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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 179329 times)

Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2017, 08:36:29 PM »

Lots of nice changes in this!

Some comments about specific things:

Advanced Countermeasures:
  • Level 1: increased to -50% kinetic damage vs armor (was: 20%)
  • Level 2: increased to -25% HE damage vs shields (was: 20%)
  • Level 3: damage to fighters/missiles increased by 50% (was: 30%)
I'm not sure Advanced Countermeasures should even exist to begin with, in light of these changes.
Spoiler
My concern here is: You get things like HVD/Gauss Cannon being moderately effective against some ships' armor while doing nearly nothing to other, visually identical ships, without a readily available indicator of why this should be the case. Likewise with sending fighters against a ship and them Doing Something or getting swatted like flies.

The invisibility aspect is true of many other buffs. But at least with something like a ship having the zero flux bonus with its shield up or its missiles flying faster, the player can easily see what's going on even if they don't know why. The damage calculation is completely hidden except for the final output. And unlike, say, Heavy Armor, the bonus from Advanced Countermeasures doesn't even appear on the stats card.
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Damper Field: damage reduction down to 50% (from 67%), charge regen rate halved (1 per 20 seconds)
If we're going with the nerf as stated (rather than only reducing charge regen, or making the damage reduction scale with hull size, as suggested in that other thread), Brawler and Centurion could stand to receive a compensatory buff perhaps. Centurion in particular doesn't seem to have a combat role at present other than "be annoying to kill".

On FSG: If it's going to inflict such a huge speed penalty I'd say it needs some other buff, like lower upkeep cost (i.e. not ~100 f/s on a Hound). (Or make it cost 0 OP ::))
Spoiler
Perhaps having it vs. not having it was indeed far too dramatic a change for the ships it goes on.

But now I can think of exactly one case where I'd bother using it now: HVD/Mauler sniper Hounds that need to not die to Tactical Laser/Swarmer SRM return fire. For just about any other build, things that don't have a shield and need it to survive... need a 25% speed reduction scarcely any more (Buffalo Mk. II) or arguably even less (Hound, Cerberus). I haven't had a reason to field these ships (with or without shields) in my games as it is, not when I can just get proper warships and cargo haulers in their place.
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« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 08:38:02 PM by Histidine »
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2017, 08:45:47 PM »

Interdiction Pulse. It's cool to see a more aggressive campaign ability. But I'm confused. Is it for stopping fleets from catching you, or stopping fleets from getting away from you?
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2017, 08:46:38 PM »

  • Ion Pulser: ammo regenerates in sets of 3, to match burst size

Has this always been possible? I just got a little idea for ballistic weapons in my personal mod ;)

Yes, it's the basis of cool magazine-based modguns that can benefit from expanded mags
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TaLaR

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2017, 10:55:03 PM »

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New bounties will not spawn near where the player is

It's weird to see world rotate around player that obviously. Plus, it was nice to get extra income for surprise double bounty.

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Interdiction Pulse ability

Maybe it should depend on relative sizes of fleets (both chance to interrupt SB/EB and burn level reduction. With cutoff to 0% if casting fleet is too small)? Having single frigate stop Onslaught armada in it's tracks doesn't feel right.
And would be annoying to no end if spammed by small fleets that like to swarm around player due to being too weak to attack directly.

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Odyssey:
    Increased speed to 90 (was 50), also increased acceleration/deceleration/turn accel

It needed buff, but that much?... DE level speed with ability to almost insta-kill a DE when caught from long range (triple Tachyon Lance under HEF). Even frigates, while they have enough speed to stay safe, are simply not that cautious under AI control, and will likely be easy prey.

Well, at least it will be fun to pilot before it gets it's well deserved nerf.

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Piranha: removed LMG, bombs have an 0.1 second arming time

Just as 0.8 made them finally worth using. I don't think I'll ever prefer a Piranha to Khopesh/Dagger after this change.

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Thunder:
    Range 8000, speed 450, 500 health/75 armor (same as Gladius)
    Armed with Light Dual MG, IR Pulse Laser, Swarmers

Do they have nerfed swarmers like Talons?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:28:09 PM by TaLaR »
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2017, 11:26:40 PM »

Is the Odyssey getting slightly more OP on account of a new fighter slot or is the sweet speed boost good enough? I really like the Odyssey being upgraded to the "speed demon" niche capital—for so long it has just...been there with nothing worth mentioning about it really.

Fighter nerfs abound but that was to be expected, though I'm kinda scratching my head on the IR Pulse Laser tweaks—you got the Gladius that can't support the weapon for more than 2-3 shots before it flux chokes and now you have the Lux with a special "slow" version of the weapon. The Thunder has acquired one too but at least it has the flux to make use of it. It all seems a bit odd.

