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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] TC: Archean Order: Star-Wars-Inspired Combat/RPG (v1.2.1d) Update 4/15  (Read 47094 times)
Ranakastrasz
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« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2018, 06:44:00 PM »

Is it clear that "Flux per Salvo" means all possible ammunition? (not including expanded mags of course)

After a few seconds of thought yea. Its how much flux you have to spend to flush it's entire ammo stock out. As such, to use it effectively you generally want at least that much flux capacity available, and that is how much your shields will be taxed if you try to fire it.

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I like a lot of the turret slot changes, especially the addition of tons of multi-type slots.
The downscaling or replacement of some slots is annoying, especially with weapons being scaled up, but makes sense. More smaller weapons and medium/large weapons are a serious upgrade in power. Plus some get replaced by additional fighter slots.(sometimes causing loss of symmetry)

That was rather incoherent. I must have been tired.

You converted or replaced quite a few medium slots with smaller slots, which while annoying initially seems reasonable.
You also replaced some slots with fighter bays, which makes a lot of sense here.
Also, you in general added quite a few extra smaller slots (and larger slots too)
As a bonus, the larger weapons seem proportionally more powerful than vanilla (but I might be wrong. I generally find that range is the greater focus in vanilla half the time)

Overall its a..... Change

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Why did the hammerhead have its missiles and ballistic slots swapped? It just looks sooooo wrong..... I don't know why it bugs me soooo much.

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I much preferred the original "Sinking the Bismar" mission. Mainly because it let you try out the Hyperion without actually finding one. Expensive, fragile (1k health?), high upkeep, and horrifyingly good at flanking and strikes, as well as the fastest ship in the game. It is probably still quite a bit faster than fighters too.

More importantly in this mod, at drastically higher risk from fighters, such that new tactics may be required, and heavier point defence mounted.
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Made some suggestions on your manual.

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There don't seem to be many/any assault medium/large flux weapons. The mining laser at least should qualify imo.
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Some weapon niches are harder to find.
Is there a small energy strike weapon similar to the Antimatter blaster in vanilla? Long cooldown and high impulse damage?

Medium ballistic assault like Assault chaingun (current version is very burst fire instead of the constant stream gattling cannon I like)

Where is the vulcan cannon? is it Small or medium now?

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I've started using armored weapon mounts and engine insulation, and might try advanced repairs. Fighters and bola missiles justify it.
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The sheer size of fighter furballs in larger battles is insane. Especially amsuing how well those swarms block beams. (fighter disrupts the beam, explodes, and it has to re-extend)
My interdiction frigates are more tuned to Assault/PD and work reasonably well here, both as escorts and outriders.

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Its vanilla, but the effect of U.I. and S.O. has an interesting effect. Range or speed? S.O. gives 100% constant flux venting in effect, and speed too (and you plan to make that give them a peak performance limit?)

Like a number of other mechanics, the effects are exaggerated here. With speeds being far more normalized, and fighters outrunning most everything, frigates aren't nearly as fast as I was used to. Trying to use those speed boosters is important, but the crippled range causes them to be VERY specialized.
that said, U.I. and S.O. make for rather potent assault ships, able to dance in and out of combat, (although they have to be exposed to more danger than normal)
And, naturally, as said before, that is how you get interdiction ships.


In vanilla, I tend towards heavily hybridized ships, with most ships being assault/strike, and carriers as LR support missile-boats, and general PD coverage.

Here, I've messed with pure assault, strike, which had to have PD support (although constant fighters certainly help), support, assault/strike, and assault/support ships.

Supports are harder to build, because its generally not feasible to get enough flux to fill out all main turrets with LR support weapons. If it goes to near flux-overflow and can sustain it with minimal venting, its great, but... yea.... And missiles like Harpoons are full-fledged Strike-Support weapon hybrids, with the missile trait. Homing and support-level range, and hits like a proper strike weapon, but it's flux cost is intense. its not a finisher like vanilla, or rather it is, but the flux cost makes it a serious strike weapon.


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Fighter-wise, I mostly go with shielded variants. Mainly because they seem more resilient.

Cruisers, I usually give an interdictor and a PD/intercepter. (2 slots)

Carriers, generally bombers and intercepters, although I am planning to try out some serious gunships soon.
Having frigate-carriers helps a lot, but you won't get too many fighters on the field.

