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[Thaago]

I'm noticing that whenever I fight against unshielded enemies, my fleet will waste all of their missiles against "soft" targets. For example, a Vigilance will launch all 12 of its harpoons at a Buffalo Mk 2. However, unshielded ships are the WORST target for missiles. They a) often have secondary defenses such as flares or vulcans that cause those missiles to be wasted and b) are brought down easily by any standard guns. The ships are then out of missiles against enemies where they matter (pretty much everything else).

Thoughts?

[Dri]

Hah, I wonder if you could use this against the AI and deploy your own Buffalo Mk 2. with SO and Unstable Injector and nothing but PD weapons! Have it rush up the middle and let the enemy deplete all their Harpoons on it!

[TaLaR]

Does this work on Onslaught with Shield Bypass hullmod (one from mods, that disables shield)? If so, would be the ultimate missile trap.

[Takion Kasukedo]

This indeed does work for any ship detected without a shield.

[Thaago]

Hah, I wonder if you could use this against the AI and deploy your own Buffalo Mk 2. with SO and Unstable Injector and nothing but PD weapons! Have it rush up the middle and let the enemy deplete all their Harpoons on it!

Heh! Now thats a thought... I would get a giant kick if whoever is playing pirates in the tournament coming up does that against a missile heavy enemy.

[Ranakastrasz]

This would be better described as
The AI currently does not take into account target point sefense when launching missiles.

[Igncom1]

This would be better described as
The AI currently does not take into account target point sefense when launching missiles.

That said, in other cases you actually would want the AI firing pilum missiles and annihilator rockets into more dense PD zones in order to cover for fighter and bomber craft going in for the kill.

Mass pilums in particular are deadly when used en masse.

[Ranakastrasz]

This would be better described as
The AI currently does not take into account target point sefense when launching missiles.

That said, in other cases you actually would want the AI firing pilum missiles and annihilator rockets into more dense PD zones in order to cover for fighter and bomber craft going in for the kill.

Mass pilums in particular are deadly when used en masse.

Hmm. AI is exposed code,right? I know vacuum manipulated AI via hullmods. Messing with the AI might be helpful.

[Wapno]

This would be better described as
The AI currently does not take into account target point sefense when launching missiles.

Guys, it's far worse than that.

It's quite aggravating when half my fleet dumps all of their harpoons on a single Hound that appears at the beginning of a fight, but I've actually seen ships spam harpoons... at overloaded fighters and bombers.

[Ranakastrasz]

This would be better described as
The AI currently does not take into account target point sefense when launching missiles.

Guys, it's far worse than that.

It's quite aggravating when half my fleet dumps all of their harpoons on a single Hound that appears at the beginning of a fight, but I've actually seen ships spam harpoons... at overloaded fighters and bombers.

Wut.
Wait, seriously? they throw harpoons at fighters?
*Snerk*

I think there are several factors that need to be taken into account.

Point defense in area. (Take into account flux levels of ships in area. Splash variants are more notable)
Allied support (allied fighters or missile launchers to eat up some point defense.)
Value of target (Don't use harpoons on fighters)
Vulnability of target (overloaded/flameout. Prioritize targets you can hit effectively.)
How many other missiles are already being used (Don't throw another harpoon vs a hound if 3 are already on their way.)

Its a complex problem. Just stating these 5 factors makes it clear that a quick if/then/else tree isn't enough. Not surprised the current algorithm has issues.

[isaacssv552]

Maybe something along the lines of not firing missiles that do more than a certain percentage of the targets hull in damage until ppt drops below 50%.

[Ranakastrasz]

Maybe something along the lines of not firing missiles that do more than a certain percentage of the targets hull in damage until ppt drops below 50%.

ppt?

And the problem is way more complex than that.

[Alex]

Made a note to take a look - it shouldn't fire Harpoons at fighters unless it's own hull is critical, but perhaps them being overloaded bypasses that check. It's also supposed to be better about not wasting all its ammo on unshielded ships early (it's much less likely to fire off missiles in this case unless its own flux is high, so *some* ships will fire, but it shouldn't be all), but I'll take another look at that, too.

[Wapno]

Made a note to take a look - it shouldn't fire Harpoons at fighters unless it's own hull is critical, but perhaps them being overloaded bypasses that check. It's also supposed to be better about not wasting all its ammo on unshielded ships early (it's much less likely to fire off missiles in this case unless its own flux is high, so *some* ships will fire, but it shouldn't be all), but I'll take another look at that, too.

Yeah, that sounds like what's happening - I've never seen Harpoons being fired at unshielded fighters, like Warthogs, Broadswords etc. but when things like Daggers, Tridents or Claws get an overload, bigger ships are losing it and start dumping all of their missiles at them... which, to be honest, looks kinda hilarious, with all of the missiles flying all over the place, trying to hit a small target, sometimes even accidentally hitting a bigger hostile ship with various results.

As for the second part, I think I still see that happening with my ships way too often. It isn't uncommon to see an enemy Hound running away from like 10 or more Harpoons flying at it, even worse if it's a Buffalo mk2. I sometimes don't even bother putting missiles on my Tempests, because those missiles rarely last longer than 15 seconds into the fight, so those ordnance points can be spent better on something that will last throughout the battle.

[Schwartz]

Unshielded ships aren't bad targets really. The AI is just a touch too eager to lose all its ordnance against them. Give it some restraint and that should be fine.

Opportunities, whether it's an overloaded or high flux ship or an unshielded one, don't discriminate. That an unshielded ship may have a flare defense is incidental. They don't all have one, nor does it make the ship bulletproof vs. missiles. Any way to remove an enemy power from the battlefield early boosts your own fleet's survivability.