But hey, the +50 range to light mortar is a buff to Warthogs and the Atropos-equipped bombers are a bit cheaper! But man, the Piranhas have been gutted pretty hard—maybe a slight OP reduction is in order or swap the MG for a Vulcan?
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AxleMC131

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2017, 11:41:20 PM »

  • Ion Pulser: ammo regenerates in sets of 3, to match burst size

Has this always been possible? I just got a little idea for ballistic weapons in my personal mod ;)

If what you mean is "is it possible in the current version", then yes it is. ;) There's another value in the "weapon_data.csv" after "ammo" and "ammo/sec" labelled "reload size", which is the number of charges the weapon reloads in a single instant. It's basically for a clip-based reloading system.
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zaimoni

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2017, 01:03:29 AM »

Re Hounds/Cerebuses:
Re: FSG - if it takes a barely-combat-viable ship and makes it combat-viable, then that by definition is at least bordering on "too strong", isn't it?
One of the highest-utility early-game micro-management orders that doesn't belong in SS is "exactly one of you, eliminate that target".  Use specifically for Hound/Cerebus/Mudskipper Mk II, all of which only need one AI Wolf or AI Lasher to erase if they don't have an FSG.  I'm pretty sure this new order would allow far more mopups of 5 ship or less fleets to be total annihilations.

Gut reaction is that FSG upgrades Hound/Cerebus combat readiness from "just retreat them at battle start if you didn't catch it in fleet deployment" to something in the Hermes shuttle or Kite shuttle range -- wouldn't have a guilt trip activating for all-hands on deck emergencies, but don't activate for anything less.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2017, 02:12:11 AM »

One of the highest-utility early-game micro-management orders that doesn't belong in SS is "exactly one of you, eliminate that target".  Use specifically for Hound/Cerebus/Mudskipper Mk II, all of which only need one AI Wolf or AI Lasher to erase if they don't have an FSG.
Select the ship or ships you want to kill the target, then right-click on the target. This will give an eliminate order that only the selected ships will follow. This also works for escort orders.
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RawCode

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2017, 03:37:05 AM »

Quote
Bounty level goes up with player level even if the player hasn't been doing bounties

one step closer to obvilion in space and difficulty slider.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2017, 05:01:15 AM »

Do they have nerfed swarmers like Talons?

Yes. Thunders make for a great rapid response squad that you can use when something somewhere needs an immediate intervention. They often do need backup ASAP, though.


Quote
Bounty level goes up with player level even if the player hasn't been doing bounties

one step closer to obvilion in space and difficulty slider.

Hardly, bounties are something you have to actively seek out.
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HELMUT

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2017, 05:34:24 AM »

Like other people, i'm also a bit worried with that huge Odyssey buff. I think the second launch bay is a good idea, but the 90 speed change might be too much. While an absurdly fast capital ship will undoubtedly fun to fly, it's also likely to be quite infuriating to fight.

Scenarios similar to the kiting Heron comes to mind, an AI Odyssey would make for a difficult opponent if you don't have an overwhelming amount of firepower and the speed to bring it to the enemy. Even then, you also need to make sure you can get in range while weathering the HEF boosted barrage of fire, not many ships can do that. In the end, a single Odyssey could drag on a battle for a while, devolving the encounter in a CR war.

That's only the theory though. I think testing against an Odyssey would be more important than testing as an Odyssey to avoid making it unfun.

For Damper Field, while it's going to make things easier against the Mora, the two DF frigates are going to suffer quite a bit. I still think that current DF is fine, but only for smaller ships, it's just the Mora that needs... Something. Hopefully, the halved charge rate should be good enough.

About the fighters, while i'm happy with pretty much everything here (Nerfed Talon and Spark, Thunder reworked as a long range interceptor), i'm really surprised by the castration of the Piranha. The Lmg was incredibly useful for shield-breaking and general PD purpose, the bomb arming time will also reduce the efficiency of their point blank bombing runs. It's not like it was a godly bomber to begin with, very situational (only works against slow enemies without flak) and dangerously prone to cause friendly fire, i'm not sure of the why of this nerf. Especially since the very strong Kopesh have been left untouched here.

So... Yeah, if that lmg doesn't come back, perhaps replacing it with something else? How about frag bombs, like in the old days? I remember the battlefield littered by random explosions looking very pretty.
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Flying Birdy

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2017, 06:03:17 AM »

Honestly, the AI running around with S-Burn just seems incredibly scary to me. The AI S-Burn buff (no more sensor penalties), combined with the transverse jump and e-burn nerf, will make escaping patrols absolute hell. I mean, how does one even escape from an AI fleet at 18 burn? Is the only option just to S-Burn as well to get away? Is it possible to E-Burn out of sensor range during the AI's S-Burn windup? Is the T-Jump delay short enough to allow for a T-Jump while the AI windsup its S-Burn?

