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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Test update 5/1  (Read 230887 times)

DatonKallandor

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #585 on: January 29, 2020, 08:21:17 AM »

It uses a completely different system of balance and gameplay. TC, not just a mod. Can't compare anything in it to vanilla - because it's not vanilla or vanilla compatible.

Even how you design ships is different, with capacity being far more important, and the flux-per-second stats being almost entirely an ignorable stat. Flux-per-burst is the stat that actually matters most for example.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #586 on: January 29, 2020, 03:34:23 PM »

I can't seem to grasp this mod. Why is everything so fast, why does every second ship have entropy amplifier as its ship system, why is there a ship with 4000+ armor(LC legion)? Every weapon type (missile/energy/ballistic) has good(ish?) weapons for every type of damage making them feel homogenous. Everything has charges. Carriers seem even more overpowered than in vanilla. PD guns use no flux...

It might be that I'm just a bad player, actually that is very likely since I haven't learned much about this mod, but IMO some of the balance/design decisions seem quite questionable.

I'm sorry you feel that way and thank you for the feedback! Always appreciated!  :)

DatonKallandor is correct that this is a TC and the design balance is different than vanilla for many reasons- some of them aesthetic and some of them design changes to make other things possible. As one minor example based upon one of your comments/concerns: I don't like how- in vanilla- PD and smaller assault weapons stop firing at high flux. It feels weird to me and though changing it requires other balance changes to compensate, it was an early design goal. That is why the majority of PD and assault weapons are flux free. Longer ranged weapons are oftentimes very superior in vanilla, and so I wanted some kind of trade off there. High flux generation (to offset flux-free weapons) seemed like a good solution. Similarly with missiles, AI issues and limited ammo make that weapon category pretty niche and mostly build-specific. Giving missiles regeneration (again with the offset of high flux generation) let's them be another weapon category choice in most set-ups.

Yup, that can make things feel homogenous if the design goal is to make every weapon feel especially unique. On the other hand, I wanted to make each weapon type able to perform more roles within that category so that A) faction commission choice is more interesting in that it unlocks a lot more unique weapons- and B) there is a larger variety of aesthetics to choose from, and, if you want to focus on a weapon category- you can- without being forced into a specific playstyle. If you think about it, vanilla doesn't have to particularly worry about that concern because the faction mods fill in those gaps with their own weapons. I started this out as a TC, so I couldn't (especially at the time due to technical reasons) rely on that for this mod.

If you want to flesh out that last sentence, feel free, and I'll see if any changes are warranted. Details like: what part of the game are you in? (early-mid-late)- what is your fleet composition?- what particularly are you struggling with?, etc, will help me give you advice if you want to learn-

I don't really want to relearn the game, as it seems almost everything from weapon names to ship hulls is changed

-but if you are looking for just another vanilla experience with different ships and weapons, this mod is probably not for you. :) I will likely release some kind of balanced ship and weapon/faction pack at some point in the future, but there is a lot to get through first.

In the meantime, if that is what you are looking for, there are lots and lots of high quality faction mods out there that are very vanilla-friendly. There is also a guide on the modding sub-forum that attempts to categorize them by how close to vanilla standards they are.
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Eliteempire

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #587 on: January 31, 2020, 11:48:26 AM »

well lad dumb question, how do i get grand sector with this mod?

I've also learned via the few faction mods i've played with, it seems that they don't actually 'use' there faction's ships and default too the base game ones. Pretty funny.

Blackrock, Legacy are the two. 0 crashes but just defaults everywhere, expect there guns

check the installation method in grand sector, grand sector requires you to make changes to the vanilla game data
once you've dont that, open archean mod folder, edit the totalConversion from true to false, and voila.

i've been using grand sector in all my playthrough, it's amazing

If that doesn't work let me know just in case I broke something.

I've also learned via the few faction mods i've played with, it seems that they don't actually 'use' there faction's ships and default too the base game ones. Pretty funny.

Blackrock, Legacy are the two. 0 crashes but just defaults everywhere, expect there guns

Hmm, that should have been fixed in the current update. Are you using an older version to preserve your save?

A Tyrant generally dominates the battlespace in the hands of the player.

i got one after a bloody battle involving 2 tyrants and 1 malevolent, sadly only got 1 tyrant at the end.
i've been "hunting" that ship ever since, whenever i see them, i chase   ;D


anyway,
i took the "capital" of Sci-Corps, Directorate Headquarters, and inside there are 7 industries over the limit of 4
that's cheating  :P


**
not sure if it's known yet, i updated my game to the latest mod version, and this eldrus station thing won't recognize my fleet as having its transponder turned off.
i had a trade mission with pirates inside that station, but no matter what i do, the station still recognizes me even if i went dark...
**

 ;D

Reported Eldrus transponder issue:

Thanks for the info! I should have some time in a few hours to take a look at that. Hopefully that can be fixed without breaking saves.


