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[isaacssv552]

For all the strength of the battle-station, the mundane [Redacted] are fairly weak given their status as uncapturable loot-guards. They also lack unique weapons and capital ships, but I assume that is just incomplete content.

I would like to see the [Redacted] given a 10-20% boost in stats to make them beefier. Currently, I frequently find myself fighting entire Ordos with a mere half my fleet while needing my entire fleet against mundane enemies. The only time the [Redacted] have ever proven a threat, outside of the battle-station, was through the sheer CR attrition of 5 Ordos attacking me in sequence after I jumped into the corona of a 'triple-ping' system.

[Wyvern]

My take on things:

One ping systems are just boring at the moment.  They're not so much 'hazard' systems as they are 'well you might get jumped by a frigate or two' systems.

Two and three ping systems are dangerous; an unprepared fleet jumping into one of these will die.  A prepared fleet, by contrast, is only really at risk due to CR depletion.

* * * * *

My suggestion would be:

No hazard warning: Some systems should have [redacted] fleets, up to around two frigates, or dormant fleets of up to a maximum of a destroyer or two (plus supporting frigates).  This is roughly equivalent to the (practically nonexistent) threat level of a current-game one-ping system.  [Redacted] fleets in these systems do not regenerate.

One ping: These systems have a new class of [Redacted] warship: the Fleet Tender.  Fleet Tenders are, in combat terms, cruiser (or possibly battleship) sized carriers; like the battlestations, they fly alone & won't hunt the player, instead preferring to orbit through asteroid fields or around planets with significant mineral deposits.  Fleet tenders by default spawn a handful of small fleets - a couple destroyers and frigates - which they send to patrol jump points, or keep in close escort.  If the player smashes a few of their patrols, a fleet tender will start spawning larger patrols & adding officers to the fleets it generates.  Maximum threat in a one-ping system should be a single [Redacted] cruiser with a low level officer (plus supporting ships) - at least until the player goes and hunts the fleet tender itself - and that threat level should only turn up if the player sits around for a couple in-game weeks farming [redacted] fleets.
Destroying the fleet tender in a one-ping system is the end of the threat; [redacted] fleets will not regenerate without it.

Two ping: Tends towards fewer fleets than current two-ping systems, but those fleets start with officers & ramp up to max level officers.  The damaged battlestation is fine as is.  Two ping systems might use a single fleet tender as a mini-boss in much the same way a one-ping system can spawn a cruiser if the player hangs around too long.

Three ping: Uses officered fleet tenders as offensive vessels; defaults to high level officers on everything.  Response fleets (those generated when a player starts taking out patrols) can include highly dangerous additional hulls: destroyer-class vessels that function as up-scaled versions of high performance frigates like the Hyperion, Scarab, or Afflictor.

[Deshara]

I find [redacted] boring too but mostly it's cause I can deploy my cruiser alone, fight like a mad dog through the opening engagement wiping most of them in the process (yes it's the lower tier redacted but still), then the remaining fleet can't safely engage my cruiser without getting pummeled the moment they come into range so they just hang around, too fast to be caught but also not retreating like a human fleet would. I think maybe if a redacted fleet is outclassed to such a degree that they can't get into their engagement range without risking a fatal opening salvo & thus never attack, they should retreat, seek out a nearby fleet, join it & activate them and come search for the player at their last known location

[Megas]

One ping systems are a pain for those without carriers.  I tried killing the frigates with Wolf and Medusa, and it was tedious and somewhat dangerous (as in one wrong move and I am overloaded and taking serious damage).  Those with carriers can just send Talons and the remnants die.  Tempests work, but I do not get those until I start fighting indie and Tri-Tachyon deserters, usually later than when I first fight Remnant frigates.

Two ping systems are a bit dangerous for those without endgame resources.

I do not want two ping systems to have fewer but smarter fleets (unless they pump out more bigger ships).  Where would I farm rare stuff (like heavy blasters and fighter chips) if I cannot buy them?

If three ping systems are the only place to find the good stuff, that might be too rare, especially if they are found far from core.  (My current game has two three ping'ers about 15 or so light-years away west of Luddic Church space.  Not too far, but a bit out of the way.  The only other one I found as at the northern edge of the whole sector - too far away.)

Fleets in higher ping systems are not too dangerous for endgame fleets unless you let them stack.  I tried to fight six fleets at once - big mistake!  My clunkers did not have enough peak performance, and they got worn down then killed.  I tried the same fight with lone Paragon.  Killed about two fleets worth (out of their six) before they got smart and started Avoiding my ship until they had the numbers to swarm at once and overwhelm my ship.

[Wyvern]

One ping systems are a pain for those without carriers.  I tried killing the frigates with Wolf and Medusa, and it was tedious and somewhat dangerous (as in one wrong move and I am overloaded and taking serious damage).

While fighters do make short work of [redacted] frigates, I've found a single wolf can handle two such frigates pretty reliably - if it's outfitted right.

I go with pulse laser, ion cannon, 2x pd laser, and - here's the important part - 2x sabot rack.

Aggressive use of sabots makes short work of the things; the only care required is due to the slow speed of the sabot's base munition; if you're fighting the [redacted] frigate with the phase skimmer you have to be careful not to fire sabots when it's about to jump away.  Against three or four [redacted] frigates I can get by with two frigates; one wolf as above, and one AI-controlled ship that's mobile enough to not get pinned down and slagged while I'm off taking out targets.

A wolf with sabots and expanded missile racks could probably take on a few more - but I'll admit, when it gets to larger numbers of frigates I do tend to prefer deploying a carrier (though I go for sparks over talons when I can get them).