Its going to be really important to see what circumstances the AI will execute an S-Burn. This might be something that is completely broken and destroy play as a pirate.
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YuiTheModder

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #72 on: May 25, 2017, 06:10:42 AM »

Hi Alex, I was wondering if there are any user interface changes looking to be added in the new update? I feel like a toggle feature for speeding up time and (in combat) ships facing the mouse would be really ergonomic and fab for taking the strain off some tired fingers ^^*.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #73 on: May 25, 2017, 06:37:27 AM »

a heavy mauler is a heavy mauler no matter how crappy the firing platform. With FSG, hopefully there'll be an alternate way of using these in the early game that's not so weapon reliant but isn't straight-up better than the unshielded version.
The problem with Heavy Mauler (and HVD) is it is too rare except maybe by endgame.  Heavy Mauler is rare enough that I usually reload the game if I lose a ship with them.  It is easier for me to replace or recover most ships than Heavy Mauler.

Hound (and other small ships prone to dying) is too fragile to put Heavy Mauler on.  I probably put Arbalest or Heavy Mortar because I would not care if I lose those weapons.  (Similarly, this is why I do not put Railguns and Light Needlers on Lashers.  Lashers die, and they were common enough before 0.8 that replacing them was easier than those weapons.)

As for hullmod taking ships out of garbage tier being too powerful, I do not quite agree with that.  It is about as must-have for unshielded ships as ITU and Resistant Flux Conduits for most ships, Expanded Deck Crew for carriers, Expanded Missile Racks for missileships, and Advanced Optics for some beam ships.  You could say that maxing vents takes a lot of ships out of garbage tier for not having enough dissipation to support weapons and vent fast enough.  For real flux hogs like Mjolnir, player needs extra dissipation from skills to support it and make it worth using.

EDIT:  A ship is garbage tier is bad - so bad that a player would not want to use it in combat ever.  Something that takes a ship out of liability to usefulness can only be a good thing.  It expands useful ship options in combat, not add gamebreakers.  Plus, Hounds are still quite bad even with shields, just not hopeless.  Cerberus with shield was better than Lasher during 0.65, though I do not know of that remains true today.


Lux losing half speed for IR Pulse Laser, why?  They were not very strong offensively, and they are more expensive than Sparks.  With that change, I might ignore Lux and stick with Broadswords.

Re: Piranha.  They would become the low-grade guns of bombers.  (Actually, they already are, but at least they are effective.)  Only good to put on disposable ships if you cannot afford to lose better bomber chips.

I have no problem with Converted Hangar at Fighter Doctrine.  It does complete change ships, and it is very fun, but it is not always must-have for all ships.  It is very good, probably about Flux Distributor level (i.e., very nice to have, but can be sacrificed if ship needs more OP to do its job), but not so vital to be ITU level.  I would probably dump missiles for Converted Hangar, but I would not give up more vital hullmods the ship needs to do its basic job.

If anything, I like to see more hullmods in skills.  For example, Advanced Optics at Gunnery Implants 2 or ITU at Gunnery Implants 3.

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one step closer to obvilion in space and difficulty slider.
I can see that (and I dislike dynamic difficulty that encourages low-level runs or other degenerate stuff), although it could be justified as them getting stronger as time passes like you are.  You do need a source of ships and weapons, and if you cannot buy them, you need to take them from enemies you kill.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 06:43:18 AM by Megas »
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #74 on: May 25, 2017, 06:39:51 AM »

Honestly, the AI running around with S-Burn just seems incredibly scary to me. The AI S-Burn buff (no more sensor penalties), combined with the transverse jump and e-burn nerf, will make escaping patrols absolute hell. I mean, how does one even escape from an AI fleet at 18 burn? Is the only option just to S-Burn as well to get away? Is it possible to E-Burn out of sensor range during the AI's S-Burn windup? Is the T-Jump delay short enough to allow for a T-Jump while the AI windsup its S-Burn?

Its going to be really important to see what circumstances the AI will execute an S-Burn. This might be something that is completely broken and destroy play as a pirate.

You can stop a fleet that's S-burning towards you dead in its tracks with the Interdiction Pulse, and then just walk away casually. You can also try to E-burn at a right angle to dodge it.



Hi Alex, I was wondering if there are any user interface changes looking to be added in the new update? I feel like a toggle feature for speeding up time and (in combat) ships facing the mouse would be really ergonomic and fab for taking the strain off some tired fingers ^^*.

You can revert the behavior of shift in the settings menu. Then you only have to press it of you don't want your ship to follow the cursor.
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