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Author Topic: Faction-specific Hull Mods  (Read 654 times)
FooF
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« on: August 11, 2017, 10:42:36 AM »

An oft-requested suggestion is to further differentiate a few of the factions that share the same hulls that make up the bulk of their fleet. The Sindrian Diktat, Luddic Path, Persean League, and Independents all, essentially, have the the same core fleet makeup. Only the Hegemony and Tri-Tach really have distinct fleet compositions.

Having unique hulls to each faction is likely not going to happen (at least not soon) but there are already skins and hullmods that have begun the process of distinguishing one fleet from another. Hegemony fleets frequently have low-tech ships that many other fleets don't use in addition to the XIV battlegroup hull mod. Tri-Tach also uses, almost exclusively, high-tech ships with a few mid-line thrown in. The Brawler (TT) is the first of the variants. Luddic Path have green Lashers but are otherwise lacking any distinction while the Sindrian Diktat have the "Lion's Guard" as a kind of elite force. The Persean League, new to the game now, are also not visually distinct or otherwise compared to the others.

Assuming that adding a few skins and coding a few hull mods or hull variants would be drastically easier than adding hulls for the factions, I have a few ideas that hopefully would create a bit more variety in the fleet types and compositions, in addition to staying true to the fleet "flavor." As far I'm concerned, Hegemony fleets are quite distinct as-is, as are most of the Tri-Tach fleets. Likewise, the pirate faction using junk fleets and Mk. II-type ships are not in need of any extras. Independent would be distinct in being non-distinct and just being a hodgepodge.

Hegemony
No real changes. Perhaps a XIV variant for the Hammerhead.

Tri-Tach
Sunder (TT) - Replace small ballistics with small energy. Increase flux dissipation and capacity by 5%. Increase speed by 5%. Skin to match.

Sindrian Diktat
Add a "Lion's Guard" [LG] variant to Tempests, Brawlers, Hammerheads, Sunders, Medusas, Falcons, Eagles and Odyssey. Skin to match.
[LG] adds the built-in Lion's Guard Hullmod:
+10% Armor
-5% Hull
+10/20/40/60 weapon range (equivalent to ITU)

All [LG] Ships would be locked behind "Cooperative" relations. Up-armored at the expense of a little hull, these ships would naturally out-range their competition and the extra OP saved could go to something else. Plays into their "elite" status.

Persean League
Adds "League" [PL] variant to Wolves, Hammerheads, Sunders, Drovers, Herons, Falcons, Eagles, Dominators, and Conquests. Skin to match.
[PL] variants are distinguished by having built-in Integrated Point-Defense AI. This gives [PL] fleets more tactical flexibility when it comes to anti-fighter doctrine.

Luddic Church
Pathers notwithstanding, the Luddic Church would have a special brand of ship. Most of their preferred ships are outdated or "-D" ships and the flavor here is for the [LC] ships to be easier to field/maintain. Hounds, Cerebrii, Lashers, Enforcers, Dominators, and Onslaughts would have this designation, in addition to civilian ships like Hermes, Tarsus, and Buffalo.

[LC] ships would have a built-in hull mod that:
-10% supplies per month (and supplies to recover CR)
-5% time to repair hull damage

Anyways, nothing too drastic but adds a bit of flavor to the current line-up. Comments/suggestions welcome.




« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 10:44:34 AM by FooF » Logged
xenoargh
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2017, 11:13:30 AM »

I completely agree with this idea; the Lion's Guard buff is too heavy, though; perhaps if it forbade ITU and AO it'd be a reasonable buff but not quite out of hand?
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alguLoD
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2017, 12:15:05 PM »

While this is not terribly constructive input, I admit my brain stuttered every time you mixed up the Luddic Church and the Luddic Path. As you seem to be aware judging by the rest of the post, the Pathers do arguably have the most distinctive faction-specific ships in the game in terms of how they perform and behave.
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TaLaR
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 12:23:21 PM »

the Pathers do arguably have the most distinctive faction-specific ships in the game in terms of how they perform and behave.

Also the most powerful. SO for free, where the only drawback is having to pay for restoration (to get rid of Ill-Advised modifications)? What's not to like?
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alguLoD
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 01:34:14 PM »

Also the most powerful. SO for free, where the only drawback is having to pay for restoration (to get rid of Ill-Advised modifications)? What's not to like?

The part where talk like this is probably going to make Alex implement OP costs even for inbuilt modules at some point to prevent nonsensical shenanigans like this. Tongue

(Or reduce the amount of ordnance points available to LP variant ships in proportion to how much SO would normally cost, or making it so that restorations also remove in-built SO. Lots of options here.)
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 01:46:22 PM »

the Pathers do arguably have the most distinctive faction-specific ships in the game in terms of how they perform and behave.

Also the most powerful. SO for free, where the only drawback is having to pay for restoration (to get rid of Ill-Advised modifications)? What's not to like?

Their ship selection is small and almost become irrelevant around mid-end game. Most of their ship also shieldless or not very shield to flux efficient which will get demolish fast.
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 02:20:01 PM »

Also the most powerful. SO for free, where the only drawback is having to pay for restoration (to get rid of Ill-Advised modifications)? What's not to like?

