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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.  (Read 6582 times)

Megas

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Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« on: May 22, 2017, 01:22:42 PM »

This is my big feedback post on 0.8.  It is a huge wall of text, so huge it is spoilered in sections, and I will not discuss everything here.  Might start another topic on other details, but maybe not.  For now, read on.

When 0.8 first ran...
Spoiler
I spent about an hour reading the Codex, reading what may have changed.  I spent more time reading fighters and new ships.

I examined a portraits a bit.  Some got touched up, some are new.  The one I like the most is Doomguy's evil and angry pirate red twin with a spikey helmut marked with an X.  A bit too flamboyant though, probably still like classic Doomguy or Tri-Tachyon blue power ranger best.  I could say more about various other portraits, but that is not very useful now.
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Tutorial
Spoiler
Well done overall.  Wolf has a decent starter configuration (though I prefer Heavy Blaster over Pulse Laser).  With Wolf and Shepherd, I did not have any problems with the tutorial.  The only minor problem I had was turning on "Go Dark" too late and I got attacked by the Hammerhead guarding the pirate station.  I was able to kill it and proceed.

My ship graveyard find was luckier than usual, find a Heavy Blaster and two Talon wings.  The fight at the gate is winnable, but there is not much margin for error due to peak performance timers.

Recently, I played through the tutorial several more times.  Some possible problems I noticed:
  • Once, I accidentally and unknowningly pushed either [Q] or [W], and pressing [6] to salvage did not work despite the hint saying so (because I accidentally switched to a second empty page of abilities).  It should be able to handle accidental ability bar page changes.
  • If you do not save, tutorial does not progress.  (I have a habit of constantly saving, so I did not encounter this during my first game, only later when I tried to speed through tutorial.)
  • If you pick Kite instead of Shepherd, and you lose enough heavy machinery from salvaging debris too much, you may not have enough left to properly salvage ships at the graveyard.  (Sometimes, you need to loot debris fields two to four times in a row to get everything useful, despite loss of crew and machinery.)
  • It is too hard to separate the two pirate fleets guarding the gate nearest to Ancyra.  Every time I fought one, I fought the other in one extended battle.  I have not been able to separate the two fleets.  Such a fight is not too hard with either starter, but unless all of my ships have Hardened Subsystems my ships' CR decays to malfunction level by the time I win.  Hardened Subsystems is more important than either Blast Doors or Reinforced Bulkheads for this battle.
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Progression
Spoiler
After finishing the tutorial in Galatia, I stayed behind to clean up pirates in the system, but there were not many to be found.  After the system bounties was near an end, I went to Corvus to finish the tutorial.  I searched for more loose pirates but not enough to make a living at it for long.  Systems seem less populated; a ghost town compared to pre-0.8.

Soon after, I started to hunt for named bounties, and slowly built-up fleet and money along the way.  Found single-ping Remnant systems and discovered what (some of) the Remnants did.

Since I was unfamiliar with the new sector, I decided to remain a free agent and not take a commission, so I do not lock myself out of useful bases.  Without commission, I was unable to buy many useful ships and weapons (and hullmods).  In addition, for most of the game, reputation for non-Hegemony factions was fairly low across the board, so I could not buy many items from Independents due to lack of relations.  Nearly all of the ships I found were recovered from battle.  Restoring them was expensive enough that I did not bother except for a Hyperion or two.  For most ships, if I lose it, I can always recover another soon enough.  As for weapons, I relied on stuff I could buy from Open Market or those common at Black Markets (such as Pulse Lasers and some others).

By midgame, when level was in the late-30's, my fleet grew big enough that maintaining it was getting difficult.  I needed the fleet to kill bounties, but I knew that soon, they would upgrade to capitals before I could, and I could not sustain it.  All it would take is one battle gone horribly wrong for my character to be crippled for a long time.

For a while, I put the fleet in storage and tried some exploration missions.  About a one thousand credits later, I resumed bounty hunting.  Soon after, I fought my first capital, a Legion, and I recovered it after battle.  With that, I could fight more bounties with capital, though probably not one with a Paragon.  I needed something with more power.  Later, I fought a fleet with an Astral, and recovered that.  Piloting the Astral with Degraded Engines was a pain, but I needed the bomber power to kill things fast, and I needed to pilot the Astral myself to make it stay near the front line.  Eventually, I found my prize, the Paragon.  Once I recovered that, my fleet could take on any single fleet.

All that was left was to look for Remnant battlestations.  I fought more bounties to raise enough money to buy thousands of supplies and fuel, and once I had enough stockpiled, I went exploring.  I found a double ping system, and fought bigger Remnant fleets - and a damaged battlestation - for the first time.  Nothing that an endgame fleet cannot handle.  After that, I went looking for the infamous triple ping system.  Fleets are more of the same.  The hero battlestation was on another level.  My default clunker fleet was not quite enough.  With a saved game, I experimented with various skills and discovered the power of max sensor jamming from max Electronic Warfare and Command & Control stacking.