Sci-Corps Headquarters:

Still planning on separating these out but don't want to break the economy too bad. I'm shooting for those changes and an additional market or two for the Luddic Church in the next update.  :)

I didn't see there was an update, I'll try it and see if the factions work now.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #588 on: January 31, 2020, 04:03:17 PM »

I didn't see there was an update, I'll try it and see if the factions work now.

If not, let me know, but removing the overrides should have done it.
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Eliteempire

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #589 on: February 01, 2020, 05:33:09 PM »

I didn't see there was an update, I'll try it and see if the factions work now.

If not, let me know, but removing the overrides should have done it.

Well I haven't had a single crash yet, and all factions are spawning with there faction designed ships. Its a nice surprise but if I run into a bug I will let you know.

 Just pain because Arch ships aren't busted anymore lol
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 08:16:50 PM by Eliteempire »
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #590 on: February 02, 2020, 11:41:47 AM »

Well I haven't had a single crash yet, and all factions are spawning with there faction designed ships. Its a nice surprise but if I run into a bug I will let you know.

 Just pain because Arch ships aren't busted anymore lol

Ah good glad to hear it!  :)

Still not finalized on the Megalith and Revenant in particular as far as strength/deployment goes, so we shall see where they end up for the next release.

Probably going to take a bit of a break though other than fixing any new bugs. I'll slowly work on full mod compatibility (as far as not crashing goes) as I'm up for it.
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Spatzz

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #591 on: February 02, 2020, 08:54:40 PM »

I can't seem to grasp this mod. Why is everything so fast, why does every second ship have entropy amplifier as its ship system, why is there a ship with 4000+ armor(LC legion)? Every weapon type (missile/energy/ballistic) has good(ish?) weapons for every type of damage making them feel homogenous. Everything has charges. Carriers seem even more overpowered than in vanilla. PD guns use no flux...

It might be that I'm just a bad player, actually that is very likely since I haven't learned much about this mod, but IMO some of the balance/design decisions seem quite questionable.

I'm sorry you feel that way and thank you for the feedback! Always appreciated!  :)

DatonKallandor is correct that this is a TC and the design balance is different than vanilla for many reasons- some of them aesthetic and some of them design changes to make other things possible. As one minor example based upon one of your comments/concerns: I don't like how- in vanilla- PD and smaller assault weapons stop firing at high flux. It feels weird to me and though changing it requires other balance changes to compensate, it was an early design goal. That is why the majority of PD and assault weapons are flux free. Longer ranged weapons are oftentimes very superior in vanilla, and so I wanted some kind of trade off there. High flux generation (to offset flux-free weapons) seemed like a good solution. Similarly with missiles, AI issues and limited ammo make that weapon category pretty niche and mostly build-specific. Giving missiles regeneration (again with the offset of high flux generation) let's them be another weapon category choice in most set-ups.

Yup, that can make things feel homogenous if the design goal is to make every weapon feel especially unique. On the other hand, I wanted to make each weapon type able to perform more roles within that category so that A) faction commission choice is more interesting in that it unlocks a lot more unique weapons- and B) there is a larger variety of aesthetics to choose from, and, if you want to focus on a weapon category- you can- without being forced into a specific playstyle. If you think about it, vanilla doesn't have to particularly worry about that concern because the faction mods fill in those gaps with their own weapons. I started this out as a TC, so I couldn't (especially at the time due to technical reasons) rely on that for this mod.

If you want to flesh out that last sentence, feel free, and I'll see if any changes are warranted. Details like: what part of the game are you in? (early-mid-late)- what is your fleet composition?- what particularly are you struggling with?, etc, will help me give you advice if you want to learn-

I don't really want to relearn the game, as it seems almost everything from weapon names to ship hulls is changed

-but if you are looking for just another vanilla experience with different ships and weapons, this mod is probably not for you. :) I will likely release some kind of balanced ship and weapon/faction pack at some point in the future, but there is a lot to get through first.

In the meantime, if that is what you are looking for, there are lots and lots of high quality faction mods out there that are very vanilla-friendly. There is also a guide on the modding sub-forum that attempts to categorize them by how close to vanilla standards they are.

Morrokain, similar to tseikk1 I was having issues figuring out the balance and choice making, it made my own decisions feel like guess work.  While finally searching for what I realized must be common issue I stumbled across your above explanation.  I appreciate the well thought out and candid response on what felt like the major pain points.  Going into the next campaign I'll give it another shot with less expectations from prior knowledge. 