The part where talk like this is probably going to make Alex implement OP costs even for inbuilt modules at some point to prevent nonsensical shenanigans like this. Tongue

(Or reduce the amount of ordnance points available to LP variant ships in proportion to how much SO would normally cost, or making it so that restorations also remove in-built SO. Lots of options here.)
Pretty sure Alex has stated that keeping the free SO IS intentional
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Megas
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 03:21:55 PM »

Pretty sure Alex has stated that keeping the free SO IS intentional
During the days when we captured ships and could not restore ships to remove Ill-Advised Modifications.

That said, I like having a Lasher with free Safety Override.

Ill-Advised Modifications is really awful on anything with more than one weapon (and barely tolerable on Mudskipper 2).  Weapons will break before the ship scores its first kill.  I remember reloading the game when my Lasher (LP) did not perform as well as a normal Lasher with Safety Override added.

Now that we can remove Ill-Advised Modifications, Lasher (LP) is very good, and Mudskipper 2 might be fun.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:23:31 PM by Megas » Logged
Alex
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 06:47:29 PM »

Nothing too specific to say here, except that we're definitely thinking about this kind of stuff.

Having unique hulls to each faction is likely not going to happen (at least not soon)

Ok, one specific thing - I don't see moving away from factions sharing a large number of 'basic" hulls in general, that's pretty much as-designed. Having more differentiation - whether it's through hullmods, weapon/fighter availability, etc - would very much be a nice thing to have, though.
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alguLoD
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 10:52:47 PM »

Aaah, I knew there was something I forgot (or was too lazy to) mention. It's something that's gotten brought up in blog posts: all the factions in the game rely on UAC/autofactory-produced Domain tech. Even if some factions possess more UACs of a given type than another, they don't necessarily possess the ability to make anything new or personalized off of that.

(Possibly with the exception of anyone making use of AI cores, as with the [redacted] and presumably this is where the Harbinger came from.)

I'm not sure if you were aware of that. It is something David has noted (tongue firmly in cheek, I suspect) - he, unlike modders, cannot diverge too far from what has already been established and make lots of bizarre and unique ships.
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FooF
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2017, 02:05:36 PM »

Nothing too specific to say here, except that we're definitely thinking about this kind of stuff.

Ok, one specific thing - I don't see moving away from factions sharing a large number of 'basic" hulls in general, that's pretty much as-designed. Having more differentiation - whether it's through hullmods, weapon/fighter availability, etc - would very much be a nice thing to have, though.

Right. I wasn't suggesting that each faction be completely unique by any stretch but have perhaps certain niches in terms of combat doctrine (which would be exemplified in hull mods, ship variants, etc.) Glad it's on the radar, though. Smiley
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Alex
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2017, 02:12:33 PM »

Yeah, didn't mean to say you were! Just taking an opportunity to make it clear that it's not something that's "planned", so that someone reading the thread or my response doesn't walk away with the wrong impression.
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Megas
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2017, 03:34:33 PM »

I like to see more customized/modified faction-specific versions of standard hulls so that factions feel distinct.  For example, Hegemony's A and XIV series.  Tri-Tachyon's Brawler (TT) tweaks for every midline ship Tri-Tachyon uses.  Luddic Path stuff, and even various Pirate hulls.  Everyone else feels too similar to each other.

When I play Nexerelin, all of the standard factions generally feel the same compared to mod factions.

I would be fun if we could hijack, control, and own Remnant ships.  They have a distinct style.  They resemble high-tech, but feel more like low-tech with energy weapons.  They are capable of highly specialized configurations, but they are a bit awkward and not overpowered.
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MesoTroniK
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2017, 04:16:28 PM »

I would be fun if we could hijack, control, and own Remnant ships.  They have a distinct style.  They resemble high-tech, but feel more like low-tech with energy weapons.  They are capable of highly specialized configurations, but they are a bit awkward and not overpowered.

In player hands, the slot types that allow Remnant ships to mass insane numbers of missiles... Are in fact overpowered. Ballistics on fast ships isn't exactly to be trifled with either.
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Megas
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2017, 06:11:32 PM »

In player hands, the slot types that allow Remnant ships to mass insane numbers of missiles... Are in fact overpowered. Ballistics on fast ships isn't exactly to be trifled with either.
More like high-risk, high-reward, if the missiles connect.  Without old Missile Specialization, missiles are not as overwhelming or reliable as they used to be.  Only Brilliant can mount ballistics, and it is relatively slow - 60 top speed and no mobility system.  Most cruisers and some capitals are faster than this.  Energy weapons on sluggish ships is not a good combination.


Lumen is like a Scarab without the Temporal Shell.  Kind of a pain to use with terrible shot range.

Glimmer is a classic Omni-shield Wolf without the Phase Skimmer, or Afflictor without the phase cloak or Quantum Disruptor.

Fulgent is an Enforcer that uses beams or missiles instead.  It cannot support multiple pulse lasers or blasters - does not have the flux to support them.

Scintilla is a variant Drover with Recall Device.

Brilliant is its own weird creature.  Very good sniper.


However (now that I think about it), the main potentially overpowered thing about Remnant ships is their peak performance.  Most playable ships have less peak performance than Remnant ships of the same class.  If I want to win a tough battle with Remnant ships, I would spec for maximum peak performance and stall until the enemy fleet runs out of CR first, then sweep them up.  Use the enemy AI's cowardice against them by outlasting them.  (By the way, this is not a fun way to fight, but... that was how my battleship dealt with faster ships piloted by Timid officer in an earlier version - sat on an objective until enemy ran out of gas.)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 06:14:26 PM by Megas » Logged
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