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News: New blog post: Economy & Outposts (9/19/17); Starsector 0.8.1a is out!
 
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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] Disassemble Reassemble v0.7 - Another lovingly kitbashed ship pack!  (Read 13408 times)
Sy
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« Reply #90 on: September 29, 2017, 02:03:07 AM »

No? Neither is the Shepherd. Neither is the Tempest  Huh Why would the Katrina be tagged as a carrier? It's a mining ship.
actually, Shepherd is tagged as carrier, and not tagged as civilian. Alex removed the civilian tag in 0.8, because that (usually?) prevents the AI from deploying it into open battles. since it's designed as a mini/budget carrier for early-game fleets, it's not meant to always be kept back and encountered only in pursuit battles.

Tempest is another thing entirely, since it's still primarily an attack frigate, which Shepherd is not. Terminator drone also has an even shorter leash range than Borers.

i don't know which role Katrina fits best, but if it's supposed to be deployed alongside proper combat ships, i think it shouldn't have the civilian tag. if it's meant to engage at close range in addition to providing light drone support, it shouldn't be tagged as anything.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #91 on: September 29, 2017, 02:28:12 AM »

actually, Shepherd is tagged as carrier, and not tagged as civilian...

Huh. So it is.  Lips sealed I always thought it was only tagged as Civilian, because it never wants to engage in fights. Guess that was the Carrier tag.



i don't know which role Katrina fits best, but if it's supposed to be deployed alongside proper combat ships, i think it shouldn't have the civilian tag. if it's meant to engage at close range in addition to providing light drone support, it shouldn't be tagged as anything.

Perhaps that's a better thought, yeah. It does have a built-in mining blaster, so perhaps encouraging it to throw its weight around a bit more isn't a bad idea.
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"I ain't one to punch first, but if the mil' wants a piece of me tonight, then they're sure as hell gonna regret it in the morning!"
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alguLoD
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« Reply #92 on: September 29, 2017, 02:52:18 AM »

I tend to bring the Katrina in early-game industrial builds, which is the role I'd assume it to have. Beyond emergencies (pirates), I'd only ever use it for fighting derelicts. For this it is reasonably well equipped, but I did note that it was excessively cowardly if you have both civilian and military ships in a fight. Even without a military escort they are cautious. Directly in player hands they work much better.
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dk1332
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« Reply #93 on: September 29, 2017, 03:10:19 AM »

Katrina becomes one of those "Beggar's Carrier" at the start since the Borer drones could provide support to the combat ships as well as a cheap distraction to the enemy point defense  Smiley . Making the drone a free roaming unit kinda cuts that effectiveness especially on times where you will need to try and turn the tables on an enemy.

Also, seeing the Katrina doing a Defensive yet close-combat kinda made me worried alot of times since its mining blaster builds a good chunk of flux per shot, putting the ship at risk to overheating especially when engaging/running away from ships that are equipped with kinetic weapons.

But hey, its up to you man. I just pointed that out since it kinda bothers me a bit.
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DatonKallandor
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« Reply #94 on: September 29, 2017, 03:52:46 PM »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you may have missed previous versions of this mod where the Seraphim's large missile mount was a modular slot. However, in discussions with folks on the Discord channel, I'm afraid the following conclusion was reached by a great number of respectable modders:

Large missile mounts are overpowered on destroyers.

So, yeah, while I could stick one on and otherwise nerf the ship to the ground, there won't be one in this mod any time soon because A) it previously had one already, and B) they generally aren't a good idea.

Strongly disagree with that, and frankly I don't think most starsector modders are qualified to be authorities on what's balanced or not. But whatever, it's your mod.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #95 on: September 29, 2017, 04:22:46 PM »

... frankly I don't think most starsector modders are qualified to be authorities on what's balanced or not.