After dealing with that, all that was left is find more rare weapons and an Odyssey.  I eventually found an Odyssey, but some of the hullmods were too elusive.  At that point, I cheated by loading game in devmode, played with reputation options and bought all of the rare weapons and hullmods I could not get otherwise.  I had plenty of ships, but not enough weapons and hullmods.  Even with that, I still could not find Converted Hangar at that time, so I spent some skill points and loots a research station to get it.
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About ship recovery
Spoiler
I like it!  It is much better than boarding of previous versions.  Ships that used to be extremely rare to buy or board are usually much easier to acquire.  If a battle does not cough up the ship I want to recover, I can reload (save-scum) and it is generally offered for boarding after a few attempts at most.  Because ships are easier to obtain, I save-scum much less than I used to.  Actually, I am more likely to save-scum if I lose rare weapons than ships, although for most ships, I mount common low-grade weapons that are easily replaced.

Because restoration is so costly, I do not bother restoring most ships.  If I did, then I would reload games as soon as that ship is lost in battle.  Thus, I reserve it only for few ships that absolutely need full power stats, like Hyperion, or special ships that are hard to acquire even with recovery, such as XIV ships.
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Hullmods
Spoiler
Some hullmods are too rare.  Many of the best are available only at Tri-Tachyon/Persean League military markets or possible lucky drop from a mining/research station (with max Salvaging).

Without Loadout Design 3, you have just enough OP to afford the basics, some to max vents, and maybe a hullmod or two.

Top general hullmods:
  • Dedicated Targeting Core / Integrated Targeting Unit - So important that even the tooltip mentions it.  The rare ship that relies exclusively on missiles or fighters can ignore this.
  • Resistant Flux Conduits - This is your only source of EMP resistance in the game.  It also speeds up venting.

For carriers, Expanded Deck Crew is vital.  No such thing as too fast replacements, especially when bigger enemy ships eat fighters like popcorn.

Other hullmods like Advanced Optics, Expanded Magazines, and Expanded Missile Racks are very important for various specialist ships.

Flux Distributor is much more useful.  It went from never take to one of the best hullmods to take if you have leftover OP.  Flux Coil Adjunct is much less useful due to (super) max capacitors being much less important that other things, but at least the flux hullmods have a point.

Unstable Injector, as I wrote elsewhere, is generally useless for most ships.  The -25% penalty is excessive, and when I tried it, my ships were outranged so badly that the extra speed did not make up the penalty.  For ships that need more speed, Safety Override is better.  However, Unstable Injector is useful for ships that do not (need to) use conventional weapons.  For example, Drover with fighters only and no weapons can kite well with Unstable Injector.
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Combat
Spoiler
Without the speed from before 0.8 (no hullmods, less skill power), combined with much more... conservative AI, combat features important changes:
  • Combat is much slower paced than before, and fights last longer, and long enough that peak performance is a big deal for many ships, not just high-tech frigates or solo-battlers only.  The pace is so slow that I gave in and editted settings.json to raise game speed from 1f to 2f.  After a short while, 2f has felt natural (yet still a bit slow paced at times).  Raising speed only makes the game feel better, not address peak performance problems that my ships have if I do not prepare accordingly.
  • Because both sides have comparable speed, shot range is more important than before.  AI will generally (but not always) kite, and if they have a range advantage, they will try to exploit it.  However, sometimes, ships with inferior shot range but superior speed and firepower may try to rush at the opponent and attack.

AI is generally cowardly.  Ships kite and turtle much more unless they sense an advantage.  When they happens they charge at the target and try to take it down fast.  Because AI hesitates more, peak performance is more important than before.

AI is also less reliant on shields.  Kinetic is not as super important as it used to be.  Having some anti-armor, even if it is any non-kinetic with more DPS, is more useful than before to quicken kill times.  Before, the way to win most fights is to pound shields until flux is high and the enemy cannot fight, and you win.  Now, combined with slower ships and more willingness to take hits on armor or hull, kinetic spam is not always optimal.

Soloing fleets is not really possible anymore because the one ship that can be powerful enough to kill anything (Paragon) does not have the means to force fights, and when faster and weaker ships are ready to attack the Paragon, they do it en masse and the Paragon cannot defend against overwhelming numbers.  Other ships are not quite strong enough or, in Hyperion's case, lack the stamina to kill too many ships.  Player will need a fleet to kill fleets.

As a result of slower ships and more intelligent enemy AI, I rarely bother playing out pursuit after battles I win.  I auto-resolve pursuit and collect whatever easy kills the game gives me.

Killing battlestations is fun.  There needs to be a renewable source of them (not necessarily Remnants) as there are for faction fleets.  Currently, killing battlestations is like killing the golden goose that lays the golden eggs, if Remnant fleets a battlestation in the system to respawn.  Battlestations are like abandoned research stations that you need to fight instead of max Salvaging and click salvage for loot.
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Skills
Spoiler
I ignored skills during my playthrough because I wanted to see how effective an unskilled character can be and to save points for experimentation later.

Throughout much of the game, I tried Surveying and Salvaging.  Once I learned what those did, I realized that they are merely early-game crutch skills, meaning the player can sacrifice endgame power for a significantly easier start.  I do not like to weaken my characters for a crutch start, and I really dislike putting three in Salvaging just to get hullmods I cannot buy unless I join Tri-Tachyon or Persean League.  (Although with cores, I have considered grinding for cores, then when I have enough, take a commission to access things I want to buy, then when I get enough, annull the commission, then turn in cores to fix reputation enough so that factions stop shooting at me!)

