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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 179124 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #405 on: June 05, 2017, 04:50:27 PM »

If it's the 2nd or 3rd bounty fight and you've got a cruiser with that many escorts, you must've picked the high-money, high-level bounty. It takes 2 completed bounties to get from level 1 to level 2 (which will still be pretty weak).
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #406 on: June 05, 2017, 04:56:26 PM »

Maybe, but all of the other bounties I saw were 100k+ and had cruisers for flagships, mostly Falcons.  I just took the one with the Mora because it was close and could be an easier fight if the escorts were minor.  Did not expect two cruisers and escorts more numerous than my fleet.

Also, in my first game, all of bounties were 80k+.  My first bounty fight was the one with the easy flagship (Buffalo 2), but I was surprised to see almost twice as many ships as my starter fleet with two bonus frigates.  It was a meatgrinder.

@ Alex:  Didn't you say character level affects bounty level?  If so, that can skew things.  If I do tutorial, my character is at least level 6 or 7, and one more big fight will cause levels to rise even more.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 04:58:23 PM by Megas »
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adimetro00

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #407 on: June 05, 2017, 04:57:41 PM »

Maybe the amount of escorts could be reduced a bit? or the bounties more abundant?
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orost

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #408 on: June 05, 2017, 05:15:58 PM »

I'm going to say something that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet. Maybe that means it's a stupid idea, but it makes sense in my head.

Why do we need the bounties to scale at all?

Put in a lot of them, enough to cover the entire range of difficulties, and let the player choose what they want to fight. There sure is enough space for that now in the Sector. It solves all the problems with scaling, and also makes the world feel more populated and authentic. Instead of contorting the world to fit the player's ability as closely as possible, let the player explore the world and find things to do that match their current ambitions.

It wouldn't even take huge changes to the intel interface, it's already good at filtering lots of data. Just some tweaks to more easily identify bounties in the strength range you're interested in.
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Vigal

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #409 on: June 05, 2017, 05:41:33 PM »

I like this update quite a lot but I must say I despise these new hyperspace storms since they have KILLED exploration for me.

- distanced displayed on scan/survey missions is no longer useful because I have to travel so much further to get round storms
- Sustained burn in hyperspace is mostly useless since I lack the manoeuvrability to dodge storms with it on
- I have no way of knowing when a huge wall of storms is in front of me so I can't chart a course round them until I am right next to them

These factors coupled with the drop in scan/survey rewards and lower AI core drops have made exploration tedious and unprofitable rather
than the fun experience it was in 0.8a.

Adding a hullmod or perk to the navigation skill that gave 90% resistance to the effects of hyperspace storms would be great.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #410 on: June 05, 2017, 07:29:04 PM »

Re: Storms
Some of the storms are partially obscured by darker cloud overlays.  Storms are not always easy to see coming even if you know what to look for.

Quote
Adding a hullmod or perk to the navigation skill that gave 90% resistance to the effects of hyperspace storms would be great.
Hopefully a hullmod (I doubt it works that way though).  I ignore every skill whose purpose in life is merely campaign QoL because I need every point to turn my fleet into a combat machine.  The exceptions are Fleet Logistics and Loadout Design because of very powerful all-purpose boosts at 3 for everyone.  I want Navigation so bad, but 42 points is not enough to afford that after I am done getting most of the skills I want more.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #411 on: June 05, 2017, 08:55:04 PM »

Fighter balance so far:

Warthogs are incredibly strong mostly due imo to their armor. Anti-Fighter weapons just don't damage them very much, and the flares are quite effective at making them not get hit.