I'll also keep digging for guides but if you can point me towards a good summary of the major differences or a CAQ threat I would appreciate it.  Thanks for the effort as it's a real specific itch your mod scratches in a game that was already hitting spots I almost didn't know I even had. 

Cheers,

*edit* Big oof, just found the .doc . 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 09:27:54 PM by Spatzz »
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Eliteempire

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #592 on: February 06, 2020, 12:32:58 PM »

Sup lad its me again, Really strange glitch I keep stumbling into when black market dealing and haven't found a workaround it yet in game.

When the AI heads this way too search me after I sell VAST amounts of goods at 0 traiffs, they are stuck in a 'engage or open coms' without the ability too leave without fighting them which RUINS my relationship or relogging an earlier save. I've had this happen at 2 different ports. Both were Archean order this run so far but this is a strictly allied Archen run or atleast was.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #593 on: February 06, 2020, 12:42:03 PM »

Is there a way to make the AI stop firing large, overpowered weapons with long cooldowns at enemy fighters and instead just leave that to their dozen point defense guns instead so that they can actually use their megacannons on actual enemy ships?

I know this is probably just a vanilla thing, but I thought I'd ask.  I also noticed that the AI has real trouble with the large laser tri-beam; specifically its range.  It always seems to fire it at targets that are just past its actual range.  That's the only weapon that seems to have that issue, too, at least as far as I've noticed.

Meanwhile... have you ever thought about doing (or asking someone to do) compatibility patches with various shipmods?  Because the flux system from Achean is awesome, but once other shipmods come into play they don't mesh well with it at all.  So something that bridges those mods to fit the Achean system where PD doesn't use flux and the other/new ships are further tweaked to fit into the system here better?
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DatonKallandor

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #594 on: February 07, 2020, 02:11:18 PM »

Meanwhile... have you ever thought about doing (or asking someone to do) compatibility patches with various shipmods?  Because the flux system from Achean is awesome, but once other shipmods come into play they don't mesh well with it at all.  So something that bridges those mods to fit the Achean system where PD doesn't use flux and the other/new ships are further tweaked to fit into the system here better?

Ask other modders to make extra version of their mods with every ship having more mounts and a completely rebalanced set of weapons is your best bet.
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TimeDiver

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #595 on: February 07, 2020, 02:57:58 PM »

Is there a way to make the AI stop firing large, overpowered weapons with long cooldowns at enemy fighters and instead just leave that to their dozen point defense guns instead so that they can actually use their megacannons on actual enemy ships?
If you're feeling up to some client-side (i.e. your own computer) personalized modding, adding the following:

"STRIKE, USE_VS_FRIGATES"

to the 'tags' column of the weapon(s) in question in \StarSector\mods\Archean Order TC v1.3.4e\data\weapons\weapon_data.csv, would at least minimize the wasted weapons fire (will only deliberately target frigates or larger, but stray fighters WILL absorb said weapons fire, if in the way).

As I do not use this mod myself, I cannot make the changes for you, as I have little knowledge as to which weapons need the changes to suit your needs.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 03:00:58 PM by TimeDiver »
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #596 on: February 08, 2020, 12:24:10 PM »

Morrokain, similar to tseikk1 I was having issues figuring out the balance and choice making, it made my own decisions feel like guess work.  While finally searching for what I realized must be common issue I stumbled across your above explanation.  I appreciate the well thought out and candid response on what felt like the major pain points.  Going into the next campaign I'll give it another shot with less expectations from prior knowledge. 

I'll also keep digging for guides but if you can point me towards a good summary of the major differences or a CAQ threat I would appreciate it.  Thanks for the effort as it's a real specific itch your mod scratches in a game that was already hitting spots I almost didn't know I even had. 

Cheers,

*edit* Big oof, just found the .doc .

Thanks and hope the doc helped. It's a little outdated. That's one of the things I want to take care of for the next update for sure.  :)

Sup lad its me again, Really strange glitch I keep stumbling into when black market dealing and haven't found a workaround it yet in game.

When the AI heads this way too search me after I sell VAST amounts of goods at 0 traiffs, they are stuck in a 'engage or open coms' without the ability too leave without fighting them which RUINS my relationship or relogging an earlier save. I've had this happen at 2 different ports. Both were Archean order this run so far but this is a strictly allied Archen run or atleast was.

Thanks for the report and sorry for the experience. (I thought I tidied all that up but looks like I was wrong :( ) That might be fixable in a hotfix since it sounds like a rules issue. So I'm clear on the details: it happens only while smuggling with high reputation with the Archean Order faction or were you aligned with another faction? (That's the problem when a faction matches the name of the mod- it can create a little confusion at times haha)

Is there a way to make the AI stop firing large, overpowered weapons with long cooldowns at enemy fighters and instead just leave that to their dozen point defense guns instead so that they can actually use their megacannons on actual enemy ships?