Similarly, much as I like to max the battlestation killer skills, if they do not help too much in normal combat against fleets (and I doubt that will save my Paragon from getting overwhelmed by forty plus frigates or similar), I do not want to max Command & Control and Electronic Warfare just so Paragon can fry the few hero battlestations in the sector flawlessly.

As for officers, when I kept getting carrier skills I did not want, I just gave up and ignored officers.  If selecting skills for officers was not so painful, Officer Management would definitely be a must-have skill, though whether or not to max depends on your battle map size.  After all, ten officers does you little good if you can only deploy four to six ships in the endgame due to small(er) battle map size.

I will save more detailed commentary for another post, but for now...
  • Leadership has two very powerful skills useful for everyone, Fleet Logistics and Fighter Doctrine.  Fleet Logistics has some quality-of-life stuff at one and two, then a very powerful all-purpose boost for the fleet at 3.  If you fleet uses carriers often (and carriers are very good now), you will want all of the fighter boosts for the whole fleet.  Also, if you want to use a carrier late in the game (e.g., Legion or any warship with Converted Hangar), then your fighters need some boosts to survive more easily and not drain replacement rate so quickly.
  • Technology has at least one, Loadout Design.  If you want to use more than a minimally effective configuration, you need the extra +10% OP.  Also, technology has two of the best pilot-only skills useful for all (Gunnery Implants and Power Grid Modulation) and one of the most best quality-of-life skills (Navigation).  Electronic Warfare can also be powerful.

If you want to be a solo combat monster through skill power, forget it!  There are not enough points to max all of the pilot only skills, and even then, the boosts are unusually not enough to let the ship be much more effective than an unskilled ship.

Level cap of 40 seems too low.  I can reach that while still in midgame before my fleet or the enemy uses capital ships.  I might have enough skill points to get everything my fleet needs to be good and then maybe a few max skills of my choice.

Personally, I got to have my sporty ride, so I will have Combat 2 and put 1 in Evasive Maneuvers and 2 in Helmsmanship.  (I would love 3 for any flagship with a fighter bay, but that might be too high an opportunity cost to spend two more skill points for that minor convenience.)  In addition, I need to dissipate and vent as fast as possible, especially if I use Hyperion or any other ship with flux intensive configuration (such as capitals with Mjolnir).  Thus, Power Grid Modulation 3.
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Ships
Spoiler
I will save more detailed individual commentary for some ships for another topic, but here are some comments about things I noticed during the game:

Fuel capacity for ships is less.  With fuel and travel much more important, a tanker is required for most trips beyond core worlds.  I bet even with their old capacities, a tanker would still be required for extreme round-trip journeys.  I would like to see ships get their old capacities back so that I might only need one supertanker (Prometheus) instead of two by endgame.  Maybe once we can build our on fuel outpost that reduced fuel capacity might make sense, but for now, the fuel capacities are too low.

Carriers are the new power option.  Nothing outruns fighters.  In solo simulator fights, an unskilled Drover optimized for fighters can solo anything non-carrier up to cruiser-size.  With fighter skills, Drover can solo Conquest and Onslaught.  Also, Condor is not the joke it used to be.  That does not mean a carrier-only fleet is optimal.  It is a good idea to have some gunships to protect your carriers and blast the enemy.  Paragon is probably the strongest ship in the game.  Hyperion can still teleport to bypass shields (of AI ships) and assassinate some targets with dual Mining Blasters, although it may not be able to solo as much due to less power (meaning more time taken to kill ships).

Without the speed and range boosts from earlier versions, Wolf and Medusa cannot dominate battles like they used to.  Combined with general high-tech weaknesses, all it takes is one mistake or miscalculation and your ship is flux-locked and done.

Similarly, Enforcer cannot kite like it used to.  The AI kites more, and the Enforcer cannot keep up like it used to.  Its weak shield means it cannot take too many hits.  Enforcer still has its uses, but it may need higher-grade weaponry to perform well.  Enforcer that tries to do what Hammerhead can do with low-grade weaponry will probably overload then die.  However, at least Enforcer can use flak and is able to defend itself against fighters a bit better than some other competitors.

Hammerhead is much improved.  Combined with ammo feeder not driving up flux faster than usual, enough OP to get what it needs, and the arrival of Heavy Mortar, Hammerhead is very good, maybe better than Enforcer now.  More accurately, Hammerhead is probably better suited to use low-grade ballistics than Enforcer, due to the mounts' location on the ships.  In other words, Hammerhead will outrange Enforcer if both ships use the same weapons against each other, and Hammerhead has much better shields.

Aurora is much improved.  While it is still stuck with awfully short-ranged energy weapons, its higher top speed plus new Plasma Jets special removes the speed weakness.  Aurora can be very fast when it wants to and either force fights against ships trying to flee or run away to safety and recover.  It feels like playing a Blackrock ship.  The change to one of its medium mounts to Synergy lets Aurora play missile boat if it wants instead.

Apogee is practically a hybrid ship now, similar to the Mule.  Not very fast, and shot range no better than low-grade ballistics makes it a less-than-ideal combat ship, at least for assault.  Maybe it can still tank, but I have not tried that; but if all I want is a tank, Mora can do that plus send fighters to kill things, and Mora is much easier to obtain.

