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[AN7AG0NIS7]

Capitals look awesome and stuff but is there really a point to fielding one?

All that firepower but always late to the party.. By the time my Astral gets close enough to engage, the enemy fleet is already dead, dying or trying to flee. With the Onslaught or Legion, at least they can burn drive into the fray.

But even without the firepower they provide, my strike group (10 max-level officers) of 4 Apogees (steady), 2 Dominators (aggressive/reckless) and 4 Herons (cautious/timid) can already wipe the floor with the enemies. (I didn't specifically hire officers for their skills or personalities, those were the first 10 officers I saw and hired, I only tailor their ships to whatever skills they get down the line.)

If the enemy fields a capital of their own, I'll just deploy and fly my personal Doom (or Aurora depending on my mood) to shoot load after load in its bum bum until it dies. I don't usually deploy my flagship unless the enemy fleet has a capital. Most times, I'm just watching the video feeds for the glorious explosions.

Also, is there any way to make capitals more fun to drive personally? Would stacking Nav Relays on every ship I deploy make capitals significantly faster or is there a cap to the top speed bonus?

[CapnHector]

I used to use my Onslaught XIV with maxed armor skills as the "anvil" aka tank. Burn relentlessly towards the enemy lines, get them in range of your HVDs and Hellbores, then hold. That thing can soak up the firepower of an entire enemy fleet on its armor, while firing back, in player hands, so long as you flash your shields for torpedos occasionally. Meanwhile, as the enemy fleet is tied up / splintered, your officers kill everything without casualties. Strategy works for everything in the game and I don't think any non-capital can do it.

The Paragon might be better for the job, but the Onslaught is surprisingly fast to redeploy with burn drive and can reliably make it to the front line. You can also deploy it first, initiate burn drive, then deploy rest of your fleet if against a particularly dangerous fleet that might kill one of your precious officer ships otherwise.

[StarSchulz]

Most of the capitals are just a bit slow, but they generally bring other things to the table. if you want something fast, try the Conquest or the Odyssey.


In terms of normal capitals, their CR and PPT will outlast just about any fleet that doesn't bring its own capitals. They also generally have a range advantage, and ships like the onslaught or paragon are very well defended and make a good point for your fleet to form around.

[AN7AG0NIS7]

Yeah I figured, if I wanted to use them at all, I should use the Onslaught (and maybe the Legion to a lesser extent) as a spearhead, but getting all the other ships to fall behind it, is too much of a hassle. Furthermore, the officer/autopilot usually wouldn't burn drive into the enemy formation if I didn't fly it myself, and I'd rather not fly those 2 ships myself.

And don't get me started on the Astral.. It's basically the fat kid (who has lots of toys) who gets to the playground too late, after everyone else ran off to play elsewhere. (Should have just stayed home.. )

As for the Conquest and Odyssey, I haven't managed to steal those yet so I can't say much. But they're used as broadsides ships right? I guess I can use them for drive-by shootings? Seems amusing enough, will try to steal one of each soon.

Also, I'm not particularly concerned with losing ships, because almost every ship in my fleet (and in the abandoned stash) is gained through unlawful means. They all have the (D).

I guess one good thing about having a capital ship or two in the fleet is that they act as a deterrent when roaming. Those silly Independents keep throwing random Salvager fleets at me. With a capital ship around, they'd follow but wouldn't engage.

[CapnHector]

Flying the spearhead Onslaught is actually really fun. If you have all armor skills, helmsmanship and all gunnery skills, and outfit it for frontal sustained firepower with HVD and Hellbores like I did, it's like you're flying this huge wrecking ball that crashes into enemy lines with lesser ships exploding right and left. If you're feeling frisky you can even burn drive straight into the enemy fleet to take out a Gryphon or Heron with your plasma guns and then burn your way out again. It's great.

Unfortunately Conquest is no longer the fleet-soloing monster it used to be. Now it's a weaker Onslaught basically, still slower than non-capitals and has Onslaught's firepower - but only on one side since it can't sustain firing 4 big guns.

