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Author Topic: Increased variety of D-Mods  (Read 1177 times)
Sy
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2017, 08:05:41 AM »

When you save scum to try and get 1-2 of the (10?) D-mods now you have an okay chance, but with 60 d-mods? Trying to get the right 1-2 becomes a lot harder simply because it's raising the chance you won't get it.
the problem with that line of thought is that you assume the number of desirable d-mods would stay about the same, while the total number of different d-mod is increased, therefore making the desirable number a smaller portion relative to the total. but that's unlikely to be the case.

the current d-mods affect stats that almost every ship profits from, even if just how much it profits from them does vary from ship to ship, and from loadout to loadout. as you increase the number of different d-mods, the new d-mods will have to become more and more specialized, so as to still provide variety in what the different d-mods do. and that specialization would lead to a larger portion of the total d-mods being desirable for specific ships/loadouts where the specific penalty doesn't matter much.

in short, if you increase the number of different d-mods from the current one to ~20, you may end up with something like ~10 desirable d-mods, not still just 1-2. so it would most likely make it easier, not harder, to get some desirable d-mods for specific ships/loadouts, simply because as the total number of d-mods (and the total variety of different effects) is increased, the relative number of desirable ones is almost inevitably increased even more.
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Sooner535
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2017, 03:24:37 PM »

Aye, that would be a problem but Think of it in a tiered system.

Faulty engines:
Tier 1: -10% in battle flight speed, -1 to hyperspace speed
Tier 2: -25% in battle flight speed, -1 to hyperspace speed
Tier 3: -50% in battle flight speed, -2 to hyperspace speed

This one could get worse simply by flying, so if you take the first iteration sure it's not that bad, but if it grows to 2 or 3 you have a bad problem (slow fleet)

Compromised hull:

Tier 1: -10% hull, -10% flux regen
Tier 2: -15% hull, -15% flux regen and dissipation
Tier 3: -30% hull, -20% ALL flux stats and a small chance to randomly blow up

This one can have things like: reduced cargo, reduced fuel, reduced etc. Even going to 5 or more tiers when getting creative. I think it should grow as you take hull damage (even out of combat hull damage)

Glitchy sensor package/

Tier 1: +5% sensor profile -5% sensor range
Tier 2: +5% sensor profile, -10% sensor range, +5% cost to scan things
Tier 3: +10% sensor profile, -20% sensor range, -5% to all ships sensor range in fleet, +5% cost to scan things, and +5% jump time (assuming SS ties FTL navigation through sensors)

I think the best way to increase tiers would be simply being scanned or scanning (so using that ships sensor package) there could even be higher tiers where if the ship has a small chance to make your fleet see the wrong thing (so you see a sensor of pirates but it's actually hegemony)



There are tons of ways to move on that system, obviously numbers should be edited, but you should have tier 1's be alright to have (in some cases) while higher tiers get harder to justify having (and making top tiers bring about a decision to sell the ship or fix it). It would also tie nicely into people wanting to pay hard prices for fixing ships, and it should cost less for lower tier and fewer d-mods (do you fix it now for a reduced price and hope you don't need money later, or cross your fingers and hope it doesn't get worse?) I think it would add interesting player decisions to the system and a depth to it (also it could have the way for new d-mods).

This could add dynamics like:
Get in a fight with a high tech faction and see a really rare ship, so you could use ion weapons to disable it (forcing you to invest crew or Marines to get it) or use some sort of crew killing weapon, these things take time so while your circling this high tech ship doing minimal damage and trying not to give it d-mods your fleet is fighting, Is the prize worth it? The possibilities!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:29:43 PM by Sooner535 » Logged
Sy
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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2017, 07:29:03 PM »

but Think of it in a tiered system.
none of this addresses the problem i described though? Tongue

you're just describing tiers of severity for d-mods we already have (or close to it). that is very different (and, mechanically, mostly separate) from the other part of your idea; adding a large number of entirely new d-mods with penalties for a larger variety of stats.

Quote
This could add dynamics like:
Get in a fight with a high tech faction and see a really rare ship, so you could use ion weapons to disable it (forcing you to invest crew or Marines to get it) or use some sort of crew killing weapon, these things take time so while your circling this high tech ship doing minimal damage and trying not to give it d-mods your fleet is fighting, Is the prize worth it? The possibilities!
there have been many suggestions in the past that were somewhat similar to this. unfortunately, while the idea often sounds really cool, there are inevitably issues with these kinda systems when it comes to all the details, especially tying them into existing game mechanics.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 07:30:57 PM by Sy » Logged
Sooner535
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2017, 06:31:07 AM »

It does however address that issue, because it becomes less of "do I have this d-mods I want?" To "okay got an okay d-mod on a ship, got to try and not let it get worse" if people look at d-mods as a thing that hurts their ships (or potentially will hurt their ship) then it'll be less about chasing d-mods and more about fixing up ships that you take in.