Venture is clearly a civilian ship now; not something you want to add to your war fleet.  It may be alright if you capture one in Galatia and use it as a meat shield early, but I would not want to use it in my endgame combat fleet.

Despite the speed loss, Heron is still fast enough to kite-and-snipe.

Mora is effective, like all carriers.  It is tanky, and it takes Hyperion about a minute or two longer to kill than Heron thanks to its defenses.  (Heron can kite, but not against Hyperion.)  Nothing more to say that was not said before.

Colossus fills the cruiser-sized freighter niche missing for a while.

Astral went from nobody to nightmare.  Fighter Recall combines wonderfully with bombers.  Astral's main job now is bomber spam, and it is devastatingly effective against large ships.  Astral is one of the stronger capitals, maybe on par with Onslaught.  Not as good as Paragon though.

Paragon also went back to being a fearsome ship thanks to Advanced Targeting Core hullmod.  No longer can a cruiser with long-range ballistics solo a Paragon almost flawlessly.  Paragon is probably the most powerful ship in the game, if the enemy tries to fight it.  That is the Paragon's greatest weakness; it cannot force a fight against an enemy that refuses to fight.

Conquest is much like it was before; it can deal a bunch of damage, but it cannot take it.  One of the weaker capitals, but nowhere near the disappointment that is Odyssey.  The built-in Heavy Ballistics Integration hullmod is nice.  Without that hullmod, it would be a better idea for unskilled Conquest to put Maulers or HVDs in the heavy mounts due to range and flux efficiency.  With the OP discount, it is a good idea to mount the heavy weapons.  If flux usage is a problem, then use the common low-grade heavy weapons, which are effective enough, or Devastator to supplement PD.

Odyssey is a big disappointment.  Only one fighter bay and nothing else to fix the terrible combination of slow speed and poor shot range Aurora and Paragon used to suffer.  Odyssey is the worst combat capital overall.  Any other capital either outguns or outranges it (or both).  The best I can do with Odyssey is give it three plasma cannons (for maximum shot power and range) and blast things fast before it dies.  I tried three Guardian PD lasers and the rest IR Pulse Lasers, and while effective against things in range, Odyssey cannot force fights against the things it can kill.  Its lone fighter bay is like having built-in Converted Hangar, except it is useful for bombers if you want them.  But given Odyssey's shortcomings, a good non-bomber fighter wing is more reliable.  Something like Broadswords to pound at shields or Xyphos as auxiliary ion beams seem to work better.  Even changing the system from High Energy Focus to Reserve Deployment would be an improvement, if nothing else changes, although it would be sad to see High Energy Focus gone since it seems thematic for Odyssey to power-up guns and obliterate stuff, even if it lacks the speed and shot range to engage many enemy ships effectively.

Legion is a great new addition.  It is like an Onslaught that trades some guns for fighters.  Not as good as Paragon, but it can go toe-to-toe with any another capital, given the proper configuration.  Having lots of fighters makes it good for sweeping small ships while still having enough firepower to brawl with nearly anything else.  Legion's only major weakness is lack of guns pointing backwards.  It has to rely purely on fighters to defend the rear.  Legion has overtaken the Odyssey and stole all of its thunder.
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Fighters
Spoiler
They are much more useful attackers than before, despite being demoted from a ship to a weapon.  At least they do not take fleet slots.  Since fighters have changed much, below is commentary for most of them.

  • Talons:  Overpowered for their cost.  By that, I mean you get the performance of about an 8 OP fighter for the cost of 0 OP.  Fast yet not too fragile.  With Swarmers and Vulcan, they wreck unshielded targets.  Other fighters may be more powerful, but cost much more OP and are not as common to find.  Because Talons replenish quickly, and wing needs to be reduced to two before rate starts falling, Talons are reliable.  I bet if Talons only had three per wing, they will be harder to sustain due to the two-thirds rule, but they would probably still be good at 0 OP.
  • Wasps:  Very fragile and easy to kill, which often leads to Wasps draining the carrier's replacement rate quickly.  Otherwise, they are okay, but not as good as other fighters.  No crew required is nice, but not enough.
  • Broadswords:  Good if you need fighters to put pressure on shields.  Also relatively easy to acquire.
  • Claw:  Nice for disabling enemies.  One of the better fighter wings in the game, if mixed in with something else that causes real damage.
  • Gladius:  Basically a faster but more fragile Broadsword.  Overall, a disappointment that is not as effective as Broadswords, despite being more expensive.  Are their flux stats good enough to support all of their weapons?  Probably should not cost more than 8 OP, if Broadswords and Thunders stay at 8 OP.
  • Thunder:  Basically a deluxe Talon and Claw hybrid.  Nearly as fragile as a Talon, but only two per wing and take more time to replace.  They are decent, but a wing of Talons is nearly as effective for less cost.
  • Piranha:  A bit slow, but they hit hard.  I prefer Khopesh, but Piranha will suffice if I need a bomber chip I can afford to install on a disposable clunker and lose in battle.
  • Longbow:  Their role is unique among fighters, and they are effective at it, which is hard flux spikes on shields or wrecking hull.  Great for Astral.
  • Khopesh:  Nearly as effective as Daggers for a fraction of the cost.  Probably the best bomber in the game, with a balance of high power and cheap enough OP cost.  Daggers may be a bit better, but paying twice as much OP for that hurts.
  • Warthogs:  Costs a bit much OP (should be worth 8 or 10 OP, not 12), and usually too slow, but they can be effective against unshielded targets if carrier stays close enough to the enemy and mitigate Warthogs' slow speed.  Combines with Broadswords well.
  • Xyphos:  Durable and good for the role they were designed for - flux-free auxiliary ion beams.  Good choice for warships with a single fighter bay (from Converted Hangar).
  • Dagger:  Good bomber, but very expensive.  Astral can afford one or two.
  • Trident:  Too expensive (at 28 OP) and slower than Daggers.  Not worth it for a fourth torpedo.  I think I will stick with Daggers or, better yet, Khopesh.

