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[Sutopia]

As we can fire bullets to temporarily disable weapons, why can't we do the same to fighter deck(bay)(s)?
They're just like carrier's guns except they're always functioning until the carrier itself is compromised.
It would be fun if emps are effrctive too, due to paralized autofactory.

[Morbo513]

+1, no idea how this never crossed my mind

[Wapno]

Because you're already neutralizing carrier's weaponry by killing the fighters. That's an equivalent of disabling guns on a gunboat via EMP damage. Making fighter bays vulnerable would be a massive nerf and would actually DOUBLE the vulnerability carriers already have.

Most carriers, if they are without their fighters, are easily killed in a head-on fight against a similarly sized gunboat, sometimes even smaller ships (probably the only exception is the Oddysey, but that's because it's a gunboat/carrier hybrid). Making it possible to disable the flight bays by gunfire additionally to them already having to fight against fighter replacement times and replacement rate drain would IMO be a pointless, massive nerf and basically a mechanic that does what's already done by a different mechanic.

[intrinsic_parity]

Honestly, I'd say the opposite. If you're hitting hull on a carrier, you've probably won the fight. The only exception I would say is the Mora, where this might actually be a helpful thing. I wouldn't mind seeing this change.

You would have to clarify exactly what happens when a deck is disabled though and when it is repaired.

[AxleMC131]

Perhaps damaging a carrier near a specified launch bay could further reduce the carrier's replacement rate?

Having said that, I agree with Wapno's point: by killing a carrier's fighters, you already are disabling their weaponry. So while it'd be a neat feature, I think carriers would need to get integrally tougher (or have better in-combat AI) to compensate.

[Sutopia]

Honestly, I'd say the opposite. If you're hitting hull on a carrier, you've probably won the fight. The only exception I would say is the Mora, where this might actually be a helpful thing. I wouldn't mind seeing this change.

You would have to clarify exactly what happens when a deck is disabled though and when it is repaired.

Mora with 3 longbow set at regroup is an insane sabot launching facility, plus it's damper field for good survivability.
Legion is another similar ship, providing frontline firepower with gun and fast reloaded bombers.
This might nerf the frontline battle carriers but got minor impact on the supporting carriers which just lurk behind friendly gunboats and throw fighters.

Because you're already neutralizing carrier's weaponry by killing the fighters. That's an equivalent of disabling guns on a gunboat via EMP damage. Making fighter bays vulnerable would be a massive nerf and would actually DOUBLE the vulnerability carriers already have.

So What I want to say here is for those who use their own ship as shield and make fighters insane payload launchers. Mora, Legion, potentially Heron, they can hide medium range homing missile bombers behind them and just deal insane dps without risk of losing much bombers.

When deck disabled , the replacement process stops and keep the timer. Fighters are allowed to dock but no rearm or takeoff.

[Thaago]

Be aware that the replacement rate ticks down while rearming fighters, so even on recall mode a constantly launching carrier will quickly grind to a halt.

[Alex_P]

Also, doesn't Overload already block fighter launches?

[Sutopia]

Be aware that the replacement rate ticks down while rearming fighters, so even on recall mode a constantly launching carrier will quickly grind to a halt.

Have you ever used Astrals?
If it doesn't lose any wing it doesn't need the replacement rate at first place.
Even if it does lose a few, a brief regroup after recall is enough to make it back up to 90+.

Also, doesn't Overload already block fighter launches?

Doesn't overload just block everything except engine? I don't see a point there.

What I tried to state is discourage making frontline mobile infinite missile spaming platform.
Especially longbows, they got very good range so they can stay intact and keep spamming sabots on your face and you don't have other ways to stop it except overload/kill carrier itself while other ships are possibly stopped by emp arc or claw/terminator drone flanking the unshielded area.

[Wapno]

Be aware that the replacement rate ticks down while rearming fighters, so even on recall mode a constantly launching carrier will quickly grind to a halt.

Have you ever used Astrals?
If it doesn't lose any wing it doesn't need the replacement rate at first place.
Even if it does lose a few, a brief regroup after recall is enough to make it back up to 90+.

I'm using an Astral and I can confirm that. When spamming Recall Device, you essentially remove replacement rate drop from re-arming bombers. But that's okay - it's this ship's gimmick. Without it, it would be pretty underpowered.

What I tried to state is discourage making frontline mobile infinite missile spaming platform.
Especially longbows, they got very good range so they can stay intact and keep spamming sabots on your face and you don't have other ways to stop it except overload/kill carrier itself while other ships are possibly stopped by emp arc or claw/terminator drone flanking the unshielded area.