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The makeshift carrier deck hullmod seems unnessesary in this mod. Almost every you might consider using it on already has fighter slots. Maybe make it an "expanded Fighter Deck" hullmod, which gives +1-2 extra fighter slots (at the cost of even less OP to spend on anything else)


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The civilian star-liner ship has a tooltip from vanilla claiming it lacks a fighter deck. this is no longer the case.


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I just reread the manual, and you stated that armor is tougher. I suppose that is why armor-based ships seem feasible to use again.
Being able to take some hits and not be massively concerned about it isn't something I tend to experience in vanilla. Armor breaks very fast unless it is shrugging off low-grade kinetic damage. Here, it can take quite a few solid hits to break through armor. That said, I frequently face Gatling laser equipped frigates, and similar, so yea...

Also Reapers are scary.

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I would note that the other half of Peak performance was to balance shield and armor-based ships. Shield ships tended to have far lower performance, so neither armor nor shield based ships could last forever. Shielded ships would malfunction, so their theoretical infinite damage resistance doesn't really apply.
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           - >   Fighters are smaller, faster, more numerous, and can deal extra damage to ships' weapons and engines.
How much exactly? double damage? How is it done? EMP? some kind of damage modifier effect?

Either way, the effects are obvious.

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Though the weapons they carry are the same ones (visually/sound/lore) as the ship-based versions equipped on combat vessels, all fighters have a built-in hullmod (visible by title only in the in-game codex) called Fighter Systems that Reduces missile ammo by 50%, Beam range by 50%, Energy Weapon Damage by 33% and Energy Charges(if Strike) by 66%. This is so fighters can be more numerous without making carriers/cruisers/capitals overwhelmingly powerful. As it is, they are very strong.

What were the justifications for the fighter hull mod's changes.

-less Ammo - Forces them to reload more often, reduces the burst size. Same with strike. Why exclude Ballistic? Even if there are no Balistic strike weapons,
-Beam range - force fighters to get closer. Why not the same for missiles/Ballistic
-Missile regen - Forces fighters to reload. - Should this include all strike weapon's regen in general? A fighter is small and might not fit a proper autoloader XD
-Energy weapon damage - Why?

It might be outdated, but as stated seems wrong.

Should be, Replace all strike/missiles with non-regen versions.
-50-66% ammo on all weapons
-33% or something damage on all weapons
-50% range on all weapons

At least thats the thought I am running on.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 06:58:57 AM by Ranakastrasz » Logged

I think is easy for Simba and Mufasa sing the Circle of Life when they're on the top of the food chain, I bet the zebras hate that song.

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Morrokain
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« Reply #121 on: March 06, 2018, 01:29:26 PM »

Quote
Some weapon niches are harder to find.
Is there a small energy strike weapon similar to the Antimatter blaster in vanilla? Long cooldown and high impulse damage?

Yes, the Heavy Blaster, but similar to the medium-sized Antimatter blaster it is pretty rare. Notable factions that use/may sell it are Tri-Tachyon, Adamantine Consortium and possibly Sci-Corps. It can also be found in any black market. I've seen it a couple times in my games. It's a pretty nice find if you get one.

As a side note, if you are curious as to why those two weapons had their sizes reversed, it was because I wanted to keep the Antimatter Blaster weapon's graphic, and it was obviously too big to keep as a small weapon in this mod.

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Medium ballistic assault like Assault chaingun (current version is very burst fire instead of the constant stream gattling cannon I like)

Closest thing to that would be the Bolter, but it's burst-oriented like you said. The Heavy Assault Cannon is a constant stream of fire and fulfills that combat role, but it's not as fast firing as the Assault Chaingun- that's for sure.

Similar to small weapons, the mod could use a few additions to the medium and large categories to add some more depth to weapon choices. While I am aware of this, it may be a few weeks before I can truly dedicate the dev time to it. Sad Weapons, in particular, require a fair bit of effort to implement because they require a lot of file additions, often new sound effects, balance work, and then implementation into the campaign through variant additions/edits and then adding those variants intelligently into their respective factions' doctrine.


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Where is the vulcan cannon? is it Small or medium now?

It was removed in this mod, mainly because its role overlapped too much with the Machine Gun, which is now fragmentation instead of kinetic damage. The addition of the PD Cannon filled the role of a mid-level anti-fighter/missile weapon. The Shredder was removed for similar reasons, though I could possible see a weapon at least similar to that returning, eventually, with the success of the Scythe Cannon.

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Why did the hammerhead have its missiles and ballistic slots swapped? It just looks sooooo wrong..... I don't know why it bugs me soooo much.