As for Remnant chips...
  • Sparks:  Super Wasps!  They seem overpowered like Talons.  Several wings will sweep chaff rather quickly.  Very good, probably the best of the Remnant chips that can be looted..
  • Lux:  Good (but rare) Broadsword substitute because enemy needs to kill two instead of one before replacement rate gets hurt.  May not be quite as effective as Sparks at killing things, but Lux are a bit more durable.
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Weapons
Spoiler
Some of the best weapons are flux hogs and need skill power to use effectively.  For example, Mjolnir is still one of the best weapons in the game, but unskilled ships do not have the flux stats to use it for long.  If player wants to use high-powered weapons to their full potential, he will need to get all of the dissipation and venting skills on top of installing fewer assault weapons to do so.

Energy weapons are still not readily available in open market.  Players still need to shop at military or black markets to buy nearly any energy weapon.  At the very least, mining blaster should be in open market.  Maybe others like PD laser too.

I will reserve most of the individual weapon commentary for later.  For now, I will comment mostly on new or changed weapons.

Heavy Mortar is great.  It fills the void of medium-range medium-sized HE weapon.  Heavy Mortars and either Arbalests or Light Autocannons are a cheap, common, and usable combination available to many ships.  Despite slow shots, Heavy Mortar is better than the classic pre-Safety Override era Assault Chaingun that had 700 range, terrible accuracy, and costs 10 OP to mount.

While Thumper remains mediocre, it is (barely) no longer so bad that literally anything else is better.  It is quick to use and it can pick off unarmored targets fast.  If it had 700 range, it could compete with the other low-grade weapons.  At 600 range, I am not sure I want to use it despite the improvements.

With Hellbore Cannon firing only half as fast as it used to, Mark IX autocannon appears more attractive as a default assault weapon despite staying the same as before.  Hellbore is still a decent weapon obtainable from Open Market, just not best-in-class powerful like it used to be.  Hellbore's niche is both superb anti-armor and easy Heavy Mauler substitute (much like Arbalest is a Railgun substitute).

Devastator is another welcome addition.  Good as an assault and secondary PD combo package.  By itself, Devastator fires too slowly to be reliable PD, but it is good backup for other PD weaponry that would otherwise be overwhelmed.  It is also a good assault weapon choice for a Dominator with Safety Override because it is flux efficient and most of the shots explode at Safety Override's range limit instead of a large random range.

Storm Needler is useful and powerful again.  With no windup delay, Storm Needler is much easier to use than before.  Probably remains not as good as Mjolnir, though.

Mjolnir probably remains the most powerful weapon in the game overall, but the higher flux cost combined with less skill power makes it hard to support.  Player that wants to fire this continuously will need skills and build for it.  Unskilled ships are better off with more flux-efficient weapons like Hellbore or Mark IX.

Hammer Barrage feels like an Annihilator launcher that shoots Hammers instead of rockets.  One thing going for it is it can be found and bought at Open Market, but it seems somewhat difficult to buy due to not spawning very often much like Mining Lasers.

I read that LR PD Laser got its turning rate speed up to match PD Laser.  I tried it, mainly because Tactical Laser is not as common and IPDAI hullmod was not available.  LR PD Laser has some use, mainly on Falcon or Eagle, but mostly as a Tac Laser substitute that can do PD on the side.  LR PD Laser is still underpowered and has too high a flux cost.  LR PD laser would be fine if it either had more DPS (60 or even 75) or less flux cost (75 to match tac laser); maybe cost 4 OP like PD or Tac laser too.  For basic PD purposes, normal PD laser is still better for better damage, efficiency, and OP cost.  The damage is too low to stop more than a stray missile or two.
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Other miscellaneous comments
Spoiler
Distress Calls are not worth answering.  The first time I found one, it was legit, but the money they offered would not have covered the fuel consumed to go out of my way and back.  In other words, helping them would have been a net loss of credits.  Later, after I built up an even bigger fleet and had lots of fuel to spare, when I tried to answer more calls, either I find no one or there were three small pirate fleets that fled from my endgame fleet.  Because distress calls are nothing but pain, I ignore all of them.  Would not mind seeing them removed from the game.

Remnants feel much like the Knights Templar (powerful NPC faction, light blue color), despite having mostly the same hardware as high-tech ships.  They have nice fighters though.  At least I can loot few weapons that are too hard to buy elsewhere.