[intrinsic_parity]

I agree that the fleets don't scale well into endgame, but this is mostly because they lack powerful capital ships to challenge an end game fleet. I don't think the ships need stat buffs, they are already fairly threatening to an early-mid game fleet. There just needs to be some extra end-game content. I also agree that single ping systems are not scary enough.

[Wyvern]

Minor thought: if adding something like a fleet tender class [redacted] ship isn't in the cards, perhaps one ping systems could use an abandoned research station as their [redacted] fleet respawn point?

[Wyvern]

I do not want two ping systems to have fewer but smarter fleets (unless they pump out more bigger ships).

Come to think of it, this part of my suggestion is probably addressed by the bug fix Alex describes here - my intent in suggesting fewer fleets was to make two ping systems less of a CR-eating trap, and simply having new fleets spawn from the correct location should address that without needing to decrease the number of fleets.

[Megas]

I would not mind seeing more Remnant variants so that they are not always the same, and farming additional rare weapons is possibility.  Thinking of bigger Remnants firing Mjolnirs and Tachyon Lances, not just Plasma Cannon only.

[SCC]

I tried killing the frigates with Wolf and Medusa, and it was tedious and somewhat dangerous (as in one wrong move and I am overloaded and taking serious damage).  Those with carriers can just send Talons and the remnants die.  Tempests work, but I do not get those until I start fighting indie and Tri-Tachyon deserters, usually later than when I first fight Remnant frigates.

Have you tried SO Brawler with LMGs and Heavy Mortars? In my experience it can keep up even with skimming frigs and while at that it wins flux war. Not to mention that most probably frigate AI will try to run from you and from its allies, so most of the time you can force them into duels (which you win). DF allows for mistakes, but overloading is still bad. I just tried soloing with Brawler 2 frigs + a destroyer, but the latter had too much firepower. I think that with some distration I could do that.

[Megas]

I did not have a Brawler at the time I fought Remnant frigates.  I tried SO Lasher, but the damage mods it had made it too hard to reliably win the flux war.  I think if I had undamaged Lasher, I probably could win.  By the time I could get a Brawler, I can get a carrier and Talons instead and destroy Remnant frigates effortlessly, and use the carrier elsewhere like in bounty fights.

I have tried SO Brawler in the simulator, and it always results in Salamanders flaming out my Brawlers engines (even with DF on), then dying as it spins helplessly.  At least Remnants do not use Salamanders.

Brawlers are too vulnerable for my tastes.

[Pushover]

SO Lasher is great. The phase skimmer ships lose the flux war and you just run them over. The other one is more dangerous due to the Ion Pulser's high damage. If you keep out of the range and snipe with the LAGs until flux reaches 25% or so, you can win the flux war. My preferred setup is a Hammerhead to hold the line, and a SO Lasher to pick off frigates 1 by 1.

[Schwartz]

The frigates and destroyers could indeed do with a buff. Those are the only ones I've fought so far besides the big buggers. When I played the new version for the first time, I was very careful around these dormant little fleets. Expecting the worst (and this was the fun part actually), when the fight was over it did feel a bit anticlimactic.

[Gothars]

Thinking a bit more long term, I don't think their ships should be individually super-strong. What we are fighting here are basically just high tech ships manufactured by Tri-Tachyon. They are controlled by AI, that enables them to lay the focus even more on speed and flux and disregard armor and hull, since they don't have to protect a human crew. But it would make sense that Tri-Tachyon designed them not for individual ship-strength, they had their own crewed ships for that. Instead a fleet of drone ships means an enormous logistical advantage.
You don't have to hire crew or officers, you don't have to worry about moral or self-preservation. You just need raw materials to produce more and more of these ships, and drown the enemy in a flood of these cheap, belligerent just-good-enough combatants. And I think that's what they should be in the game, not individually devastating, but a logistical nightmare with unlimited will to fight. The logistical layer is something that's not really there yet, all factions seem to have unlimited resources. I guess it will come into play when we got our own bases and logistical worries. But then, wenn all factions have to actually worry about losing fleets, except for this one faction, we can start to fear them again.

[isaacssv552]

Thinking a bit more long term, I don't think their ships should be individually super-strong. What we are fighting here are basically just high tech ships manufactured by Tri-Tachyon. They are controlled by AI, that enables them to lay the focus even more on speed and flux and disregard armor and hull, since they don't have to protect a human crew. But it would make sense that Tri-Tachyon designed them not for individual ship-strength, they had their own crewed ships for that. Instead a fleet of drone ships means an enormous logistical advantage.
You don't have to hire crew or officers, you don't have to worry about moral or self-preservation. You just need raw materials to produce more and more of these ships, and drown the enemy in a flood of these cheap, belligerent just-good-enough combatants. And I think that's what they should be in the game, not individually devastating, but a logistical nightmare with unlimited will to fight. The logistical layer is something that's not really there yet, all factions seem to have unlimited resources. I guess it will come into play when we got our own bases and logistical worries. But then, wenn all factions have to actually worry about losing fleets, except for this one faction, we can start to fear them again.

I think the domain drones should be the industry option while [Redacted] should be the tech option. Industry gives you more weak ships, which fits with the domain drone descriptions, while tech makes what ships you have stronger.

Basically, I think the domain drones should be logistically strong, with virtually limitless reinforcements, the [Redacted] should be technologically strong, with all of their ships being 'elite' and having the best weapons/hull mods, but lack officers, and the human factions should be limited in both industry and tech, but have their own captains and officers with the same skill tree as the player.