I know this is probably just a vanilla thing, but I thought I'd ask.  I also noticed that the AI has real trouble with the large laser tri-beam; specifically its range.  It always seems to fire it at targets that are just past its actual range.  That's the only weapon that seems to have that issue, too, at least as far as I've noticed.

Meanwhile... have you ever thought about doing (or asking someone to do) compatibility patches with various shipmods?  Because the flux system from Achean is awesome, but once other shipmods come into play they don't mesh well with it at all.  So something that bridges those mods to fit the Achean system where PD doesn't use flux and the other/new ships are further tweaked to fit into the system here better?

Weapons:

What weapons were you using, specifically?

If you're feeling up to some client-side (i.e. your own computer) personalized modding, adding the following:

"STRIKE, USE_VS_FRIGATES"

to the 'tags' column of the weapon(s) in question in \StarSector\mods\Archean Order TC v1.3.4e\data\weapons\weapon_data.csv, would at least minimize the wasted weapons fire (will only deliberately target frigates or larger, but stray fighters WILL absorb said weapons fire, if in the way).

As I do not use this mod myself, I cannot make the changes for you, as I have little knowledge as to which weapons need the changes to suit your needs.

First off, thanks for helping out someone who posted on this thread. I appreciate it. :)

Most weapons that fit the description NephilimNexus used already have that tag, so that ideally shouldn't be the problem unless I missed something- which is very possible. That tag doesn't prevent the AI from using the weapon against fighters if no other ships are in range and the AI ship feels "threatened" by nearby fighter swarms.

In the past, I've requested a separate tag from Alex that completely prevents weapons from targeting fighters for any reason, but I don't think he has had time as I assume that would be a little intensive to implement.

Faction Mods:

Ask other modders to make extra version of their mods with every ship having more mounts and a completely rebalanced set of weapons is your best bet.

Yeah I agree this is the only way that it would be possible. Anytime I have brought this up in the past, however, I have been declined. Most modders don't want to do that kind of work and don't want me doing it either. I'll eventually make a thread on how to do it and let other modders give their consent or submissions by posting there.

Speaking of faction mods...

I have successfully removed all the vanilla weapon and projectile overrides that would otherwise cause issues with mods like SWP that rely on or add to vanilla files. So that's pretty good news as it was a large part of the work required. (had to change about 1000 ids... even with my IDE's mass search and replace it was a considerable effort)

I still have to handle ship hulls, industries, and fighters before those types of mods won't crash, however. I'll post work updates here as they become available/noteworthy.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #597 on: February 08, 2020, 03:30:44 PM »

Sup lad its me again, Really strange glitch I keep stumbling into when black market dealing and haven't found a workaround it yet in game.

When the AI heads this way too search me after I sell VAST amounts of goods at 0 traiffs, they are stuck in a 'engage or open coms' without the ability too leave without fighting them which RUINS my relationship or relogging an earlier save. I've had this happen at 2 different ports. Both were Archean order this run so far but this is a strictly allied Archen run or atleast was.

Thanks for the report and sorry for the experience. (I thought I tidied all that up but looks like I was wrong :( ) That might be fixable in a hotfix since it sounds like a rules issue. So I'm clear on the details: it happens only while smuggling with high reputation with the Archean Order faction or were you aligned with another faction? (That's the problem when a faction matches the name of the mod- it can create a little confusion at times haha)

Nvm on the details, I was able to reproduce it. Working on a hotfix for late tonight (have to leave now and won't be home until late). Instead of having to completely redownload, I'll also link instructions on an easy file replacement that should solve the problem without breaking saves. Simply have that fix installed and even if the fleet is currently pursuing you it should be resolvable.

Apologies for the inconvenience.
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Morrokain

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #598 on: February 09, 2020, 11:42:47 AM »

Fixed the smuggling bug. You can:

A) Redownload and clean install the mod.

OR

B) Use this link and download the rules.csv file and replace it in the mod directory ("Archean Order TC v1.3.4e/data/campaign")

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fm5br77z9dr0fyk/AAAsk6ehuJBC6hZyTSZr7Ql1a?dl=0

Shouldn't break saves.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] TC: Archean Order: Rebalanced Combat/Lore RPG - Lore update 1/20
« Reply #599 on: February 11, 2020, 04:32:40 PM »

Any strategic advice for stopping the Archean Order from curb-stomping literally every other faction into the dust?  I've seen campaigns where they are down to two planets, declare war on someone with eight planets and still come out the winner every time.  I've seen them single-handedly fight entire alliances and win.  It seem kinds of weird to me that a bunch of religious zealots could somehow field technology than makes Tri-Tachyon look like the Luddic Path, but there it is.
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