Tridents are worth every penny of their 25 OP cost when on a Drover. As the game considers bombers with launched ordinance as 'dead' wrt Reserve Deployment, a well timed system use can spawn 3 additional (2 from system 1 from rebuild) bombers soon after the initial 2 fire, for a total of 10 atropos. Better yet, the returning bombers are alive and so will be rearmed and launched before the reinforcements get back. When it hits its rythm its an incredible stream of torpedoes.
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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #412 on: June 05, 2017, 08:56:04 PM »

...Maybe we should just remove the flares from warthogs?  They're assault fighters, not heavy fighters...
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #413 on: June 05, 2017, 10:08:26 PM »

Eh, playing on the very latest hotfix, I've noticed that sometimes I'll go through a large bank of deep hyperspace and there'll be almost no storms whatsoever (which is very nice!). Other times I'll come onto a big wall of deep hyperspace that'll be just FILTHY with storms—odd! Seems like a "feast or famine" sort of deal...

Anyways, juking and dodging storms isn't so bad when just going out to bounty fleet range, but I really wouldn't want to take the same effort to go out to distant fringe systems. I'm all for further toning down the frequency of storms or adding some new mechanic that makes dealing with them easier and/or more interesting.
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Elthari

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #414 on: June 06, 2017, 04:19:18 AM »

After the last hotfix my carriers behave very weirdly.
I have a fleet of 5 Drovers + 1 Astral flagship.

Drovers do not respond to move commands sometimes, they just form a small ball of ships at the warp-in spot and just deny any movement commands. I can see arrows on the tactical screen, but they just turn around, sometimes bumping into each other.
When asked to escort someone they will lend fighters to the cause, but they still won't ever move, so once my Astral surpasses the fighter tether range it's defenceless.
Full Assault? Ha, they still stay at one spot, but they will eradicate anything that dares to fly in 3000 unit zone around them.

So now my main tactics is to stay in one place, form a Mighty Chaotic Ball of fighters-bombers-carriers that I cannot move and wait for enemy to fly blindly into this "trap". Quite annoying.

I can provide a save file if needed.
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StahnAileron

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #415 on: June 06, 2017, 04:44:43 AM »

Anyways, juking and dodging storms isn't so bad when just going out to bounty fleet range, but I really wouldn't want to take the same effort to go out to distant fringe systems. I'm all for further toning down the frequency of storms or adding some new mechanic that makes dealing with them easier and/or more interesting.
After reading this, I got ideas for some things:

  • A ship like the salvage rig that absorbs some of the damage from storms. Get enough of them and your fleets is immune. Trades occasional HIGH supply costs and CR loss for constant low supply and extra fuel costs. (Plus ship slots.)
  • A hull mod that can harvest the power of storms to INCREASE burn speed in a storm and for a little time afterwards once you exit the storm. So flying through a storm might be a viable strategy to escape or catch another fleet. (In addition to and maybe stacking with the already existing methods.) Complements the above.
  • Alternatively: give Hardened Shields some small immunity to storms or have a cheaper "grounded shields" hull mod. (If adding a separate Grounded Shields hull mod, maybe have it get a bonus if Hardened Shields is install as well.

BTW, dunno how viable this is, but would it be possible to rig fights that take place in hyperspace nebula to have a chance to have static/EMP discharges in the nebula during the fight? (Guaranteed if you fight IN a storm?) Now that I thought about it, I kinda feel like the battlescape needs more than just movement obstacles to spice things up. Hazards would be nice for the campaign. (Also, do gravity-wells ever show up in campaign battles? It's been a LONG time since I touched the scenario battles, but I recall at least one of them having a fight with a planet in the background that you could use for gravity assists.) I think it'd make choosing WHERE to fight more important strategically. (Perhaps especially when player-outposts become a thing and we need to defend them or something.)