[Megas]

Capitals are worth it, except the glass jaw called Odyssey.  They simply hurt the other side.

Paragon is a vicious beam sniper.  Onslaught is a flying brick.  Astral is the master of fighter spam.  Conquest is fast, and the recent boost to defenses makes it almost a battleship.  Legion can mix brawling and fighters very well.  Odyssey... tries to be a high-tech Legion but fails (due to worse durability and lack of OP).

Due to how... conservative the AI fights, capitals will get there in time to fight.

Unfortunately Conquest is no longer the fleet-soloing monster it used to be. Now it's a weaker Onslaught basically, still slower than non-capitals and has Onslaught's firepower - but only on one side since it can't sustain firing 4 big guns.

Depends what those big guns are, and what skills the ship has.  Hellbore or Mark IX is not too flux intensive.  Mark IX is simple but effective.

TIP:  To put capitals on the frontline, deploy only the big ships first then close ship select.  Re-open ship select and deploy the smaller ships as a second wave.

[TaLaR]

Capitals are among the most efficient ships in terms of combat power per deployment point and per officer/player.
If battle-size was unlimited and economic constraints removed, there would be no sense to have most other combat ships in your fleet (with exceptions like player-piloted Afflictor. Yes, it's *that* good).

[xenoargh]

Some of the capitals are pretty sweet. I think the current Paragon and Onslaught are worth considering for frontline brawling, and the Astral and Legion are both good at what they're designed to do.

I'm not a fan of the Conquest; it is better than it was, but I find it a little too finicky and fragile still.  The Odyssey is sigh-worthy; it's like a Legion, except worse in every way.

[Zelnik]

I may be weird here, but I think that the Paragon is probably the most awful ship the PLAYER can field. In the hands of the AI it's great, but never YOUR AI.  It's notoriously dumb and you never can put out enough damage to justify the flux.

[Squish Cat]

I hated the Odyssey at first.  If you think of it as a 45 CR deployment ship, it kind of is disappointing, yes.  To me it feels like a 40 CR ship.  Despite that, I've had good success using it. First and foremost, however, its a broadside ship and should be set up like one.  Once you set it up as a broadside ship, it works pretty well.

Spoiler

[close]

As per the screenshot: 2x Autopulse, 2x Typhoon Reaper Launchers (Or Sabot SRM Pods), 1 Guardian PD System (had no idea what else to put here), 1 Pilum LRM Launcher (again, no idea what else to put here), 7x IR Pulse Lasers, 5x Burst PD Lasers, 2x Warthogs OR 2x Claw Fighter Wings. Mods: ITU, Expanded Mags.

Warthogs will help utterly annihilate whatever you're broadsiding once the shields drop.  Claws will help catch and disable annoying frigates so you can blow them away.  Both of these have worked really well in conjunction with this ship and I am not sure which I like better.  They both have their merits.

I've been able to destroy Onslaughts, Paragons, and other ships using this thing.  Though frankly that might not be saying much.  The player already has a distinct advantage against the AI if they know how to exploit mechanics.

I've also seriously been considering just dropping the Pilum Launcher all together, sacrificing some Capacitors (or going back to the cheaper Claws) and putting in an Unstable Injector.

I still think this ship should only cost 40 CR to deploy under its current specs all the same.

[Megas]

The problem with Odyssey is it is too fragile to fight any other capital in a slugging match.  Unless it uses beams, it cannot get close enough to other capitals without getting shot back, and it does not have the defenses to withstand a slugging match against Conquest or maybe even Legion, let alone Onslaught or Paragon.

Odyssey is good against smaller ships (if they stick around to fight), but I do not need a capital for that role only.  (Capitals are expensive to use.)  I need a capital to stand-up against other capitals and Odyssey cannot function at that.  Any situation that makes the Odyssey look good can also make the other capitals look good too, and those other capitals are powerful enough to fight their peers on their own.  Well, Paragon is powerful enough that some of the other capitals may need to be configured specifically to counter Paragon (e.g., Gauss Cannons on Conquest).