Thanks to AI cores, player finally has a way to reverse Vengeful relations (except for pirates).  Because cores can be farmed, I have considered joining either Tri-Tachyon or Persean League to buy Mjolnirs, Tachyon Lances, and various hullmods I cannot get any other way; and when I get enough, annull the commission then turn in cores to enemies and make them stop shooting at me.

I get the feeling the plot will head toward a third AI war with you as the unskilled but strong idiot or ditzy hero like in a shonen anime/manga.

Reserve Deployment is a very powerful system for carriers.  Replacement Rate drops only when a wing has two-thirds or less of a full wing, right?  Use reserve deployment to not only stop the bleeding, but also raise replacement rate slowly back up to 100%!  Even better, the carrier can vent and the fighters are still out!  Targeting Feed, while good, is not as good as this!

I like the new fleet cap of thirty.  I can match other fleets if I want to instead of getting outnumbered constantly in 0.7x.  That said, I noticed that the number of ships offered for recovery is capped by your remaining fleet slots.  For example, if I only have two slots left, I will not get more than two ships offered for recovery.  If there is a particular ship I want to recover, I cannot bring too many ships or else I drastically lower the chances to see the ship I want to recover.  Still, it is nice too not be constantly outnumbered by endgame.
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Example configurations
Spoiler
I will end this post with some configurations with normal OP totals (i.e., no Loadout Design 3).  I do not want to get too wild with these.  Posting favorite configurations is worth its own post.

Hyperion
Capacitors: 9
Vents: 10
Weapons:  2x Mining Blaster, 2x IR Pulse Laser
Hullmods:  Extended Shields, Flux Distributor, Hardened Subsystems, Resistant Flux Conduits

Missile hardpoints are empty because we have no more OP to spare for this configuration to work.  Without all of the extras from the old skill system, Hyperion might be able to fire Heavy Blasters twice before it needs to teleport.  Forget that! Just do as much damage once then get out, and Mining Blasters are the best at that.  Since teleporting and mining blasters generate lots of flux, venting speed is critical!  IR pulse lasers are for shielded targets or those that blasters cannot hit easily.  Hyperion can shield tank somewhat and blast frigates with IR Pulse Lasers.  Against Doom, it usually does not bother phasing if shot it with IR Pulse Lasers alone, just teleport behind it and let IR Pulse Lasers do the work.  With this configuration, Hyperion has enough flux to teleport four times and fire both Mining Blasters, if IR Pulse Lasers do not fire.  Against Paragon, IR Pulse Lasers should be turned off, so that Hyperion can double teleport, fire, double teleport, vent, and repeat.


Medusa (Disposable)
Capacitors: 15
Vents: 20
Weapons:  2x Pulse Laser, 2x Ion Cannon, 2x Light Autocannon, 3x PD Laser
Hullmods:  Flux Distributor

Light Autocannons in the universals, ion cannons in front two energy mounts, and PD Lasers at the back.  The weapons are not the best, but with generous flux stats, they get the job done, and all of them are relatively common items.  Light Autocannons are from Open Market, and the rest are either relatively common Black Market stock or loot from pirates.


Medusa (Elite)
Capacitors: 0
Vents: 19
Weapons:  1x Heavy Blaster, 1x Ion Beam, 2x Light Needler, 5x PD Laser
Hullmods:  Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduits

This one is designed to kite as best it can by driving up hard flux then paralyze the enemy with Ion Beam.  Once the enemy is crippled, approach and pound target with Heavy Blaster and more needles.


Eagle (Disposable)
Capacitors: 14
Vents: 30
Weapons:  2x Arbalest, 1x Heavy Mortar, 3x LR PD Laser, 3x Graviton Beam, 2x PD Laser, 2X Harpoon MRM (Single)
Hullmods:  Dedicated Targeting Core, Flux Distributor, Resistant Flux Conduits

Again, this uses relatively common items, and Resistant Flux Conduits is probably acquired by the time player can get an Eagle.  Made for clunkers to be sent to the front line to fight and die.  Not the best configuration, but it is effective enough.


Eagle (Elite)
Capacitors: 0
Vents: 26
Weapons:  2x Hypervelocity Driver, 1x Heavy Mauler, 3x LR PD Laser, 2x Graviton Beam, 1x Ion Beam, 2x PD Laser, 2X Harpoon MRM (Single)
Hullmods:  Integrated Targeting Unit, Flux Distributor, Resistant Flux Conduits

This one is better equipped and built for kiting.  One Ion Beam works wonders at bypassing shields and crippling targets at times.
[close]

THE END!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 01:24:20 PM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2017, 01:48:59 PM »

Thank you for the detailed feedback, that was a great read :)

Made a few notes!
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SCC

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2017, 02:53:02 PM »

Circa 6000 words! I'm impressed, even if I wanted to, I couldn't write that much (at least in one sitting - my guides are mostly mine opinions and count 3,5k words).

