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Author Topic: Character aptitude points why I don't like them and how I would change them.  (Read 26041 times)

Megas

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The game sort of rewards specialization.  You just need to cherry pick skills from all aptitudes to specialize.  Also, there are must-have perks for any combat-minded character in Leadership and Technology.  Well, I guess the player could max all Combat skills, but that is a sub-optimal build when a lone flagship has trouble forcing fights against a cowardly AI.
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intrinsic_parity

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I think the skill system lacks a sense of progression. Since there are only three tiers of skills, it is relatively easy to unlock any specific skill. I think this is compounded by the fact that you level up extremely quickly, basically after every fight. Because of this, it's possible to have pretty much any skill at any time in the game, and the skills have to all be relatively similar in power. There's little sense of 'as I level up, I gain progressively more powerful abilities', it's more like 'here's a bunch of perks, pick one every time you level up'. It seems like maybe this is intentional, but I think games are much more fun when there are some powerful late game skills that the player is waiting to get.

I also think the current skill system does a bad job of highlighting which skills are better or worse. Experienced players have a good sense of what skills are really powerful and what skills aren't that great, but a new player has no idea. Some tier 1 and 2 skills are better than a lot of other tier 3 skills. You could easily spec out a character with a bunch of tier 3 skills (which seems really powerful) and miss every single one of the 'must have' skills. It kinda feels like a giant noob trap. 
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Megas

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I like the fast progression.  I do not like bounties leveling faster than I can (afford).
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Megas

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Speaking of must-have skills, I underestimated how useful Fleet Logistics 3 is.  Like Electronic Warfare, some enemy fleets have max of 85% CR instead of the normal 70%.  So not only Fleet Logistics 3 is great for the all-purpose boost, but also more useful to have parity against enemy fleets that have it, or else they could outlast your fleet if it comes down to it.

Also, if stronger fighters get whacked by raised OP costs (Kopesh now, maybe Warthogs later), then Loadout Design 3 will be mandatory for carriers, in addition to being very useful for everyone (else) to have.  Even with Loadout Design 3, my carriers feel OP starved if they use the good stuff (aside from Talons).
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Midnight Kitsune

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Loadout design three is basically a must take for everyone that isn't doing some kind of challenge run
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Darloth

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I'd really like to see them get some sort of bonus back, even if it's small.

I realize there may be solid choices to make them an investment, but they feel TERRIBLE when you need a skill, and must wait three to five levels for that skill with almost no benefit until then (see Loadout Design level 3, if you have no Technology.  You may say "You don't NEED that skill, though", and maybe you're correct, but having recently just tried it... it makes everything more fun.)

As a side note, practice does make you better at things.  Sure, hurting yourself on a fire trap and then healing the resulting burn is a bit silly, but it would work.  Do it often enough and you'll learn lots of things.  Firstly, how fire traps work, how much they hurt, how to set one off when you want and not set one off when you don't want, and also, lots about how you heal burns, how long it takes, how much it hurts in the meantime...  It's a silly example, yes, but it's also a perfectly viable example for how people actually learn.   A well implemented version of this for aptitudes, as suggested upthread, would be pretty fun I think.  It might indeed be nothing like Alex wants or wishes to design for and that's fine, I don't need or expect him to produce it (oooh, mod potential there!) but I think it would work.

Ideally a bonus orthogonal to the concrete skill benefits, such as dialog trees or specialist market knowledge or something else like that would fit great, but if that is indeed too much of a stretch to actually come up with all of those, just some low grade benefits spread across the whole aptitude would be nice in my opinion too.  Even if it's only like +1% hull per rank or +1% ECM per aptitude (total, not per ship), bonuses that do something would really help the -feel- of dead levels.  If you keep them low enough you'll never pick them up JUST for the bonus, but it'll really change the psychological effect of buying one, for the better, in my opinion.
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Megas

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While ships can make do without Loadout Design 3, it gets tiring putting the same optimal low-grade and spartan configuration on every warship.  I do not want to use Open Market weapons on everything because I do not have enough OP to afford better.  Similarly, I do not want my carriers to be stuck with fighters worth 8 OP or less because I do not have enough OP.  If I want to use Converted Hangar on ships, I need the extra OP from Loadout Design 3 to make it work.  Loadout Design 3 is one of the best skills for every character to take.

Loadout Design 3 is worth six points.  But it really is worth no more than five points because everyone NEEDS Electronic Warfare 1 to prevent late-game enemy fleets from shafting your fleet with -10% or more penalty to shot range.
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CapnHector

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I'd just like to mention that I do like the way aptitude points work and don't think they should be changed much, if at all. They serve a purpose; they're a penalty for spreading your skill points between too many areas, and encourage specialization. The fewer aptitude areas you skill into, the more effective skill points you have. However, people tend to be happier with perceived gains rather than perceived losses, even if the net effect at the end is exactly the same. I'm not exactly sure how to apply this principle to this situation, but if you do change the way aptitudes work, I'd suggest making it so the more you spend in an aptitude the further your points go, somehow.

You can no longer invest points in attributes. Your first rank 1, 2 and 3 skills in a given tree cost 2 points instead of 1. All subsequent skills of that rank in that tree cost 1 point. Your "aptitude" in that tree, visible on the left, is equal to the highest rank that you have in a skill in that tree.

Fixed?

Also: Loadout Design 3 should probably be less good.
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Megas

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Loadout Design 3 is a shadow of what we used to get.  Also, Loadout Design 1 is a waste of perk - a price we pay for a great perk at 3.
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Igncom1

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+20% capacitors is bad?

I favour capacitors over vents, although I do try to keep both of them fairly even.

If anything, most of my ship designs max out their caps and vents before I consider adding mods beyond a range upgrade.

Most of the mods are unnecessary when compared to flux upgrades, which make or break a fleet.
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Dri

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If you have TONS of capacitors and few vents, you'll spend an eternity trying to vent! I almost always try and max vents first.
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Midnight Kitsune

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+20% capacitors is bad?

I favor capacitors over vents, although I do try to keep both of them fairly even.

If anything, most of my ship designs max out their caps and vents before I consider adding mods beyond a range upgrade.

Most of the mods are unnecessary when compared to flux upgrades, which make or break a fleet.
Many on the forums favor vents over caps because one decreases vent time while the other can potentially increase it. And with the lack of OP due to the loss of three of the four OP boosting skills, vents are more important than caps.
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Megas

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+20% capacitors is bad?
Yes, it is if I need to pay a skill point for it.  Some capacitors are generally good, but normal max is usually more than enough, let alone super-max.  A problem with too many capacitors is it takes ages for the ship to vent if it lets flux get too high.  Also, I almost never have enough OP to max capacitors once I accumulate enough hullmods and weapons to outfit my ships.

Loadout Design 1 is as much a dead level as aptitudes.  The only reason Loadout Design 1 is tolerable is because Loadout Design 3 is so good that it is would be the #1 perk in the game if Electronic Warfare was not common enough in endgame fleets.
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Igncom1

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Huh, I personally find that having more capacity lets you win duels more often then not. The enemy blitz in and flux them selves up while your sitting comfortable at half of your flux bar, ready to tip them over the edge with your single kinetic damage weapon.

I can see vents being very important, but if you get just alpha striked and overloaded then the vents were for naught, in my opinion.

Then again, most of my weapon slots go to point defence, so my ships rarely ever get overloaded anyway as their few vents easily cover the one of two weapons my ships even pack.
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TaLaR

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Maxing out caps before vents is something I do only on Afflictor (and other phase ships, If were to pilot them ever). SO Melee Lasher too. But for normal ships, it's a bad idea.
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