Ha, I actually kind of like the way it looks now Tongue but to each their own.

I changed it for a more practical reason: Its medium weapons were often difficult to focus fire on faster targets like frigates. Especially beams. Missiles often have tracking, and even still, equipping two Heavy Annihilators often confuses the AI and so it refuses to fire on frigates because it won't decide which one to use when it can't hit with both.


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I much preferred the original "Sinking the Bismar" mission. Mainly because it let you try out the Hyperion without actually finding one. Expensive, fragile (1k health?), high upkeep, and horrifyingly good at flanking and strikes, as well as the fastest ship in the game. It is probably still quite a bit faster than fighters too.

More importantly in this mod, at drastically higher risk from fighters, such that new tactics may be required, and heavier point defence mounted.

The Hyperion can't beat an Onslaught. It just really don't think it can be done in this mod. Well, at least, certainly not by me. Not even close, hehe.

I can definitely add a mission that is beatable with the Hyperion though!

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S.O. gives 100% constant flux venting in effect, and speed too (and you plan to make that give them a peak performance limit?)

Yes, that is the plan.

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Supports are harder to build, because its generally not feasible to get enough flux to fill out all main turrets with LR support weapons. If it goes to near flux-overflow and can sustain it with minimal venting, its great, but... yea.... And missiles like Harpoons are full-fledged Strike-Support weapon hybrids, with the missile trait. Homing and support-level range, and hits like a proper strike weapon, but it's flux cost is intense. its not a finisher like vanilla, or rather it is, but the flux cost makes it a serious strike weapon.

My strategy for support vessels is to generally focus on a single damage type, maybe two on more capable ships, and emphasize that until at peak flux efficiency, then fill out the rest with cheap PD since fighters tend to focus on support ships more anyway. Then synergize my assault vessels to emphasize the complementary damage type.

There was a build, at one time, that had cheaper fire support costs. Support ships were, hands down, the best ships in that build. They could kite almost infinitely with their dissipation giving them speed boosts faster, or at least as fast, as the assault ships under fire. So the assault ships would never close the distance. They would eventually reach critical flux levels from fire, and begin retreating- completely wasting the entire charge in the first place. Overwhelming numbers were required, and even then if you had enough support ships focus fire ensured there would still be heavy losses from the assault.

I also tried increasing the time it took to fully vent flux to counter the first problem, and combat became sluggish and dull. Half of the time, a player would be waiting for flux to vent so they could catch things. The AI was also noticeably worse at deciding when it was a good time to do this.

I will continue to monitor this for potential improvements, however, and thank you as always for the feedback!

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The makeshift carrier deck hullmod seems unnessesary in this mod. Almost every you might consider using it on already has fighter slots. Maybe make it an "expanded Fighter Deck" hullmod, which gives +1-2 extra fighter slots (at the cost of even less OP to spend on anything else)

A nice suggestion, and I will see what I can do!

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The civilian star-liner ship has a tooltip from vanilla claiming it lacks a fighter deck. this is no longer the case.

Thanks, fixed!

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What were the justifications for the fighter hull mod's changes.

Balance was the largest factor here.

It is not as noticeable in this build of Starsector because fighters generally spend less time fighting each other, rather than ships, than they used to, but making that hullmod universally effect all weapons severely weakens ballistic-equipped fighters like the Talon, Marauder, Gladius, Vanguard and Broadsword. But, without the hullmod, the Claw, Trident, Liberator, and especially the phase fighters used by the Consortium and Archean Order would be supremely powerful.

It is definitely messy because now much of a fighter's stats are hidden, unfortunately, but I lack an elegant solution to the above problem.  Embarrassed

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I would note that the other half of Peak performance was to balance shield and armor-based ships. Shield ships tended to have far lower performance, so neither armor nor shield based ships could last forever. Shielded ships would malfunction, so their theoretical infinite damage resistance doesn't really apply.

So, you mean without peak performance, shielded ships have too much of an advantage since they can kite and vent more easily?

Quote
How much exactly? double damage? How is it done? EMP? some kind of damage modifier effect?

Coded into the hullmod to deal more damage to turrets and engines specifically- not EMP, since I didn't want hullmods reducing the effect.
Good to know it's noticeable though!