Quote
Throughout much of the game, I tried Surveying and Salvaging.
I'd say that there's generally a problem with Industry tree being nothing but cushioning - gives access to almost risk-free easy money, lets you salvage more ships as well as recover more from mining/research stations, makes your own losses less of a problem. (yes, yes, I know it's a placeholder)
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Dedicated Targeting Core / Integrated Targeting Unit - So important that even the tooltip mentions it.  The rare ship that relies exclusively on missiles or fighters can ignore this.
I've been putting this one on every possible ship before, but in 0.8a it feels semi-mandatory. There simply is no reason not to do it and there's no other hullmod I spam so much. Except for RFC for mine ships for venting bonus and hardened subsystems for every time-manipulating ship.
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If you want to be a solo combat monster through skill power, forget it!
Before it was combat > fleet, now combat < fleet... I wonder if/when it will flip again.
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Hammerhead is much improved.  Combined with ammo feeder not driving up flux faster than usual, enough OP to get what it needs, and the arrival of Heavy Mortar, Hammerhead is very good, maybe better than Enforcer now.
Hammerhead also has a "twice the firepower for free!" button, which for a short time allows it to outgun every destroyer, either much (no weapons in closer hybrid) or very much (weapons in closer hybrid). It feels like a Conquest in its class with proportionally better defences.
Quote
Odyssey is a big disappointment. [...] Legion has overtaken the Odyssey and stole all of its thunder.
About Odyssey, it's so true it's painful. It feels like it's supposed to be a beamboat because it doesn't have enough high-tech mobility to offset high-tech short range of other weapons. 1 fighter wing doesn't make much difference.
Legion, on the other hand, is (I think) better than Odyssey ever was. Weapon mounts on their own feel good enough to push it into battlecruiser territory, but it also gets fighters!
Quote
  • Talons:  Overpowered for their cost.  By that, I mean you get the performance of about an 8 OP fighter for the cost of 0 OP.  Fast yet not too fragile.  With Swarmers and Vulcan, they wreck unshielded targets.  Other fighters may be more powerful, but cost much more OP and are not as common to find.  Because Talons replenish quickly, and wing needs to be reduced to two before rate starts falling, Talons are reliable.  I bet if Talons only had three per wing, they will be harder to sustain due to the two-thirds rule, but they would probably still be good at 0 OP.
  • Gladius:  Basically a faster but more fragile Broadsword.  Overall, a disappointment that is not as effective as Broadswords, despite being more expensive.  Are their flux stats good enough to support all of their weapons?  Probably should not cost more than 8 OP, if Broadswords and Thunders stay at 8 OP.
  • Khopesh:  Nearly as effective as Daggers for a fraction of the cost.  Probably the best bomber in the game, with a balance of high power and cheap enough OP cost.  Daggers may be a bit better, but paying twice as much OP for that hurts.
  • Lux:  Good (but rare) Broadsword substitute because enemy needs to kill two instead of one before replacement rate gets hurt.  May not be quite as effective as Sparks at killing things, but Lux are a bit more durable.
Talons are extremely good against frigates and Medusas due to weak armour and are too good for their OP. Gladiuses IIRC do use flux to fire their weapons, which mean they choke on IR lasers extra quick. Khopeshes not only are good bombers, their payload is probably second-best after Trident's, in terms of raw damage. And Lux... Are they good? I thought that they'd choke on IR lasers too and I wanted more that 6 LMGs of Broadswords, so Lux remained in storage.
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That said, I noticed that the number of ships offered for recovery is capped by your remaining fleet slots.
I'm SO happy that I moved ship cap to 100 purely out of spite for caps!

...I'm much better at reactive writing than proactive.

Wyvern

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2017, 03:07:41 PM »

And Lux... Are they good? I thought that they'd choke on IR lasers too and I wanted more that 6 LMGs of Broadswords, so Lux remained in storage.
Lux are pretty good - and they don't have flux problems, because they have... I believe it's an invisible hull mod that Alex used to make weapons on shielded fighters not cost flux?

That said, I personally find Gladius to be pretty good as well; I actually prefer them to broadswords - the extra speed noticeably improves their survivability, and even with flux limitations, the ir pulse laser means they can punch through frigate-grade armor all on their own.  (Still, I'll take Lux over Gladius when I can - though I'll admit part of that is less a deliberate analysis of comparative utility and more a personal preference for un-crewed fighters.)

Then again, I also much prefer Dagger / Trident over Khopesh or any of the bombers; for me, the vastly improved accuracy & lack of friendly fire issues justifies the ordnance point cost.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Dri

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 03:10:27 PM »

Dayum, you're giving Helmut's massive feedback posts a run for their money!

Always nice to see players feeling so passionate about a game that they'd take the time to write it all out!
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SCC

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2017, 03:13:56 PM »

I was talking about inital impression - I now know they have "no_weapon_flux" hullmod and because of that I think Lux are pretty decent, better than Gladiuses due to IR pulse lasers being better and having more fighters per wing and having shields... Frigate-punchability isn't very important because I don't run carrierfleets which means whatever fighters I have are bombers, interceptors or make ships susceptible to bombers.
Khopeshes make for fine bombers until you find tridents because of raw damage + high reliability, while friendly fire is MUCH more tame than Flashs'/Piranhas'...

Megas

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »

Oh, I could extend the post much longer had I bothered to comment on everything on detail like skills and weapon balance.  I did not write everything in one sitting.