The problem on that line of thought is: it can apply to almost anything you add to SS. You need to sometimes risk messing up a few things to make the game better (which doesn't always work admittably, however it does work a lot) the only system I can see it tying into (that would need a overhaul) is repairing ones ships, right now the prices are a bit wonky on some ships, but yet again a tiered d-mod system would help in the fact that if you have lower and fewer d-mods: costs less. Have higher and more d-mods: costs more. Heck you could even do cool things like specifically add tier 1 d-mods that are helpful then have them morph into bad ones, I think in a game the more player decision there is the better (however I don't think you'd disagree with that point, just simply how it is brought around)

I admit that there may need to be some overall readjusting, however arnt the kind of iffy state of d-mods cause enough to look into changing this around? I honestly want to hear if you have an idea on how to change the d-mods system (or if you'd keep it current) and why, if you don't mind.
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intrinsic_parity
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2017, 12:20:55 PM »

What if the whole dynamic of new ships vs d-ships was changed. I feel like it could be interesting if new ships were rarer but more powerful. I suppose the proposed tiered d-mod system would work well with this since it makes the d-system less binary. The idea would be that the average ship would be slightly damaged, and new ships would be a clear step up in combat capability, but also much rarer. Maybe only a few ships in an enemy fleet are brand new and you need industry skills to recover ships as new. Also, new ships would only be available in military markets in smaller numbers at higher prices. To compensate, there would be many more 'decent' d-mod ships available (with the tier system, maybe the average ship has only a few tier 1 d-mods). The op of ships would be rebalanced so that there is extra OP intended for hull mods that compensate for d-mods, and so for a new ship they would have this extra op free, making them stronger.

Basically just increase op on all ships, but also increase d-mod occurrence so that the average ship has to spend some of that extra op compensating. I think that right now, a new ship with the extra op from skills has just enough OP to just barely use the stronger weapons effectively. I'd prefer if the best ships with all possible op buffs had some extra op to make interesting load-outs.

I think this would fit in with the lore as well, most ships are not in pristine condition, only militaries have access to new more powerful ships. It would also add more depth and give players something to work towards.
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Sooner535
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2017, 12:52:30 PM »

That's an interesting idea, I agree that the mechanic needs changing. For now all I do is get d-mods when I basically have no choice then buy ships I want from markets. It's pretty easy to get ships you want with weapons you want if you play your cards right.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2017, 09:47:09 PM »

That's an interesting idea, I agree that the mechanic needs changing. For now all I do is get d-mods when I basically have no choice then buy ships I want from markets. It's pretty easy to get ships you want with weapons you want if you play your cards right.

The problem here is that it sounds like you don't enjoy the "Salvage and recovery" playstyle - which is absolutely fine! But I don't think you can then claim the "mechanic needs changing" if you're not someone who uses and, quite frankly, bloody well enjoys it.

To each their own of course. But personally I think the current mechanic and selection of d-mods is completely adequate. A couple more would be great to spice things up and add some more variety, sure! But over-complicating the whole thing with 20+ additional d-mods and/or a "tier" system and such... Ack. All seems like a waste of effort to me.



Nonetheless! Today I did in fact spend some time considering a small "mini-mod" that adds a few new D-mods (just three or four) to add a splash of this variety everyone seems to desire. In my opinion, that'd be enough to add some more flavour without being overcomplicated or overwhelming to the player, let alone require a change of the basic mechanic.

Would people be interested to see what that might be like, if I were to go ahead and make such a mod?
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"I ain't one to punch first, but if the mil' wants a piece of me tonight, then they're sure as hell gonna regret it in the morning!"
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intrinsic_parity
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 10:39:55 PM »

I wasn't trying to say that the current system is bad, I was just throwing out an idea that I thought would make the game more interesting. I routinely use d-ships in my fleet and enjoy the 'salvage an recovery' play style. I don't think the proposed system would affect that at all. Ships that you recover would still be damaged, expendable and plentiful. I just feel like the system is very binary ('good' d-ships that are relatively indistinguishable from new ships, and 'bad' d-ships that are much worse). I think the game would be more interesting if there was more variety in quality of ships. I don't necessarily think that we need many more d-mods.
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Sooner535
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2017, 06:55:08 AM »

Exactly, and yes I do enjoy the first (5ish hours?) Of the salvage but, to me there's no reason in game to get a d-mod ship since you can just buy it (obviously this isn't the case with every ship). I would enjoy seeing a mod like that yes, would give us valuable data on it as well. I'm also not saying the mechanics are straight up bad, they could just use some tweaks/changes (as most games usually coukd benefit from in some regard). Which is why I do think fully built up ships should be rare to get and hard (very hard) to buy, meanwhile the scavenging of them should be expanded and the final fixing them up too. I am just saying it was my favorite part of the game, and it doesn't seem to last too awful long if you play well and carefully. I am just one who would rather buy a new onslaught then scavenge one if given the choice (until you get the skills for it, there's no incentive to not buy them either).
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Megas
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2017, 07:06:21 AM »

I would prefer to buy new ships if available because that is cheaper than restoration.

I reluctantly use clunkers because many ships are unavailable (or not enough in stock) for purchase, which leaves recovery the only or easiest way to obtain the ships.  Expensive restoration and cheaper repairs (since repairs, not maintenance, eats most of the supplies from frequent fighting) means most do not get restored.

If a ship is too badly damaged or has a deal-breaker (D) mod, it will usually get scuttled to eliminate maintenance costs (if out in the field).  There are more (D) ships where they came from.

A completely unskilled character can use a clunker fleet effectively.  Industry skills help, but they are not necessary.
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