feedback! Working on looking at what you said and may release a very minor hotfix build tonight addressing the sound issues and looking at various weapons' balance.  :) (I like nitpicking btw, so no worries there!)

I'm hoping to not have to reduce or raise an Ordinance costs, since that will effect variants and require far more work. So I will try other balance levers. If it ends up seeming like the only way, however, I will certainly do it if necessary.

I'll give some more detailed responses in a bit after taking a closer look at things.
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Death_Silence_66

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One bug I found, adding the converted hanger seems to add thousands to the skeleton crew requirement.
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Morrokain

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One bug I found, adding the converted hanger seems to add thousands to the skeleton crew requirement.

What ship did you equip it on, for reference?

Edit: nvm, it's an improper calculation. Fixed for hotfix, which I will upload shortly.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 09:03:04 PM by Morrokain »
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Morrokain

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Hotfix uploading now.

I'd give it another hour or two according to dropbox.

Balance Changes
  • Increased damage of Pulse Laser by 25% (higher hit damage).
  • Reduced recharge rate and burst damage of Burst Siege Beam. Still keeps its Fire Support energy role, but damage should now be more in line with those kinds of weapons.
  • Increased number of charges of Burst PD Laser by 1, increased its recharge rate per charge slightly, and increased its burst damage by ~20%.
  • Increased number of charges of Heavy Burst PD Laser by 1, increased its recharge rate per charge slightly, and increased its burst damage by ~20%.
  • Increased charge regeneration rate of Guardian PD System by 30%.
  • Pulse Beam range reduced to 300.
  • Increased shot damage of Void Driver significantly, but reduced its recharge rate to a similar dps. Should be much more effective, especially against missiles, and more adequately reflect its description.
  • Slightly reduced effective shields of Liberator and Renegade fighters.

Bug Fixes
  • Fixed skeleton crew calculation of Converted Hangar hullmod.
  • Corrected sound issues with Ion Torpedo, Micro Repeater, Iridium Cannon and Icer Gun.
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Death_Silence_66

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The Hegemony Auxiliary Condor has 20 less OP than the standard Condor. Bug?
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Morrokain

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The Hegemony Auxiliary Condor has 20 less OP than the standard Condor. Bug?

Yup! Old stat in the skin files. Same with the Luddic Church variant. Fixed. That actually partially explains some of the issues I had with their balance in the earlier iteration. They may be tuned too high now, though we will see.
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Death_Silence_66

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The Hellcat fighter doesn't seem to require crew, and its description doesn't say it's a drone. Is this a bug?
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Morrokain

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The Hellcat fighter doesn't seem to require crew, and its description doesn't say it's a drone. Is this a bug?

Yes! Corrected min crew requirements of Hellcat, Cyclops, Liberator, Renegade and Hydra fighter.

Looking close to another hotfix tonight at this rate.  :P
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Death_Silence_66

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It seems the converted hanger hullmod only adds 1 flight deck to the Atlas despite it being a capital ship. Is this because it is also a civilian ship or actually counted as a cruiser?
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