Actually, I double checked and it is EMP, after all. 33% more damage from Talons, 100% more from Gladius and Broadsword. I had made a note to convert it to the hullmod for a base 50% increase, instead, and thought I had. Whoops, I'll see about correcting that! It may be that I ended up not being able to do that with the API and just don't remember.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 01:45:46 PM by Morrokain » Logged
Morrokain
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« Reply #122 on: March 06, 2018, 02:00:18 PM »

Oh, also meant to say that the manual is now a little outdated with the changes since the mod's release and honestly since .8 (I wrote that manual before the fighter update was live and fighters were sub-optimal in vanilla)
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Ranakastrasz
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« Reply #123 on: March 06, 2018, 02:25:47 PM »


My strategy for support vessels is to generally focus on a single damage type, maybe two on more capable ships, and emphasize that until at peak flux efficiency, then fill out the rest with cheap PD since fighters tend to focus on support ships more anyway. Then synergize my assault vessels to emphasize the complementary damage type.

There was a build, at one time, that had cheaper fire support costs. Support ships were, hands down, the best ships in that build. They could kite almost infinitely with their dissipation giving them speed boosts faster, or at least as fast, as the assault ships under fire. So the assault ships would never close the distance. They would eventually reach critical flux levels from fire, and begin retreating- completely wasting the entire charge in the first place. Overwhelming numbers were required, and even then if you had enough support ships focus fire ensured there would still be heavy losses from the assault.

I also tried increasing the time it took to fully vent flux to counter the first problem, and combat became sluggish and dull. Half of the time, a player would be waiting for flux to vent so they could catch things. The AI was also noticeably worse at deciding when it was a good time to do this.

I will continue to monitor this for potential improvements, however, and thank you as always for the feedback!
Makes sense. Frustrating, but I will just have to figure out a way to handle it. That was also what the whole peak performance was about.
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So, you mean without peak performance, shielded ships have too much of an advantage since they can kite and vent more easily?
Sort of, yea. High-tech ships tend to have lower CR time than low-tech, and I feel that is partly to balance the armor-vs-shield equation. Shields regenerate. Armor doesn't. The CR means that if it comes down to attrition, instead of shields always winning, armor based ships will keep their peak performance longer.

Its not exact or anything, but that seemed like a factor. Armor vs Shield and kiting/speed. Plus, naturally, if a battle goes for more than 5 minutes something probably went wrong.
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Coded into the hullmod to deal more damage to turrets and engines specifically- not EMP, since I didn't want hullmods reducing the effect.
Good to know it's noticeable though!

Actually, I double checked and it is EMP, after all. 33% more damage from Talons, 100% more from Gladius and Broadsword. I had made a note to convert it to the hullmod for a base 50% increase, instead, and thought I had. Whoops, I'll see about correcting that! It may be that I ended up not being able to do that with the API and just don't remember.

Hmm. So flux venting thinggy would resist it. Why the different values for different ship types? Seems like something to just make linear. Does the talon weapon have more raw damage because fragmentation, so a lower value is needed? If it is a hullmod, do the different fighters have different versions?

Oh, also meant to say that the manual is now a little outdated with the changes since the mod's release and honestly since .8 (I wrote that manual before the fighter update was live and fighters were sub-optimal in vanilla)

Ah, well, may want to put an OUTDATED warning on it. Its the main reason I tried the mod out honestly.

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Is collision damage modified, or is it normal to have ramming damage tear away 20k armor and half of a pillagers health on impact? I never really had burn-drive capable ships in vanilla.
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I think is easy for Simba and Mufasa sing the Circle of Life when they're on the top of the food chain, I bet the zebras hate that song.

Cigarettes are a lot like hamsters. Perfectly harmless, until you put one in your mouth and light it on fire
Morrokain
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« Reply #124 on: March 06, 2018, 05:13:58 PM »

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Makes sense. Frustrating, but I will just have to figure out a way to handle it. That was also what the whole peak performance was about.

Well, peak performance wouldn't really help here since the issue is that assault ships basically become obsolete. Besides, if the only way to deal with support ships was to tank their damage until they malfunctioned, would it really be all that fun anyway?

Is it certain ships you really feel are underwhelming in this role?

Also, it may be useful to go off of existing variants, when possible, for support builds to start. They don't seem to suffer from ineffectiveness on my end (so far, at least), and can give you a sense of how to outfit them successfully. The difference between having a couple of Bulls with Artillery Blasters or a Wolf with a LRM or two can be significant, from what I've found. Increasingly so when equipping larger ships. The elite Astral, for instance, can maintain fire of several separate Missile Batteries, projecting enough firepower to outright eliminate most vessels below a cruiser in a single volley.