If I want a speedy capital, the Conquest is better.  Nearly as fast (with jets spam), but much better firepower and flux stats, and decent durability.

I may be weird here, but I think that the Paragon is probably the most awful ship the PLAYER can field. In the hands of the AI it's great, but never YOUR AI.  It's notoriously dumb and you never can put out enough damage to justify the flux.

I like the Paragon.  It is the only ship (that is not a carrier) that has any shot range beyond short.  It is the only ship that makes me feel like I am shooting something instead of brandishing a knife, unless I include carriers (due to fighters being passive homing weapons).  Unfortunately, Paragon has to use beams to get that range, but quad Tachyon Lance (plus two HVDs to put hard flux on shields if necessary) is so brutally effective.

[xenoargh]

I think it's interesting that Squish Cat got the Odyssey to work with that build (on default difficulty?), but I'm inclined to agree with Megas; the Odyssey's weak spots (largely, poorly-designed turret coverage, weak shields for something as powerful as it's supposed to be, Energy weapon slots) make it a rough ride against serious opposition. 

I think that the Odyssey, since it's obviously supposed to be a shield-tank, should get the turret arcs fixed, reduced armor, slightly higher speed, turn-rate and Dissipation, and have Flux Shunt installed; that would give it a role as a shield-tank that has some serious teeth and can survive a lot of low-level pressure from Low Tech fighters... but is rather fragile when it needs to lower them.

[TaLaR]

I think that the Odyssey, since it's obviously supposed to be a shield-tank, should get the turret arcs fixed, reduced armor, slightly higher speed, turn-rate and Dissipation, and have Flux Shunt installed; that would give it a role as a shield-tank that has some serious teeth and can survive a lot of low-level pressure from Low Tech fighters... but is rather fragile when it needs to lower them.

At least I'd like to see something done about it's infuriatingly narrow sweet-spot for three large turrets. Either make so that they don't overlap and compensate with appropriately large buff elsewhere, or make sweet-spot more usable.

I wouldn't like to see Odyssey any faster though. This threatens to make DEs and Cruisers obsolete - what's the point of fielding ships that are absolutely doomed once the other side has an Odyssey, because they can neither run from it nor fight it?
Every ship needs to have a viable niche on outrun-outgun spectrum, and too fast Odyssey destroys that balance. Conquest with over-top-speed inertial movement used to do this too (though only in Player hands).

[xenoargh]

Fair enough on that point; it's pretty close to the edge there, at least against a few ships.  But yeah, I agree about the "sweet spot" problems; the ship desperately needs better coverage, given that it is (relatively) poorly-armed vs. pretty much anything else in its size class.

[Megas]

I like to see Odyssey get its 0.8 shield back so it can survive a brawl as well as it used to (i.e., not very well instead of horribly bad).  Failing that, either replace High-Energy Focus with Reserve Deployment and/or add Advanced Targeting Core hullmod so Odyssey can do medium-to-long range combat better, or least made obvious that Odyssey is no longer the brawler it used to be.  Also more OP to support its second wing of fighters.  Odyssey's newfound speed only lets its disengage from other capitals, which does not help if Odyssey needs to get into the enemy's range to get shot at and lose the flux war before it gets a chance to shoot back.  (This is why Odyssey either needs Claws to paralyze enemy or use beams and fighters' kinetics to kite-and-snipe.)  All of the good cruisers have mobility systems to outspeed Odyssey, and almost anything smaller is faster.

Aurora and Paragon did not downgrade anything to get the changes that removed their fatal weaknesses of slow speed and short shot range.  Also, the additional armor and hull Conquest got has pushed it nearly into battleship territory (but it needs Hardened Shields or near max capacitors to get there, but at least it has the OP to afford that).

Re: Odyssey's speed.
It is fine.  Much faster and it can probably outspeed and destroy some smaller ships too easily.  Any slower and Conquest with jets spam can match or beat it, and the Conquest is stronger.

I would like to see the Odyssey's (and Centurion's) turret arcs widened.  If not, maybe turn the Odyssey's medium mounts into synergies.