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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 179065 times)

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #120 on: May 26, 2017, 05:22:35 AM »

When I tested killing times for various fighters, Gladius were dying left and right.  Sparks and Lux killed the fastest.  Warthogs were slower.  Broadswords were really slow, but they killed the Falcon on their own.  Gladius just drained the replacement rate on my Heron.

Probably re-do the tests and remember peak performance time left on Heron more aside from comparisons.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #121 on: May 26, 2017, 12:13:33 PM »

Just a small QoL thing I've just though about: maintenance value gets changed when you have Fleet Logistics, while fuel/ly is unchanged when you get Navigation level 2. I'm not sure, but probably that's because technically tooltip value is also jump into hyperspace cost, but I think that it wouldn't be that wrong if -25% fuel reduction applied to jump too (so tooltip can have reduced value) or to have jump cost unchanged while tooltip value is changed (because jump cost is a fraction of fuel cost to get anywhere).

zeno

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #122 on: May 26, 2017, 01:06:14 PM »

Quote
Ox-class Tug:

    Improves fleetwide burn by 1, cumulative with other tugs, not limited by its own burn level
    High sensor profile
    Base burn is 8
    Uses 10 fuel per light-year and 10 supplies per month (but only 5 supplies to deploy)
    Costs 40% CR to deploy (which brings down the cost to regain full CR, especially when recovered)

If I'm understanding this change correctly, it's to provide an option to make capital/cruiser fleets faster, with a hefty fuel cost.  But I think this unfairly punishes destroyer heavy fleets that try to remain fuel efficient.

For example, consider the following fleet composition:
- 1x cruiser flagship of choice
- 4x sunder/hammerhead/drovers w/ officers
- 3-5x beam wolves
- 2-3x buffalos
- 1x Ox
- optional: a few shepherds

A fleet like this can take on any bounty, survey, or salvage well into the late-game, chiefly due to the player-controlled cruiser acting as the heavy-puncher in combat.  In terms of cargo it's not as efficient as the larger freighters, but the trade off is that you can maintain a 9-burn max fleet speed with a single tug to offset the cruiser.

With the new Ox, this is no longer economical as 2x tugs (+20 fuel/ly!) are needed to bring the fleet up to 9-burn, at which point you might as well have a couple of of cruiser-class freighters and tankers.  This can have the lopsided result of large fleets with cruiser/capitals zipping around faster than small/medium fleets, as large fleet has the cargo space to shrug off the added logistical burden of 2-3 tugs.  IMO it basically makes destroyer-heavy expedition fleets obsolete.

One option is to leave the Ox as is, and introduce a destroyer (or maybe even cruiser) tugship that has the new fleet-wide behavior and even higher costs.  Has something like this been considered?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 02:41:54 PM by zeno »
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #123 on: May 26, 2017, 01:15:59 PM »

The Ox buffs its own burn speed, so you'd need only one.
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zeno

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #124 on: May 26, 2017, 02:41:16 PM »

Even 1 Ox at +10 fuel/ly is still super costly for smaller fleet.  The fleet I posted needs 20-25 fuel/ly total currently, with the new Ox it'd result in almost a 50% increase in fuel consumption.

Ultimately, it's more of a logistical cost than a monetary one.  It disproportionally punishes smaller fleets that can't afford to haul as much fuel around, but big fleets don't have that problem.  Especially since the big fleets will be able to burn at higher speeds, and so will have a much easier time catching hostile detachments to take their fuel/supplies, instead of spending money to buy at markets.
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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #125 on: May 26, 2017, 02:59:16 PM »

Hm.  Could we make the Ox instead of having a huge fuel cost itself, instead increase the fuel usage of every ship it's providing a benefit to?

Say, 15% per burn rating a ship is being boosted by.  So if you've got three tugs in your fleet, and an overall fleet burn rating of 10, then ships with a natural burn rate of 10+ would see no fuel use penalty, those with 9 would have a 15% fuel use penalty, those with 8 (including all three tugs) would see a 30% increase in fuel used, and those with 7 would be penalized by all three tugs for 45% extra fuel usage.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #126 on: May 26, 2017, 03:05:56 PM »

I think Alex doesn't want that because he'd rather have burn levels a commitment, so you won't see destroyers on burn 10 fleet, you won't see any cruiser but falcon at burn 9 and so on.

Soren

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #127 on: May 26, 2017, 03:13:23 PM »

One for the patch: occasionally I'll run into derelict ships or Domain probes and survey ships in asteroid fields that orbit a point so closely (we're probably talking an orbit value of 20 or less) that they just wibble-wobble around in a circle. This looks, to put it mildly, really silly. Might be good to put a minimum distance or maximum speed or both on that orbit value.

Also, found a procgen system that had three planetary systems clearly of the same template (ice giant with rocky unstable world and rings):
Spoiler

Not a concern so much as funny, but it did mess with the illusion just a bit.
[close]
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if you collect garbage, don't be surprised when it rots.

Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #128 on: May 26, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »

  • Ox-class Tug:
    • Improves fleetwide burn by 1, cumulative with other tugs, not limited by its own burn level
I think Alex doesn't want that because he'd rather have burn levels a commitment, so you won't see destroyers on burn 10 fleet, you won't see any cruiser but falcon at burn 9 and so on.
So in other words: what you describe as something we won't see... is already (planned to be) in the game.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #129 on: May 26, 2017, 04:24:17 PM »

Quote
Unstable Injector:
Reduced range penalty to 15% (was 25%)
Reduced speed bonus to 25/20/15/15
This could be more useful for normal ships.  At least carriers will not be able to abuse this as much, since they are unaffected by the range penalty.

I started experimenting with more carriers (other than Drover) with only fighters as weapons.  Due to how powerful carriers are, it turns out carriers can still kite-and-snipe as conventional warships used to do.  Just "snipe" with fighters.  If anything, it is similar to the infinite Salamander and infinite Fast Missile Racks combo during that one patch.

I will probably start another topic about carriers after I draft my post later.  For now, I tried soloing the simulator with an Astral (and Sparx) with a character optimized for carriers instead of a generalist.  I still could not solo it, but there were only nine enemy ships left before CR decayed to zero, and it did better than Paragon.  That same Astral managed to solo the hero battlestation, and it did not need to abuse Gunnery Implants and Electronic Warfare to do it.
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #130 on: May 26, 2017, 04:53:45 PM »

Can you buy and attach/swap modules in refit screen?
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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #131 on: May 26, 2017, 04:58:21 PM »

Can you buy and attach/swap modules in refit screen?
Nope.  Modules have to be built-in.
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #132 on: May 26, 2017, 04:59:56 PM »

Will they come back when you restore the ship, though?
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #133 on: May 26, 2017, 05:05:14 PM »

Modules regenerate as the parent ship repairs its hull and CR.
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #134 on: May 26, 2017, 05:12:56 PM »

The ones detached in-combat too?
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