If the issue is that you, yourself, are trying to pilot a support ship, remember that by design you need assault ships as a defense screen. Using the escort command can be key to this tactic. Otherwise assault ships will eventually close into combat range and you will be very vulnerable and unable to even strike back due to your high flux levels.

Fire Support weapons compliment well with PD, or, in certain cases, a longer range assault weapon or utility missile.

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Hmm. So flux venting thinggy would resist it. Why the different values for different ship types? Seems like something to just make linear. Does the talon weapon have more raw damage because fragmentation, so a lower value is needed? If it is a hullmod, do the different fighters have different versions?

It was originally based on the number per wing and the effectiveness in combat trials, but yes, the idea of the hullmod is to make it linear at 50% for simplicity. That kind of nuance is no longer needed, and I did not want any emp-reducing hullmods or skills to factor in- only armored weapon mounts and automated repair.

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Ah, well, may want to put an OUTDATED warning on it. Its the main reason I tried the mod out honestly.

Going to update it with the next release. Also, thanks for your notes. They catch many of the changes already.  Smiley

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Is collision damage modified, or is it normal to have ramming damage tear away 20k armor and half of a pillagers health on impact? I never really had burn-drive capable ships in vanilla.

 Shocked What did you hit??

Could be based on mass, but nothing should be out of the ordinary there.
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Ranakastrasz
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« Reply #125 on: March 06, 2018, 05:56:00 PM »


Well, peak performance wouldn't really help here since the issue is that assault ships basically become obsolete. Besides, if the only way to deal with support ships was to tank their damage until they malfunctioned, would it really be all that fun anyway?

Is it certain ships you really feel are underwhelming in this role?

Also, it may be useful to go off of existing variants, when possible, for support builds to start. They don't seem to suffer from ineffectiveness on my end (so far, at least), and can give you a sense of how to outfit them successfully. The difference between having a couple of Bulls with Artillery Blasters or a Wolf with a LRM or two can be significant, from what I've found. Increasingly so when equipping larger ships. The elite Astral, for instance, can maintain fire of several separate Missile Batteries, projecting enough firepower to outright eliminate most vessels below a cruiser in a single volley.

If the issue is that you, yourself, are trying to pilot a support ship, remember that by design you need assault ships as a defense screen. Using the escort command can be key to this tactic. Otherwise assault ships will eventually close into combat range and you will be very vulnerable and unable to even strike back due to your high flux levels.

Fire Support weapons compliment well with PD, or, in certain cases, a longer range assault weapon or utility missile.
Yea. I never said Peak Performance was a good fix, more of a patch. It just feels like it kinda sorta balances out Shields, Kiting, and long range support. It doesn't do a good job, and since you found another way to do it, its great, but..... That just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you think?

As for my personal experience, Its pretty much, I build a LR support ship by putting as many LR missiles on it as will fit, and the rest is PD. When a ship can't handle that, it feels wrong.

I haven't really bothered piloting a support ship, because assault and strike ships are more fun, and it feels like it adds more to my combat potential.

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It was originally based on the number per wing and the effectiveness in combat trials, but yes, the idea of the hullmod is to make it linear at 50% for simplicity. That kind of nuance is no longer needed, and I did not want any emp-reducing hullmods or skills to factor in- only armored weapon mounts and automated repair.
Don't forget Insulated Engine Assembly :p
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Going to update it with the next release. Also, thanks for your notes. They catch many of the changes already.  Smiley
Heh. Nice. I just had an hour and felt like complaining. Its always nice to be able to complain constructively.
And again, that manual heavily implied to me that you put a lot of thought into the TC, hence why I Tried it out. Making it better can only help, surely?
Quote

 Shocked What did you hit??

Could be based on mass, but nothing should be out of the ordinary there.
Huh. Rammed my pillager into one of those... Uhm.... Archean Order Cruisers (I think)..... I would suspect it was the death explosion, but still...
And just because my armor and hull were reduced shouldn't have caused that, although admittedly i DID ram a cruiser. However, it was a high tech cruiser. You would think low-tech pillager, with ramming drive would be built for that.

In vanilla it rarely did much even to armor, although I never scaled up to cruisers, let alone capital ships. Given it was a lethal ramming, intended mainly to force the shield to overload and hopefully put a hole in the armor, I am not sure what happened.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 05:59:22 PM by Ranakastrasz » Logged

I think is easy for Simba and Mufasa sing the Circle of Life when they're on the top of the food chain, I bet the zebras hate that song.

