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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Disassemble Reassemble v1.6.9 - Another lovingly kitbashed ship pack!  (Read 414965 times)

AxleMC131

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Vagrant: It's not supposed to a bad destroyer, it's supposed to be a cheap destroyer, and I think it achieves that quite well. As for the armour, you can easily look at how durable it is in-game by clicking it in the refit screen (just like any other module) and seeing its stats.

Manta: Everyone loves the Manta, definitely give it a proper try. It's that one ship everyone looks at and thinks "this looks like a pretty weak destroyer" and then they fly it and their opinion completely flips. Glad you like the pirate version though, that thing was a joy to get flying with the Red Arrow's system.

Seraphim: I think you overestimate its defensive capabilities. If you put an offensive weapon in the medium turret, it's only got four smalls (pretty standard for a destroyer) for point defence, and they have odd arcs with the only real convergeance in the rear. I honestly wouldn't know what to give it other than Active Flares, it fits the ship well and actually isn't that strong when you consider what else it could have had, like Fast Missile Racks or something equally dumb. XD 0.6 comes from its high-tech origins, though it should have lower base flux stats than others due to smaller guns. I'll double check those though.

Gemini (Civ): Who said we needed it? I just wanted to make one. :D The current Gemini often feels like it's a military ship trying to be a civilian ship, or vice versa, I just gave it a helping hand. :P Seriously though, it was a surprisingly popular concept, and is different enough to the regular Gemini to warrant existing. It's also much cheaper, and has the option to install Militarized Subsystems that the regular Gemini doesn't, so there are definitely reasons to use it.

Not even gonna both with the Gypsy Moth. :P If you've faced it, you know all you need to know.

Harrier: It's an anvil in the sense that it moves pretty slow. It's only really classified as such when you compare it to other midline cruisers, which are generally agile and use quite mixed weaponry. The Harrier has a single large turret and much lower mobility stats, but also improved armour and that sweet shield - it's sorta like a low-tech/midline intermission ship. It's definitely meant to punch, but the anvil part is due to it requiring ships come to it rather than go hunting for them, if you see what I mean.

Retribution: AAF on four Composite mounts is the exact same reason the Outlander has HEF on a large Synergy: it's a balance measure. Missiles are inherently powerful for their sizes, so giving a ship multi-type mounts but a system that boosts the non-missile type I feel is a sensible way to discourage memey loadout designs and usage. It's definitely a tough ship, but it really needs that boost from AAF to compete with other cruisers for firepower. Without it active it falls short due to its relatively light weaponry.
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SCC

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Feedback III: The Part Nobody Asked For
A quick one, since I'm going back to parts I deliberately or accidentally skipped.

   Constellation — carrier AI doing its thing again. It doesn't really have the armament to justify its combat carrier tags, at least in my opinion. Considering it already has a very strong fighter boosting ship system, I want it to stay out of combat as much as possible, maybe tickling the enemy with an ion beam at maximum range. The engine in the middle of the decks doesn't look too OSHA-compliant to me.
   Outlander — kind of slow for a high tech ship, but very durable with good flux stats. The question of whether it's overpowered or not is a bit hard to answer. On one hand, unless you use beams, it needs to be this though in order to close in the distance and deal damage. It might also sacrifice large energy for a large missile and get more punch at longer range. And Outlander also might just go full beams and become the one-ship beaming party. It has the flux, the mounts and the ship system to do it, without any significant drawbacks, besides lack of frontal point defence, which is alleviated by having a good shield.If you're looking to nerf it, I think the easiest way to do that would be to swap 2 turret mediums for 4 turret smalls. It won't be able to pressure shields as well nor as efficiently.
   Starlifter — loaded to the brim with mining weapons it's a funky ship, if not particularly effective. Haven't ever found it at a stage where I'd be in the need of it, but it has more to do with its rarity. It would be interesting to see it as a hidden, but guaranteed find somewhere near the core. Unless it already is...

   Lacerator Beam — yes. I made some ship work with them very well and I forgot which one was it, but it's still good. Also, an easy way to make a possibly illegal Scarab.
   Swift Missiles — I like it in that they're lower yield than, say, a harpoon, but are also more reliable than it. If I need to get through some armour or to finish something in a pinch, swift missiles are a better choice for assault ships. Swift Burst is a bit harder to justify, since it's competing with torpedoes (or so I feel) and it's really hard to beat a reaper. Still better at bypassing point defence, though.
   Machete — Gypsy Moth of lasers.
   Anaximander — I've seen it underperform pretty often, but it does so mainly against fast ships. Against slower I'm not sure, as they typically get good PD cover, and... I don't fly them, my AI does. That aside, I didn't really use it myself, because I see large missiles as less utility and more general purpose beat sticks.