Just throwing stuff out there... Not bothering with numbers unless/until interests is shown.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #416 on: June 06, 2017, 06:02:16 AM »

...Maybe we should just remove the flares from warthogs?  They're assault fighters, not heavy fighters...
Maybe (if nothing else changes), or just have the single flare Gladius use.
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #417 on: June 06, 2017, 07:12:22 AM »

harvest the power of storms to INCREASE burn speed in a storm and for a little time afterwards once you exit the storm. So flying through a storm might be a viable strategy to escape or catch another fleet.
gotta say, that sounds like a fun idea to me in general, although i'm not so sure it would be useful as a hullmod (since then it would only matter if the slowest ships of your fleet have the hullmod).

if storms apply their 'damage' more rapidly to compensate for much reduced time spent in them, players will still generally want to avoid them due to their high costs, but may choose to exploit them for speed in an event where that boost is more important than high CR or connected supply costs. it is already possible to exploit their slowing effect as well, to a degree, but the opportunities for it are rare, and attempting to cut off or damage a hostile fleet through use of a storm is much more of a gamble than boosting your own fleet by punching right through one.

it might also serve to make getting caught in a storm feel less annoying/punishing, even if it would still (overall) be just as costly as it is now.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #418 on: June 06, 2017, 07:36:10 AM »

As a counter data point for bounty difficulty, I'll state I'm not having any problem with them.  I will pick the ones I think I can do with the fleet I have, so I don't always go after the highest bounty.  I haven't needed to wait around for bounties to expire and refresh - always had something I could take.
 I was, however, putting together what I consider close to an optimal fleet.  Which includes doing loops through populated space black markets to buy what I need (i.e. Drovers, Herons) when I have the cash.

In iron man, at level 40, I've got a Legion, an Eagle, 4 Herons, a Drover, a Medusa, and Wolf (plus assorted logistics ships).  This seems to be able to handle any current bounty, which vary from about 180k up to 300k a the moment.  I've got a damaged Onslaught, Eagle, Drover, Hammerhead, and Medusa sitting in storage.  Skills are Tech, Leadership and Combat focused.  No Industry.  1 Combat ship officer, 5 carrier officers with full fighter skills.  This was from a tutorial start.

I have been using heavy fighter compositions, with me in a direct combat ship on the way up.  Wolf->Hammerhead (D)->Medusa->Eagle->Legion.  Assorted Drovers, Herons, etc for the other fleet ships.  Fighter heavy still seems optimal to me, although I think it is weaker than before.  The leadership skill changes do matter and I think were in the right direction.  Fighter composition for the fleet is Broadswords, Longbows and Daggers, while the Legion carries Broadswords and Warthogs.

Admittedly, I restarted 3 times early on in 0.8.1, but not due to bounty fleets, but rather random fights (come out into hyperspace right next to a large enemy fleet, seeing whether I could take that Pirate Armada in combat with another fleet, etc).  Poor strategic decisions on my part.  And its faster (and more fun for me) to restart fresh than try to recover from 2,000 credits a wayfarer and a kite.  Its also possibly a habit from Rogue-like games.  I will admit, with the bounties where they are, if I lost my fleet and had no backup ships, I'd probably just restart.  Trying to take cruiser class ships in frigates is a bit much.  And without industry skills, it'd probably take longer to put the fleet back together when compared to starting over and just working up the bounty fleets again.

I've lost a ship here and there (i.e. Condor (D), Kite, Drovers, an Eagle), but have made enough to restore or buy new.

There was a period where I was trying to get an Odyssey to salvage for testing and was going after those Tri-tachyon preferentially.  Didn't succeed in getting one yet, but I wonder if that biased the difficulty on the way to where I am.  I think the "Balanced" Odyssey under AI control even with an officer is the easiest capital to kill in actual fleet engagements.  Either I would solo it in an Eagle or order a fighter strike and watch it pop.  Its kinda funny when some default Eagle loadouts last longer against bombers, because they have a better shield tank buffer than the default Odyssey loadout.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #419 on: June 06, 2017, 09:07:47 AM »

I started another game, this time in dev mode so I can change money and reputation at will (so I can buy ships, weapons, and hullmods).  While character is still level 1, I noticed bounties are mostly sticking around 50k.  When I played my first game and left Galatia at level 6 or 7, all bounties were hovering around 80k+, before I fought my first one.  How much does character level factor into bounty level?
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