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Author Topic: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving  (Read 16933 times)

AtlanticAccent

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2017, 10:17:28 AM »

Well, thanks for trying.

I'm pretty sure it's a mod related issue at this point, because I do remember playing with a smaller modlist and everything being fine. I'll try trimming my modlist and see if that will help.

Still love Starsector though, and thanks for trying!
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Alex

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 10:21:53 AM »

Thanks for your understanding!

Oh, hey, another idea - can you disable GraphicsLib from its settings file (so that you can still use the mods that depend on it, minus the graphical enhancements)? That might help, even though the crash doesn't look to be directly related to it, but it could change what the game does enough to possibly avoid the crashing code path in the driver.
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AtlanticAccent

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2017, 10:47:53 AM »

I'm about to try that, mods worth trying.

Interestingly enough, there's a lot of posts in Minecraft forums about Exception_Access_Violation errors, and Oracle themselves have a really short support page on the error too. Reading that support page, maybe this is just a Java thing? I find this part pretty damn funny:
Quote
CAUSE

We are still investigating root cause of this issue.

The fact that half that Oracle page hasn't been update since Windows 7 but other parts acknowledge Windows 10 and Java 8 (which I'm pretty sure came out a while after & and Vista) does seem to suggest Oracle haven't really been able to figure this one out either.
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Alex

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2017, 11:22:44 AM »

Hmm, interesting. My gut feeling is that it's a different issue - I've seen crash reports from people using Java 8 that had the same error message, but it wasn't in the driver but rather in Java natives - which seems like it's more likely to be that issue. Still, could indeed be related.

(It's rather unfortunate that they haven't been able to pin it down, in any case.)
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Shade255

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2017, 09:41:09 AM »

Im geting crashes on saveing as well but mine is a program stopped/not responding, mine dosnt cause a hs_err to appear but this is what happend at the end of the log

1336918 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Saving to ../saves/save_Shinku_7022550516803155369...
1336919 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Saving stage 1
1337884 [Thread-15] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Saving progress: 0.0
1337914 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Saving stage 2

and then the program stops responding
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Alex

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2017, 09:52:46 AM »

Hi - a few questions, if you don't mind.

How often does this happen? What mods are you using? What changes have you made to your vmparams? Any changes made to settings.json? What operating system do you use?

A couple of quick things to try: running the game as administrator, and also making sure your graphics drivers are up-to-date.
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Shade255

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2017, 10:10:48 AM »

I cant figure it how it happens sometimes it just happens sometimes I can get away with a save or 2.
System is Windows 10 Pro, AMD FX 4100 quad core 3.60ghz, 16GB ram GTX 650 2gigs Vram, vramps xms 4000, xmx 4000, mods Blackrock, Combat chatter, common radar, console commands, Diable, dynasector, graphics lib with bloom and Normal turned off, Interstellar, lazylib, leading pip, neutrino, nexerelin, SCY, ship and weapons pack, and Underworl
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2017, 05:16:23 PM »

I'm also getting similar crashes at save, depending on the number of mods I'm running.

Sometimes I get a hs_err_pid****.log file with the EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION , but generally not.  Maybe only 10% of the crashes produce it.

Using Windows 7 Professional 64bit, Intel i5 core, 8 gigs of ram.  Graphics card is a Nvidia GeForce GTX 550 Ti, version 382.53 driver (which is the latest driver I downloaded this week to see if it made any difference).

Certainly I didn't get this in 0.7.2, and started with 0.8.1 (possibly 0.8 but didn't run that many mods with 0.8).  I've been running either 4096m or 5120m for both min and max memory since 0.7.2.

I've been running various permutations of the following mods:
Blackrock Drive Yards
Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering
Diable Avionics
Interstellar Imperium
Scy Nation
LazyLib
Ship/Weapon Pack
Underworld
ZZ GraphicsLib
Dynasector
Nexerelin

If I only run 2 faction mods, say Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering and Diable Avionics, its seems to work ok.  Or Scy Nation and Blackrock.  But if I do all 4, then I start seeing the save problem relatively quickly.  As a quick sanity check, I also tried 64-bit java 8, but it had the same errors eventually when saving.  I've reverted that and the settings.json since that test.  I can try running as administrator, which I haven't done yet.  It seems unlikely to me to make a difference, especially since most of the

Interestingly, when it does produce a hs_err_pid****.log, it crashes faster and doesn't produce a pop up I think.  Normally when it fails to save in this way, it throws up a popup saying:

"Java(TM) Platform SE binary has stopped working

A problem caused the program to stop working correctly.  Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available."

The game then closes after you hit the close program button on that popup.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2017, 05:37:53 PM »

Are you guys by chance...

Running Nexelerin as random mode games, with its settings as in number of systems, number of markets etc etc turned up high?

Alex

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2017, 05:41:27 PM »

@Hiruma Kai: Could you post one of the hs_err*** files?
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Shade255

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2017, 07:03:42 PM »

so i was curious and just tested but, in Vanilla or Nex galaxy once I leave spawn system game will not respond on save i can save many times if i dont leave the Spawn system
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2017, 07:14:24 PM »

@Hiruma Kai: Could you post one of the hs_err*** files?

