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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Raiding for Fun and Profit (11/27/19)

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Author Topic: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?  (Read 7787 times)

dk1332

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Okay, before you insult my awful lack of intelligence, lets just be honest here.

Neutrino detectors are confusing as hell. Especially when you get those "scan X which is located outer reaches of Y Star System". I know there is an instruction on the ability itself, but still, its vague. Star, Planetary and Station readings are easy to tell but smaller ones like ships/caches and bogus readings are hard to tell apart from each other. I know this is a stupid question but:

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF ITS A REAL READING OR NOT?
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SCC

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 06:30:31 AM »

AFAIK fake readings always point in the same direction, while real change.

sotanaht

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 07:16:42 AM »

Seems like there is always a reading pointing in the direction of the nearest neighboring systems, so you should be able to eliminate that at least.

So far though I've only found the neutrino detector to be completely worthless,
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TheWetFish

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2017, 07:20:58 AM »

  • False positives appear as an infinite distance away. They can therefore be identified by noting a particular spike, moving perpendicular to it's direction for some distance and scanning again. If the spike has not moved in relative position then it is a false positive.
  • Planets/stars appear as a large, constant signal which can be safely ignored.
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Sy

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2017, 08:12:02 AM »

i think Neutrino Detector is quite useful as it is, if you know how to identify false positives (as Fish explained).

quite a few players seem to be confused about if and how that can be done though, so it would probably be a good idea to make it more clear in the description. keeping it vague is fun from a conceptual view (it's supposed to be unreliable!) but misleading when there's actually a simple way to figure out which signals are fake.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 09:05:02 AM »

Given how fast the detector eats volatiles, it might be better balanced without the false positives. It amuses me that the game forces people to think about triangulation though. I'd like to see more oddball abilities like this.
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Sy

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 10:11:29 AM »

i think volatile consumption and false positives are both fine, and make it feel like a unique little gadget rather than just another ability, but imo it doesn't need to cancel Sustained Burn. having to switch between the two can get a bit annoying, particularly for that triangulation stuff.

the volatile consumption should already keep the player from just leaving it on all the time. if not, a small, flat burn speed reduction (-2 or so) would probably do the trick, without being annoying.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 10:17:04 AM »

it just seems to need a bit of a buff; but probably you're right. Letting it be used with sustained burn might  be enough.
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dk1332

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 12:17:09 PM »

AFAIK fake readings always point in the same direction, while real change.

Oddly enough I had one instance where the fake reading did change direction. So this kinda caused me a great dilemma.

i think volatile consumption and false positives are both fine, and make it feel like a unique little gadget rather than just another ability, but imo it doesn't need to cancel Sustained Burn. having to switch between the two can get a bit annoying, particularly for that triangulation stuff.

the volatile consumption should already keep the player from just leaving it on all the time. if not, a small, flat burn speed reduction (-2 or so) would probably do the trick, without being annoying.

Agreed, not being able to use sustained burn makes it harder to find those "outer reaches" targets.
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SCC

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 12:23:00 PM »

Oddly enough I had one instance where the fake reading did change direction. So this kinda caused me a great dilemma.
Are you sure? As in, "I went to the edge of the system map" sure? I've had a gate and comm relay just at the edge of it, this might've been similar case.

dk1332

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 12:46:35 PM »

Oddly enough I had one instance where the fake reading did change direction. So this kinda caused me a great dilemma.
Are you sure? As in, "I went to the edge of the system map" sure? I've had a gate and comm relay just at the edge of it, this might've been similar case.

Pretty sure. It was supposed to be at 3 o'clock position from the star. At first I just gave me a doubtful chase, stopping 3 more times to use my sensor burst and reactivate my sustained burn. After the 3rd time it when went 5 o'clock in correlation when I was midpoint near the edge of the map. Changed direction towards the new signal.

Found nothing.
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DeMatt

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 01:17:13 AM »

About the only thing I wish the Neutrino Detector had was fixed, clock-type angle reference markings.  Something that you could mentally reference the pings against, instead of having to guess.  See attached image! And marvel at my l33t MSPaint sk1llz.

Pretty sure. It was supposed to be at 3 o'clock position from the star. At first I just gave me a doubtful chase, stopping 3 more times to use my sensor burst and reactivate my sustained burn. After the 3rd time it when went 5 o'clock in correlation when I was midpoint near the edge of the map. Changed direction towards the new signal.

Found nothing.
It's entirely possible that the "false readings" periodically swap positions.  So while you were flying, the first false reading shut off, and a new false reading turned on.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Serenitis

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 03:16:11 AM »

Agreed, not being able to use sustained burn makes it harder to find those "outer reaches" targets.
This is all the 'balance' it really needs.
It is inconvenient enough to be stuck at crawl speed when using it without further penalties or resource useage.
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Megas

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 06:18:07 AM »

Preventing Sustained Burn is enough for me to never consider wasting a precious skill point into sensors.  That it also eats volatiles like a fat pig just adds insult to injury.
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Ghoti

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Re: Neutrino Detector: How to tell apart which readings are real?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 06:57:46 AM »

Oddly enough I had one instance where the fake reading did change direction. So this kinda caused me a great dilemma.

Does anyone have a video or something of a false positive to a point in space? Like get a neutrino scanner and orbit around a false positive. This has never personally happened to me.

Anyway. I think a few people are upset about this ability because it has a frustrating trap that you have to learn to avoid. But it's ok to learn things in games ;D. It does not mean it's broken if you didn't get it the first time you use it. Nor does it mean its broken if you can't figure out a use for it.

For the people giving up, here's how you use it, This will include things others have mentioned already.
  • 30-40 volatiles is nice and safe amount, I rarely need more
  • as mentioned, you can triangulate to detect false positives.
  • set your fleet to a distant target perpendicular to a false positive and watch the reading
  • you can E-Burn while the neutrino scanner is on.
  • the neutrino scanner is easier with a fast fleet. consider smaller ships.
  • zoom into your fleet and put your mouse cursor at the tip of the signal for reference, you'll be able to detect very tiny changes
  • the neutrino's negative readings are also important. The neutrino scanner can literally eliminate a search in half the solar system with a negative reading.


So if you're salvaging, neutrino is pretty much a must get. It's already a powerful ability.
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