Cigarettes are a lot like hamsters. Perfectly harmless, until you put one in your mouth and light it on fire
Morrokain
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« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2018, 05:26:01 PM »

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Yea. I never said Peak Performance was a good fix, more of a patch. It just feels like it kinda sorta balances out Shields, Kiting, and long range support. It doesn't do a good job, and since you found another way to do it, its great, but..... That just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you think?

As for my personal experience, Its pretty much, I build a LR support ship by putting as many LR missiles on it as will fit, and the rest is PD. When a ship can't handle that, it feels wrong.

I haven't really bothered piloting a support ship, because assault and strike ships are more fun, and it feels like it adds more to my combat potential.

Hmm. Well, I'm willing to give it a try and add it back in with a higher timer, especially now knowing the mod is compatible with Autonomous Ships. The main reason I dislike the mechanic is because I can't avoid taking additional CR damage in any prolonged fights without serious micromanagement. The global warnings are insufficient for me, or I miss them completely in the heat of battle. I may also see if the combat chatter mod is compatible. That may help things as well.

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Don't forget Insulated Engine Assembly :p

Ah, true!

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Heh. Nice. I just had an hour and felt like complaining. Its always nice to be able to complain constructively.
And again, that manual heavily implied to me that you put a lot of thought into the TC, hence why I Tried it out. Making it better can only help, surely?

Absolutely! I really appreciate constructive feedback, irregardless if I happen to agree with the proposed change. In this case, I certainly think its important to have the manual up to date for new players or those still adjusting to the combat changes. The input so far has already greatly improved the mod experience, imo, so keep it coming whenever you feel like it! Smiley

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Huh. Rammed my pillager into one of those... Uhm.... Archean Order Cruisers (I think)..... I would suspect it was the death explosion, but still...
And just because my armor and hull were reduced shouldn't have caused that, although admittedly i DID ram a cruiser. However, it was a high tech cruiser. You would think low-tech pillager, with ramming drive would be built for that.

In vanilla it rarely did much even to armor, although I never scaled up to cruisers, let alone capital ships. Given it was a lethal ramming, intended mainly to force the shield to overload and hopefully put a hole in the armor, I am not sure what happened.

Hmm, could be the ramming weakened the armor and the explosion caused the hull damage. The larger the ship and the higher the speed the more damage collisions deal, as far as I can tell.  Also, you battle rammed an Archean heavy cruiser? A bold move, indeed.  Wink
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A Random Jolteon
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« Reply #127 on: March 07, 2018, 05:28:31 PM »


Well, peak performance wouldn't really help here since the issue is that assault ships basically become obsolete. Besides, if the only way to deal with support ships was to tank their damage until they malfunctioned, would it really be all that fun anyway?

Is it certain ships you really feel are underwhelming in this role?

Also, it may be useful to go off of existing variants, when possible, for support builds to start. They don't seem to suffer from ineffectiveness on my end (so far, at least), and can give you a sense of how to outfit them successfully. The difference between having a couple of Bulls with Artillery Blasters or a Wolf with a LRM or two can be significant, from what I've found. Increasingly so when equipping larger ships. The elite Astral, for instance, can maintain fire of several separate Missile Batteries, projecting enough firepower to outright eliminate most vessels below a cruiser in a single volley.

If the issue is that you, yourself, are trying to pilot a support ship, remember that by design you need assault ships as a defense screen. Using the escort command can be key to this tactic. Otherwise assault ships will eventually close into combat range and you will be very vulnerable and unable to even strike back due to your high flux levels.

Fire Support weapons compliment well with PD, or, in certain cases, a longer range assault weapon or utility missile.
Yea. I never said Peak Performance was a good fix, more of a patch. It just feels like it kinda sorta balances out Shields, Kiting, and long range support. It doesn't do a good job, and since you found another way to do it, its great, but..... That just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you think?

As for my personal experience, Its pretty much, I build a LR support ship by putting as many LR missiles on it as will fit, and the rest is PD. When a ship can't handle that, it feels wrong.

I haven't really bothered piloting a support ship, because assault and strike ships are more fun, and it feels like it adds more to my combat potential.

Quote
It was originally based on the number per wing and the effectiveness in combat trials, but yes, the idea of the hullmod is to make it linear at 50% for simplicity. That kind of nuance is no longer needed, and I did not want any emp-reducing hullmods or skills to factor in- only armored weapon mounts and automated repair.
Don't forget Insulated Engine Assembly :p
Quote
Going to update it with the next release. Also, thanks for your notes. They catch many of the changes already.  Smiley
Heh. Nice. I just had an hour and felt like complaining. Its always nice to be able to complain constructively.
And again, that manual heavily implied to me that you put a lot of thought into the TC, hence why I Tried it out. Making it better can only help, surely?
Quote

 Shocked What did you hit??