Here's a pastebin link to an example hs_err_pid file, although I don't remember what mods were exactly running with that particular crash (nor their versions - this particular one is from June 11th.  I have a couple more if you want.
https://pastebin.com/vSiry6t8


Are you guys by chance...

Running Nexelerin as random mode games, with its settings as in number of systems, number of markets etc etc turned up high?

I've run a number of mod permutations.  Nexelerin with Corvus mode, Nexelerin with default sector settings (16/32/16), Nexelerin with reduced settings (10/20/10), and quite a number without Nexelerin or Dynasector at all.  Those all seem to run into the problem, at least when combined with 4 or more factions mods.  Trying to just run Imperium, Dassault, Diable and Blackrock with LazyLib and GraphicsLib eventually has this problem for example.  I haven't tried Nexelerin with reduced number of worlds and just 2 factions yet.

I've never run into this problem with just vanilla (and I've done probably at least 6 play throughs to end game fleets - although that doesn't take to long with the bounty hunting route).  I also didn't run into the problem with a Dassault only run through to an end game fleet.  I do remember running into this with Diable, Dassault and the Imperium before Nex was updated to 0.8.1.
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Alex

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2017, 07:26:41 PM »

Yours looks like the same error as the OP has - it's crashing in the graphics driver. At least, when it's crashing. Hard to say about the hangs, though.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2017, 02:06:13 AM »

I strongly suspect that this is related to VRAM deficiency.  Using a script, I counted the approximate amount of VRAM that vanilla Starsector needs for its non-background sprites, and did the same for many popular mods.

The counting methodology is <texWidth> * <texHeight> * <channels> * <mipmapping coefficient> = bytes.  For anything but backgrounds the mipmapping coefficient is 4/3.  Channels are grabbed directly from the texture information; I'm assuming that jpg illustrations are just RGB instead of RGBA, otherwise these results are actually low-balled.  For texWidth and texHeight, they're the lowest power-of-2 value >= the image width/height.

Estimated VRAM cost:
    Vanilla: 327.385 M (not counting some unused/old sprites I missed; the real number is probably more like 300 MB)
    GraphicsLib:        204.109 M
        small ripple:   144.109 M
        no distortions: 118.776 M
        w/o surface:    164.549 M
        normal only:    124.977 M
        w/o maps:        85.417 M
        no shaders:       0.083 M
    Interstellar Imperium: 195.069 M
        w/o surface:       161.248 M
        normal only:       127.427 M
        w/o maps:           93.606 M
    Ship and Weapon Pack: 189.276 M
        w/o surface:      149.172 M
        normal only:      109.068 M
        w/o maps:          69.630 M
    Scy Nation:      127.910 M
        normal only: 115.393 M
        w/o maps:    102.876 M
    Unknown Skies: 113.333 M
    Blackrock Drive Yards: 113.239 M
        w/o surface:        95.768 M
        normal only:        78.296 M
        w/o maps:           60.824 M
    Shadowyards:     112.878 M
        w/o surface: 103.972 M
        normal only: 90.475 M
        w/o maps:    81.866 M
    Knights Templar: 58.340 M
        w/o surface: 51.926 M
        normal only: 45.512 M
        w/o maps:    39.098 M
    Outer Rim Alliance: 48.297 M
        normal only:    44.781 M
        w/o maps:       41.266 M
    Underworld:      43.917 M
        w/o surface: 33.596 M
        normal only: 23.276 M
        w/o maps:    12.956 M
    Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering: 43.307 M
        w/o surface:              34.299 M
        normal only:              25.291 M
        w/o maps:                 16.284 M
    Nexerelin: 35.792 M (not 100% sure about this number)
    Diable Avionics: 20.384 M
        w/o surface: 19.718 M
        normal only: 19.051 M
        w/o maps:    18.384 M
    Portrait Pack: 14.125 M
    Upgraded Rotary Weapons: 7.469 M
        w/o surface:         6.469 M
        normal only:         5.469 M
        w/o maps:            4.469 M
    Practice Targets: 2.708 M


For instance, if you had all of these mods active, you'd be using over 1.6 GB of VRAM just for sprites, icons, illustrations, planet textures, etc.  Add to that some overhead for the draw buffers, your operating system, etc. and you definitely need a 2-GB video card to avoid pulling system memory (and decreasing stability / risking driver or Java crashes) to handle all of those textures.  Turning off GraphicsLib functionality saves you over 600 MB of VRAM in this case, which would allow room for a 1.5-GB card.

As an aside, the system requirements for Starsector definitely should not say "256 MB of VRAM".  The minimum is clearly 512 MB now.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: [0.8.1a RC8] Hard crash/CTD on saving
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2017, 07:12:29 AM »

If it is a vram issue, I can test that this weekend.  For various reasons, while I have a Nvidia GeForce 550 Ti with 1 Gig of video memory installed in this computer, I happen to have a GeForce GTX 770 with 2 gigs of ram sitting in a box in the house.  I can keep everything the same and double the video card ram and see if that in fact improves the situation.
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