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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 180062 times)

SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #255 on: June 01, 2017, 08:47:06 AM »

I don't know who, but I'd join him. I like efficiency and in my fleet there's place only for dedicated ships. Dedicated freighters and dedicated combat ships (and tankers and rigs). I don't see a point in taking a ship with me if 2 dedicated ships will beat him in efficiency while being less than 2 times more expensive than it. I'd rather have a dedicated "cheap capital" than a hybrid mess. Multirole ships are for early game.

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #256 on: June 01, 2017, 09:11:22 AM »

I would rather the Odyssey be slightly overtuned than have another Aurora, a ship that's both obsoleted by carriers in battlefield role and defeated by carriers in a 1v1. Simulator Aurora gets beaten by a completely unskilled Heron on autopilot with 2 Gladius, 1 Claw, and a Heavy Mauler, and the same Heron kills frigates and destroyers just as well as the Aurora if not better. I'd expect a fast (battle)cruiser to be able to close in with its speed and destroy carriers of its size class or smaller, but I doubt the new Odyssey will be able to do so if it has terrible shield efficiencies and isn't faster than a Heron.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 09:15:15 AM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #257 on: June 01, 2017, 09:16:21 AM »

Well now, I wouldn't say a 1.0 shield is "terrible". Sure it ain't no 0.6 like an Omen or Paragon but...meh.

The only terrible shields are the ones above 1.2 like the Sunder's and Conquest's.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #258 on: June 01, 2017, 09:18:56 AM »

For a high tech ships that have low armor and hull integrity for their size and have to depend heavily on their shield for taking damage, 1.0 base shield efficiency is terrible, 0.8 is mediocre, and 0.6 is good. The Odyssey now has 200 lower armor and 2000 lower hull integrity than the Conquest, so its shield better be able to take hits. With a total shield HP equal to the Aurora's (12000÷0.8 = 15000÷1.0) and only slightly better than the Conquest's (20000÷1.4=14285) it's not going to be able to take fire.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 09:38:23 AM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #259 on: June 01, 2017, 09:21:29 AM »

No other high-tech ship has shields above 0.8.  Odyssey having 1.0 would be a first.

P.S.  Carriers are overpowered.  Heron is a better combat ship than every other cruiser.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 09:23:16 AM by Megas »
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #260 on: June 01, 2017, 09:44:18 AM »

Well good thing it's super fast (for a capital) and has capital ship range (assuming ITU is installed)!

I really don't think taking 20% more shield damage is going to upset things all that much, but as I said before, not receiving more OP for it's two new flight decks is some bullcrap.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #261 on: June 01, 2017, 09:52:42 AM »

Well good thing it's super fast (for a capital) and has capital ship range (assuming ITU is installed)!
Fast, yes, but fast enough to flank Onslaught?  I am not sure of that.  Capital ship range?  Only if it uses beams (and then it needs fighters to put hard flux on shields).  Otherwise, +60% of 700 is still 1142, less than cruisers' range with Mauler/HVD plus ITU.  Odyssey does not really have capital ship range now, and it still will not, at least with 700 range energy weapons; beams will probably be viable if it can afford two wings of Broadswords.

Agreed that no additional OP for second fighter wing hurts.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #262 on: June 01, 2017, 09:54:00 AM »

Well good thing it's super fast (for a capital) and has capital ship range (assuming ITU is installed)!

I really don't think taking 20% more shield damage is going to upset things all that much, but as I said before, not receiving more OP for it's two new flight decks is some bullcrap.
It's weapon range is crippled by being energy, so it has to be super fast. It's like having Unstable Injector built-in, except previously it only had the range penalty and not the speed. And it's taking 25% additional shield damage, not 20%. 0.2 is one quarter of 0.8. Given that its shield is a very important and significant portion of its survivability, this is a big deal.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #263 on: June 01, 2017, 09:58:24 AM »

@ ANGRYABOUTELVES:  Agreed.  Odyssey has somewhat better defenses than Conquest due to its shield, but significantly worse firepower.
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isaacssv552

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #264 on: June 01, 2017, 10:37:31 AM »

Even the 90 speed odyssey didn't beat the Onslaught by flanking, it beat it by winning a flux war against entirely HE/Frag weaponry. I think it is quite reasonable for an Onslaught with no anti-shield options at all to lose to even the weakest high-tech ship just as it would be reasonable for a 100% kinetic Paragon to lose to an Onslaught.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #265 on: June 01, 2017, 10:52:38 AM »

Perhaps we should have a look at other high-tech ships' shields... In the table "new" Odyssey with its 1,0 shields is basically a bigger Aurora in that regard, while old Odyssey was losing (albeit slightly) to an Apogee, which admittedly has a damn strong shield. Both of those, though, are nothing in comparison to Paragon's shields... I'll have to see if speed and second fighter wing make up for worse shields.

Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #266 on: June 01, 2017, 10:56:47 AM »

shoot I'm late to this argument but re: the onslaught costing less CAR to deploy, it's an outdated ship from a bygone era of naval doctrine, the Odyssey isn't. Presumably the onslaughts age and ubiquity in the primary military has cause some shortcuts to be developed
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #267 on: June 01, 2017, 11:01:56 AM »

The Astral has 12000 flux capacity and a 0.6 efficiency shield, for a total of 20000 shield HP. Both the Oldyssey and the Newdyssey have worse shields than the Astral.
The Onslaught has 17000 flux capacity and a 1.0 efficiency shield. The Newdyssey's shields are inferior to the Onslaught's.
The only capital ships with worse shields than the Newdyssey are the Legion, the Conquest, and the civilians.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #268 on: June 01, 2017, 11:08:52 AM »

Oh wow - I didn't think about them. In Onslaught's case it's not that big deal since it isn't exactly supposed to tank much with its shields, but Astral has flux-free weapons (fighters), so it can tank until the flux cap. New Odyssey really looks bleak in that comparison.

xenoargh

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #269 on: June 01, 2017, 11:21:18 AM »

I'm in agreement that changing the efficiency of the Odyssey without a big increase in Capacity looks like a raw deal, for a ship that's already pretty weak.

I think Odyssey really should keep efficient shields, or have a System that replaces HEF and gives Energy Weapons significantly more range for a little while (3-5 seconds; long enough to trash lighter Frigates).

It would make up for the shields being gimped somewhat, since it could open the engagement by putting flux on the opponent (unless it's an Onslaught Burn Driving in).  I think the Odyssey's main issues have always been that its effective firepower is terrible compared to almost anything else in its size class, and unlike the Conquest., it can't have a "strong side" to (kind of) make it work (in human hands, with luck and alpha).  I like that it's more of a carrier now; that is sensible.  But it needs more oomph, or it's just something we can ignore until we've killed the escorts, unlike the Paragon, where we pretty much need to stay awaaaaaaaay unless we're really, really really ready (which is a good dynamic- I like that it's that deadly now, lol).
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