The one skill from Industry that might be useful for combat is Safety Procedures.  Second level is a way to extend time without malfunctions.  The problem is if the player is the sort to wait until the malfunction alarm goes off, it is too late to retreat AI ships if it goes off at 20% instead of 40%.  It would be great for soloing fleets if that still mattered.  Now, level 3 is really good if you plan to fight with mostly clunker/zombies, to make D-mod penalties insignificant, but that assumes player does not grind long enough to afford being able to restore everything on demand and more.  In my case, there is no way I would get to that point unless I cheat, although if I played as long as I level-ground characters in Diablo 2, I probably could get enough weapons and money to do whatever without relying on clunkers.

The best boat beams have some way to put hard flux on shields.  Even my Paragon needs its two HVDs to backup electric death from four Tachyon Lances (or dual Ion Beam and dual HILs).  Odyssey could do that with fighters if it had more of them.  One wing is insufficient.  Two wings and/or Reserve Deployment might.

I guess Legion could be a battlecruiser, but a well configured one feels somewhere between battlecruiser and full-blown battleship.  A Legion with the best stuff is up there with Onslaught and Astral.  Maybe not Paragon level, but Legion is powerful enough to fight Paragon (and Onslaught) and have a chance to win.

The thing about Lux, that I did not realize at first, is Lux is about as tanky as Broadswords, but there are four instead of three.  It might not be as efficient at killing like Sparks, but it can take more hits.  What got me to try Lux instead of Broadswords or Warthogs is wing size.  With four fighters per wing, the enemy needs to kill two Lux before replenish rate starts falling.  Enemy only needs to kill one Broadsword to do the same.  If you need a distraction to put some pressure and/or minor damage on the enemy and not die immediately, Lux might work better instead of Broadswords or Sparks.

Whenever I try Gladius, they just die too fast.  Only two per wing and they cost 12 OP.  I had better results with Broadswords.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2017, 06:47:26 PM »

I think the Odyssey could use an increase to two fighter bays, but otherwise remain unchanged.

Embolism

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2017, 08:12:15 PM »

I feel Odyssey could benefit from Plasma Jets like the Aurora. That, or HEF could also boost energy weapon range while active.

If HEF boosts range the TT Brawler could have it too, given it's a slow, clumsy midline forced to use energy weapons balanced for speedy, short-ranged high techs.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2017, 08:41:08 PM »

Plasma Jets on a capital ship would be insane, really not a fan of that idea at all. It would make it far too fast, and worst still godly at kiting... And even worse still, it would often be moving faster than its own fighters least slower types.

Also think of it this way. Mobility systems are common on capships, but direct firepower enhancements? Not so much.

Embolism

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2017, 08:44:37 PM »

Plasma Jets on a capital ship would be insane, really not a fan of that idea at all. It would make it far too fast, and worst still godly at kiting... And even worse still, it would often be moving faster than its own fighters least slower types.

Also think of it this way. Mobility systems are common on capships, but direct firepower enhancements? Not so much.

Cut the firing arc of the Odyssey's starboard cannon and it effectively can only bring two large energy weapons to bear, without HEF's boost. I don't think it would be that insane, it would be similar to the Conquest except with energy weapon's range weakness. As a beam boat I think the current Odyssey would be superior with three large Tachyons and HEF, so I wouldn't worry about it being too good at kiting either.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2017, 08:47:29 PM »

I more or less *did* make an Odyssey with two fighter bays, and it works quite well, I think. You get some extra flexibility, it's effectively 'extra range', and it fits thematically with high tech's tendency to use fighters and missiles over direct fire weapons.
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Drokkath

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2017, 11:11:40 PM »

Yikes. I'm not much of a reader as I hate reading books for over a decade ago now, I only do light/bare minimum reading and rarely read something much longer if it interests me enough. So I'm only replying because of the length of the post. I did however read some of the spoiler tagged stuff though.

Can't comment on them though really as I don't deal with some aspects of the game. Like leveling-up, thinking strategies, thinking tactics, thinking of math; X this and Y that, then thinking of what ship to use with default config settings. Most of those things I just mentioned are things I just intentionally bypass to a bare-minimum to keep my health in check.
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For I dipt in to the future, far as my gazer eye could see; Saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be.

spudcosmic

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 03:44:10 PM »

I think you're missing the role play aspect of this RPG. NPC distress calls are the counterpart to the player's own ability to make distress calls and help the world feel more alive. The reward could be adjusted based on the size of the fleet you're helping but they absolutely shouldn't be removed from the game. Also I don't think the speed of combat has really changed, of course I've always played with fleets and never solo'd with a large ship. I can see how the enemies no longer throwing themselves to their death at the player's single ship could affect the speed of things. Other than than I think this is some great feedback.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 03:56:29 PM by spudcosmic »
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Megas

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Re: Massive wall-of-text general commentary on 0.8.
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 04:09:12 PM »

I am not missing it, I just consider it irrelevant since human cannot bribe, bargain, or reason with a machine (the game engine).  All that matters is if it makes the player character stronger (or at least not harmful).  I have no qualms doing bad acts (like killing everyone) if that can be easily reversed by good acts (such as turning in cores).

You may feel proud pretending to be a good Samaritan, but if you get punished in the game, you only have the game engine to vent your grievance at, and the game does not care.
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