This comes from discussions with MesoTronik and Tartiflette, among others, and if you don't think they're "authorities" on balance, then I can't help you.  Embarrassed
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"I ain't one to punch first, but if the mil' wants a piece of me tonight, then they're sure as hell gonna regret it in the morning!"
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« Reply #96 on: September 29, 2017, 06:20:07 PM »

frankly I don't think most starsector modders are qualified to be authorities on what's balanced or not.
balance is always tricky, and changes over time, so of course no single person knows it all -- save for Alex, kinda. and even he changes his views on many balance issues over time.

but if there is anyone you should listen to when it comes to balance, it's the people who've spent hundreds or even thousands (yes, literally) hours creating and tweaking mod content, extensively testing their own stuff and repeatedly comparing it to various vanilla pieces, to ensure the mod fits in with the base game as well as possible. if several of these modders come to the same conclusion, it's generally safe to assume that there's something to it.
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #97 on: September 29, 2017, 06:29:23 PM »

Actually I was arguing that a Destroyer with a large mount is not impossible to balance. But it would require some rather strong limitations: No ECCM, no Expanded Missile Racks, no Flight Decks, little PD, pretty much no secondary weapons to speak of... But it should be workable.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #98 on: September 29, 2017, 10:30:50 PM »

Well, the point made is that a large missile toting destroyer would have to nerfed very hard in other aspects to be considered "balanced".

And the Seraphim really didn't have those nerfs. Nor am I willing right now to give it those nerfs, or make a new destroyer with them. I've already got two missile destroyers in this mod - I really don't need a third.  Tongue
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"I ain't one to punch first, but if the mil' wants a piece of me tonight, then they're sure as hell gonna regret it in the morning!"
- Johnson "Johnny" Parker
MajorTheRed
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« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2017, 01:57:51 PM »

Some feedback about the new version, only minor things:
-The modular high-tech frigate, in its freighter variant, is selected when auto-deploying fleets in combat, i.e. it's not designated as a civilian ship
-The Constellation carrier has a "off the track" engine trail in hyperspace (probably also on real space but I figure it when I was in hyperspace). The engine concern is the left one, and its trail is like 30° clockwise off
-Seraphim-class Missile Destroyer : nice new iteration. With the new kinetic launcher it makes a good support destroyer, pretty effective when deployed in full scale engagement (with wings, other missile boats or combat destroyer).

The new version of the anti-frigate missiles is better, more efficient with only two missiles per shots. However, Maybe its a little bit too fast to correctly track ennemy frigates? They are quite easy to dodge if the ennemy ship slides off the way, unless it is launched at point blank range.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2017, 10:03:36 PM »

Some feedback about the new version, only minor things:
-The modular high-tech frigate, in its freighter variant, is selected when auto-deploying fleets in combat, i.e. it's not designated as a civilian ship

Yeah, it doesn't have the CIVILIAN tag. Originally this was due to some confusion between that tag, and giving a ship the "Civilian Hull" hullmod - also slightly due to my desperation for more cool combat freighters, which the Acanthina-F really does not fit into the role of.  Lips sealed Not rightly sure what I was thinking. Nonetheless:

Code:
DaRa Version 0.8 (WIP version)
...
- Added "CIVILIAN" tag to Acanthina-F, to discourage it from behaving like a combat ship
...


-The Constellation carrier has a "off the track" engine trail in hyperspace (probably also on real space but I figure it when I was in hyperspace). The engine concern is the left one, and its trail is like 30° clockwise off

I've also noticed this, and I've got no idea what's going on there.  Huh The ship's engines flames are completely symmetrical both in combat and in the Ship Editor, so why they're not in the campaign map I really can't say. It's certainly not game-breaking though, so I'm not too bothered about being unable to diagnose or fix that.


-Seraphim-class Missile Destroyer : nice new iteration. With the new kinetic launcher it makes a good support destroyer, pretty effective when deployed in full scale engagement (with wings, other missile boats or combat destroyer).

Glad you're enjoying it as much as I have been! Grin MesoTronik and I really pulled a winner with that launch sound, no?


- The new version of the anti-frigate missiles is better, more efficient with only two missiles per shots. However, Maybe its a little bit too fast to correctly track ennemy frigates? They are quite easy to dodge if the ennemy ship slides off the way, unless it is launched at point blank range.

The Swifts are ideally used at close range, so firing at point blank is definitely a viable tactic with them, if not what you should be attempting to do in the first place.  Wink At longer range you kinda need to have slowed the target ship down somehow - say, Salamanders or some form of ion-wielding fighter to disable their engines - before unleashing the salvo.

On the subject, have you found and/or tried out the medium version of the launcher? It's nice against destroyers and such for a short-range punch that's just a little too quick for hostile point defense to dampen, hehehe...

Anyway, thanks heaps for the very comprehensive feedback!  Cheesy Always massively appreciated.
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"I ain't one to punch first, but if the mil' wants a piece of me tonight, then they're sure as hell gonna regret it in the morning!"
- Johnson "Johnny" Parker
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