I'd say there's no point here. You already have to get in range to shoot the carriers in order to deliver the EMP damage. So it's not going to help against Longbows' range, as you cannot deal EMP at range higher than that of Ion Beam or Tachyon Lance (unless we're talking fighting fire with fire, i.e. your own sabots).

Also, keep in mind that most carriers are slow and can directly attack only one ship at a time. I've actually exploited this property when attempting to capture my first Astral in current save. If you attack it at once from multiple sides, it's in trouble, especially when you use other friendly ships as a distraction. I know what I'm saying - RNG hated me and I had to fight that Astral multiple times before I got to recover it, and the most powerful ship I had was an undergeared Oddysey.

Anyways, if in the above situation the flight decks could be disabled by EMP, the fight would imo be a joke. A carrier would never survive a single direct assault. They are already very vulnerable when their bombers get destroyed, due to replacement times. Even in the Astral, you have to wait a little with fighters set to Regroup when too many of them get destroyed and it takes minutes before you get your fighters rebuilt if your replacement rate gets too low - at which time you can also receive a direct attack from the opponent. Having the flight decks disabled in this situation would extend that vulnerability severely.

Like I said, it seems logical at a glance, but it's a pointless nerf. And not everything that seems logical should be part of the game.

[Morbo513]

Honestly, I'd say the opposite. If you're hitting hull on a carrier, you've probably won the fight. The only exception I would say is the Mora, where this might actually be a helpful thing. I wouldn't mind seeing this change.

You would have to clarify exactly what happens when a deck is disabled though and when it is repaired.

I would normally agree, but carriers are often isolated behind the front line. Such a mechanic would make flanking around or using your own fighters to harass them specifically a more viable tactic. Otherwise the carriers are the amongst the last ships you engage, never mind destroy, once the remainder of the enemy fleet has balled up and been encircled

[intrinsic_parity]

I would normally agree, but carriers are often isolated behind the front line. Such a mechanic would make flanking around or using your own fighters to harass them specifically a more viable tactic. Otherwise the carriers are the amongst the last ships you engage, never mind destroy, once the remainder of the enemy fleet has balled up and been encircled

Eh, in my experience, flanking almost always gets you killed. The AI is very good at collapsing on ships that isolate themselves. I agree it would make fighters with ion weapons slightly better, but I actually like the idea precisely because it mostly affects frontline carriers. My comment was more in response to other people who were concerned that it was too big a nerf. I think it would be a helpful change.

[Sutopia]

I would normally agree, but carriers are often isolated behind the front line. Such a mechanic would make flanking around or using your own fighters to harass them specifically a more viable tactic. Otherwise the carriers are the amongst the last ships you engage, never mind destroy, once the remainder of the enemy fleet has balled up and been encircled

Eh, in my experience, flanking almost always gets you killed. The AI is very good at collapsing on ships that isolate themselves. I agree it would make fighters with ion weapons slightly better, but I actually like the idea precisely because it mostly affects frontline carriers. My comment was more in response to other people who were concerned that it was too big a nerf. I think it would be a helpful change.

That's where phase assasins kick in.
Even if you can't kill the carrier with one pass, if you managed to disable it's deck, it'll be out of action for a period of time, let alone the replacement rate loss during the period of disabled deck.

One of the problem here is AI tend to drive carriers out front no matter it got a gun or not so people think it's major nerf, so yeah it will need some ai tweak so they don't just go frontline to blow themselves up, except those with big guns(namely Legion and Odyssey).

[Lopunny Zen]

I would normally agree, but carriers are often isolated behind the front line. Such a mechanic would make flanking around or using your own fighters to harass them specifically a more viable tactic. Otherwise the carriers are the amongst the last ships you engage, never mind destroy, once the remainder of the enemy fleet has balled up and been encircled

Eh, in my experience, flanking almost always gets you killed. The AI is very good at collapsing on ships that isolate themselves. I agree it would make fighters with ion weapons slightly better, but I actually like the idea precisely because it mostly affects frontline carriers. My comment was more in response to other people who were concerned that it was too big a nerf. I think it would be a helpful change.

No kidding and the only way to make them act like a carrier is timid officer with carrier skills
That's where phase assasins kick in.
Even if you can't kill the carrier with one pass, if you managed to disable it's deck, it'll be out of action for a period of time, let alone the replacement rate loss during the period of disabled deck.

One of the problem here is AI tend to drive carriers out front no matter it got a gun or not so people think it's major nerf, so yeah it will need some ai tweak so they don't just go frontline to blow themselves up, except those with big guns(namely Legion and Odyssey).

[PyroFuzz]

Maybe there should just be very little armor on flight bays, like a weak point.