Could be based on mass, but nothing should be out of the ordinary there.
Huh. Rammed my pillager into one of those... Uhm.... Archean Order Cruisers (I think)..... I would suspect it was the death explosion, but still...
And just because my armor and hull were reduced shouldn't have caused that, although admittedly i DID ram a cruiser. However, it was a high tech cruiser. You would think low-tech pillager, with ramming drive would be built for that.

In vanilla it rarely did much even to armor, although I never scaled up to cruisers, let alone capital ships. Given it was a lethal ramming, intended mainly to force the shield to overload and hopefully put a hole in the armor, I am not sure what happened.


The Gods of Ram may have given you extra power. I heard it happens from time to time.

Edit: Hmm...is it possible to get a start with a closer relation to the newer factions, or maybe with the vanilla ones? Not saying to start me out with a bloody cruiser like in Nex, but it would be nice to have a head start going into one of the factions.
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« Reply #128 on: March 07, 2018, 10:50:46 PM »

Edit: Hmm...is it possible to get a start with a closer relation to the newer factions, or maybe with the vanilla ones? Not saying to start me out with a bloody cruiser like in Nex, but it would be nice to have a head start going into one of the factions.

If you start as a Mercenary Captain you will have some starting rep with the Trader Guilds as well as a small fleet under your command, though you will be suspicious with some other factions.

I can add more starting options pretty easily, however, which faction did you have in mind, or what sort of scenario?
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« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2018, 06:02:45 AM »



Hmm. Well, I'm willing to give it a try and add it back in with a higher timer, especially now knowing the mod is compatible with Autonomous Ships. The main reason I dislike the mechanic is because I can't avoid taking additional CR damage in any prolonged fights without serious micromanagement. The global warnings are insufficient for me, or I miss them completely in the heat of battle. I may also see if the combat chatter mod is compatible. That may help things as well.
It works fine. Been using it since I started this mod.

You could take roughly vanilla times and increase them by 5x or so. It would still only apply in rare cases, but you could them use that for the hullmods, like SO and High Maintenance and Phase Field which cut it down to a more vanilla level.
Quote


Absolutely! I really appreciate constructive feedback, irregardless if I happen to agree with the proposed change. In this case, I certainly think its important to have the manual up to date for new players or those still adjusting to the combat changes. The input so far has already greatly improved the mod experience, imo, so keep it coming whenever you feel like it! Smiley

As a programmer and game modder (Factorio, Warcraft III) I get into the habit of finding things that need improvement or that I don't like, recording them, and fixing them.
Its only a small step from there to sending suggestions to the actual developer, or suggesting to the people who wrote the game.

Its highly satisfying when my suggestions or reports are responded to.
Quote
Hmm, could be the ramming weakened the armor and the explosion caused the hull damage. The larger the ship and the higher the speed the more damage collisions deal, as far as I can tell.  Also, you battle rammed an Archean heavy cruiser? A bold move, indeed.  Wink

Heh. Yea, How much of a bang do death bangs actually deal? I have wonderful memories of using a wolf with 4 reapers (expanded missile skill), ramming other frigates or destroyers, unloading death, raising shield, and being overloaded for like 15 seconds. Sadly reapers now have an arming time so they aren't functional in that situation anymore. Which is probably a good thing, given how silly powerful that combo was.

If I didn't raise the shield, I tended to take heavy damage or explode.....

Stupid reapers now just bounce off at melee range.

MELEE NUKES! BRING THEM BACK.

Ahem...

Presumably the death bang is the problem. Mainly I use it to close the distance or get into broadside range.
Pillager's main turrets spread a large arc, and there isn't a point where it gets full coverage, If you get the angle right you can get 4 cannons running however. Kinda reminding me of the Fatboy from Supreme Commander.

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« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2018, 06:27:49 AM »

Edit: Hmm...is it possible to get a start with a closer relation to the newer factions, or maybe with the vanilla ones? Not saying to start me out with a bloody cruiser like in Nex, but it would be nice to have a head start going into one of the factions.

If you start as a Mercenary Captain you will have some starting rep with the Trader Guilds as well as a small fleet under your command, though you will be suspicious with some other factions.

