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Author Topic: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5.1a  (Read 31581 times)

Takion Kasukedo

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 4a
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2017, 08:30:04 PM »

Hey was that a serious video by the way?

If it is...
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 4a
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2017, 08:48:05 PM »

Hey was that a serious video by the way?

If it is...

I've been following some of this in the Discord channel, and I can tell you that that video is nothing but serious.  :-\

Sorry @xenoargh, but there's a general agreement that there are serious problems with your so-called "rebalance" pack.
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2018, 07:25:18 AM »

Big changes to ship balance and Variants, among other things.

Few changes to weapons this time, other than finally getting rid of ammunition entirely for missiles; it works.

Should provide a more difficult experience for players in general (the Tutorial is quite tough on Normal, if you end up fighting the Pirate fleets around the Jump Point) and provide a much-higher long-term challenge.  

I feel like this is much more like what I want SS to feel like, when the difficulty's on the default settings (i.e., quite hard into late-game).  This took forever to get done, largely because editing all the Variants is incredibly tedious.

If using the quick-experience mod, you can fully-stock your fleet with Officers and they can reach Level 29, but no further; this allows players to max out their Officers, but be warned, the experience bonus cuts both ways, and Bounties get quite hard at the high end.


Just some samples of where things went, in the end:

1.  Dominator:  improved Flux output enough to sustain fire.  No longer just an alpha wonder that the AI can't use well, the Dominator can be expected to enter a fight and stay alive, so long as it doesn't get surrounded.

2.  Venture:  actually worth using again as an ancillary warship.  You can put whatever you want in that Fighter bay, and it's tough enough to serve as a support craft.  It's much like a Mora, but with more guns and fewer fighters.

3.  Hammerhead:  can finally bring enough firepower to bear reliably that it's competitive with the Medusa and Enforcer.  No longer a forgettable junk Destroyer.

4.  Enforcer:  back to being a proper meat-shield design.  Still slow, still not ubiquitous.

5.  Lasher:  has enough Flux Dissipation and Capacity to slug it out.  Useful despite slow speed.

6.  Apogee:  decent as a combat warship again, good shield-tank.  

7.  Eagle:  finally a notch above "mediocre"; the Mediums are Universal, so you can stack Kinetics, HE, or use Beam PD.  It makes the Eagle considerably more of the "every-ship" it was meant to be.

8.  The Pirate Colossus isn't just a lousy junk ship that nobody sane would employ.  It's a poor-mans-Astral, it has a narrow-arc shield that allows it to get into frontal fights and maybe not die, and it's fun to use as a crappy Cruiser that can only tank forward.  However, it's incredibly easy to defeat if you know what you're doing and you'll find it's still best-used in a supporting-cast role, not thrown into firefights.  But you can hold points with it against light opposition, which feels right.

Basically, I think I've fixed the remaining, "just use this and you're good" problems that remained from Vanilla.  Pirates aren't a total joke, Tritach is terrifying, etc.  

None of this is remotely balanced with mod content; don't bother telling me how OP X is now vs. <insert favorite mod faction> because that's not my objective here.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 07:48:24 AM by xenoargh »
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Techhead

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2018, 01:30:37 PM »

Hi. I downloaded and tried running this mod, but it crashed on startup.
I got the following Error:
Code
61332 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.OO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.OO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source
Mods loaded are A, B, C, and D of the ones marked _Rebal (I don't care for the XP/officer changes) and LazyLib 2.2
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Techhead

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2018, 01:50:31 PM »

I was still intrigued by your missile changes, so I poked around in the files. At a cursory read... the Hammer Barrage and Cyclone Reaper Launcher actually seem worse than in Vanilla. Similar burst sizes (the Cyclone is 3 instead of 2) but much longer refire delays. On the Cyclone in particular, its two-minute refire delay means that ships will likely run out of PPT before they can fire seven volleys. (For a total of 21 missiles. The vanilla capacity is 20.)

I also noted that the Gryphon still has its old ship system.
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2018, 02:14:55 PM »

You need to run with EZ Damage as well.  There's a dependency with B, to support certain damage types vs. certain defenses without the end-users having to monkey around with it.  Sorry, I forgot to add a user-friendly error message if it's not present; I'll fix that tonight.

And yeah, the Hammer Barrage and Cyclone were already absurdly powerful if used well, and were practically never used well by any AI (mine or Alex's) so I really didn't see any reason to buff them in any way.

I haven't messed much with the Gryphon, other than give it stats that put it roughly in the margins where I think a fighting Cruiser needs to be.  It's on my list of ships to get better-suited for their thematic roles, but it's rare enough in encounters that it was a lower priority than some others.

I think the biggest change from the last build, besides finally updating all the Variants to use things a little bit more logically, is that Harpoons and Sabots are on timers now, which makes ships that are designed to alpha with them to open or end a fight considerably more attractive in long CR slugfests in lategame.  I really felt that that whole motif was pretty marginal, unless you refilled the missile launchers by retreating, which I regard as an exploit.  Since that exploit can't be closed easily (I'd basically have to rewrite a very complex series of systems that will get broken by Alex's next update) and entirely benefits the player, I closed the issue that way; now the AI will have full launchers and players can't run their clocks down by drawing them to fire early.

I'll compare Systems and adjust that if it's necessary later.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 02:21:35 PM by xenoargh »
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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2018, 02:31:17 PM »

Tried running it again, this time with EZDamage included, and got the same error.
Code
ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.OO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.OO0000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.ResourceLoaderState.init(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2018, 02:33:02 PM »

Weird.  I'll look at it tonight.  I'm running with pretty much everything in th epack installed.
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2018, 02:42:00 PM »

Ahhh... found it fast.

It's something in the FX stuff.  Fixing now.
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.81a] Starsector Rebalance Pack 5a
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2018, 02:47:28 PM »

Fixed; a new version's available to hot-fix that one.  Weird, that must've been in there for a while, just nobody caught it by using that combo of the mini-mods :)
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