I can add more starting options pretty easily, however, which faction did you have in mind, or what sort of scenario?
I was actually thinking having a start that was similar to that, but all the other new factions. It doesn't need to be like that with the vanilla factions as there would be less new stuff with them, and they are more familiar to players.

With the scenario's: I can't actually think of many, but maybe a raiding party for the Consortium (Frigates and a destroyer with a freighter), Science related fleet for the Sci-Corps (couple frigates, destroyer, freighter or tanker), and a combat fleet (couple destroyers and either a few carriers or frigates) for the Archeus?

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« Reply #131 on: March 09, 2018, 02:18:11 PM »

Quote
You could take roughly vanilla times and increase them by 5x or so. It would still only apply in rare cases, but you could them use that for the hullmods, like SO and High Maintenance and Phase Field which cut it down to a more vanilla level.

Yeah this is what I was thinking. Something along those lines.


Quote
As a programmer and game modder (Factorio, Warcraft III) I get into the habit of finding things that need improvement or that I don't like, recording them, and fixing them.
Its only a small step from there to sending suggestions to the actual developer, or suggesting to the people who wrote the game.

Its highly satisfying when my suggestions or reports are responded to.

Agreed. Grin It's one of the reasons I have followed this game for so long throughout its development.


Quote
Heh. Yea, How much of a bang do death bangs actually deal? I have wonderful memories of using a wolf with 4 reapers (expanded missile skill), ramming other frigates or destroyers, unloading death, raising shield, and being overloaded for like 15 seconds. Sadly reapers now have an arming time so they aren't functional in that situation anymore. Which is probably a good thing, given how silly powerful that combo was.

I'm not completely sure, but it has destroyed my flagship in the past so it must be pretty significant. I remember that reaper strategy, ha, gave a kind of jousting feel to fighting destroyers in a frigate.


Quote
Pillager's main turrets spread a large arc, and there isn't a point where it gets full coverage, If you get the angle right you can get 4 cannons running however. Kinda reminding me of the Fatboy from Supreme Commander.

My favorite experimental  Cool

This is going a ways back in the design phase of development, but I'm pretty sure a lot of ships were designed to have sweet spots like this. It's actually for two reasons: Besides the fun aspect of combat tactics, it helps give the AI a clear preferred attack angle to reduce its tendency to rotate shots off its armor. That is important because generally reduced turn rates in assault weapons cause significant loss of accuracy on constantly moving ships.


Quote
Oh god, the BEES

Haha, which fighters/bombers/gunships do you find the most difficult to handle?


I was actually thinking having a start that was similar to that, but all the other new factions. It doesn't need to be like that with the vanilla factions as there would be less new stuff with them, and they are more familiar to players.

With the scenario's: I can't actually think of many, but maybe a raiding party for the Consortium (Frigates and a destroyer with a freighter), Science related fleet for the Sci-Corps (couple frigates, destroyer, freighter or tanker), and a combat fleet (couple destroyers and either a few carriers or frigates) for the Archeus?

Sure, that sounds fun!

I will try and get that into a release soon.


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« Reply #132 on: March 10, 2018, 05:14:40 PM »

I may also see if the combat chatter mod is compatible. That may help things as well.
I am about to do some testing on that for you, but I can confirm that Combat chatter does NOT cause any crashes or problems at the very least.

Edit: I did some testing, and Combat Chatter works perfectly fine! I have noticed no difference when I use this mod and when I use other mods, so it's definitely safe.
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Ranakastrasz
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« Reply #133 on: March 10, 2018, 05:21:04 PM »

I may also see if the combat chatter mod is compatible. That may help things as well.
I am about to do some testing on that for you, but I can confirm that Combat chatter does NOT cause any crashes or problems at the very least.

Currently I am using Autonomous ships, Autosave, Combat Chatter, Common Radar, Leading Pip, and Upgraded Rotary Weapons (which I have no idea if it does anything here)
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Cigarettes are a lot like hamsters. Perfectly harmless, until you put one in your mouth and light it on fire
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« Reply #134 on: March 11, 2018, 10:49:50 PM »

Currently I am using Autonomous ships, Autosave, Combat Chatter, Common Radar, Leading Pip, and Upgraded Rotary Weapons (which I have no idea if it does anything here)

I am about to do some testing on that for you, but I can confirm that Combat chatter does NOT cause any crashes or problems at the very least.

Edit: I did some testing, and Combat Chatter works perfectly fine! I have noticed no difference when I use this mod and when I use other mods, so it's definitely safe.

Thanks for the confirmation! Much appreciated!
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