AxleMC131

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Constellation: It's a destroyer carrier that already has two decks *and* a fighter-boosting system. Any more weaponry would just make it blatantly overpowered. That said, if you think it could trade some of its fighter potential for personal weapon potential (and maybe better flux stats?) then I'd be interested to hear suggestions in that regard. Perhaps making one wing built-in? Or just changing the ship system.

Outlander: The biggest thing about the Outlander is that it's a slow high-tech ship. It errs more towards the Paragon's doctrine, though with an offensive system rather than a defensive one. It does have a big shield and huge flux pool, but while its weaponry looks good on paper it does have unorthodox mount positions that make it a bit weird to use. Plus, having a large Synergy slot but High Energy Focus does wonders for discouraging missile meme madness, hehe. If people think it needs a nerf though, I'll give it a closer look.

Starlifter: People like it a lot. ??? And I don't really know why. It's not a great combat ship, but it does do wonders for an exploration game. Works good with Nexerelin mining, too. Has potential to be even more though, if one day I can figure out the required advanced scripting. And no there isn't a derelict one in the Sector anywhere - DaRa doesn't actually touch the campaign besides putting what ships and weapons it does into faction configs.

Lacerator: It's like the oldest weapon in DaRa and really doesn't get any love nowadays. I'm glad someone's still enjoying it.  :D

Swift: Sounds about how they're supposed to work. The medium mount offers better saturation and sustain, with its large capacity. How else might you arrange it, if you think it's under-performing against alternative medium missiles?

Machete: Just like the Manta, everyone loves it. XD Lucky you can't equip one on the other.

Anaximander: A bit of an enigma, though it's been tempting for a long time to buff it. If people think it could use one, I'll probably up the burst to 12 missiles and raise the cooldown accordingly. It's meant to be a swarming heatseeker, but the slow speed kinda counters that a little.
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MajorTheRed

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Quote
Outlander: The biggest thing about the Outlander is that it's a slow high-tech ship. It errs more towards the Paragon's doctrine, though with an offensive system rather than a defensive one. It does have a big shield and huge flux pool, but while its weaponry looks good on paper it does have unorthodox mount positions that make it a bit weird to use. Plus, having a large Synergy slot but High Energy Focus does wonders for discouraging missile meme madness, hehe. If people think it needs a nerf though, I'll give it a closer look.

I think it's hard to create a Paragon-line style of high-tech ship. I mean, even the Paragon had to get a specific hull-mod to get a true role. High shield efficiency is an interesting concept for high-tech ships, but maybe it's the energy weapons that doesn't do great for this kind of ship. In Stop Gap Measure, I struggle to make the Minos destroyer an interesting ship around the concept of a slow, tough ship, with high flux capacity. It end having a ship painfull to bring down, but not really threatening since its weapons are too much short-ranged.
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SCC

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That's because because of the general design. High-tech ships are fast and use energy weapons, which are generally more bursty and shorter ranged, except for beams. Without range and without speed, you can't force your fights and you can't prevent the other side from kiting. This means that slow high-tech ships are either confined to using beams (like the Outlander), relying on special built-in range hullmods (Paragon) or simply bad (Minos, apparently).

About the Outlander specifically: does it need a nerf? If looking at just Dara and vanilla, there's nothing really broken. I mostly use Outlanders as beam boats, since they are so effective at it. It's very dangerous against low-tech ships and a moderate danger against midline ships, when two of them fire at the same target. I don't like how it's stacked against low-tech ships, but that might be more of a vanilla balance issue. The other option is to use large missiles to either get a flux-free kick when at high flux, or to drive up the hard flux that the beams can do some real damage. I'm not a fan of ships relying on missiles to work properly, though it might work well if I can't just spam beams.
So, I guess that it's just the other mod beams that make Outlander into a rampage wagon.

Also, I did a thing.

AxleMC131

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Also, I did a thing.

I want to see this become the new meta for escape/pursuit scenarios.  8)
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FreedomFighter

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It always weirds me out that you retain your speed when the engine flameout and you can go over your own top speed with it. Turn my Onslaught into giant beyblade before due to one of TPC ding with the enemy during burn drive, flameout, and spinning at super speed.
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King Alfonzo

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Also really noticeably with Shepherds - just nick on of their engines and they go genuine beyblade.

Euphytose

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Also really noticeably with Shepherds - just nick on of their engines and they go genuine beyblade.

Yes, it almost always happens with those.
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Kulverstukass

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Civilian Gemini has quite high maintenance, 9 (vs 10 of Atlas)
Seems like a clear overlook.

PS: i've meant to say - description states it being "affordable, stripped from anything that made it combat-capable", and yet, it's same as non-civ one
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 04:37:32 AM by Kulverstukass »
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Buckle up for broken english vocabulary, comrade!

AxleMC131

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Erm. Neither of those things are true.

The Civilian Gemini's maintenance profile is 8 supplies/month - if you're looking at ship_data.csv though you won't see that, since I changed it via a hullmod to make it look like a skin. That's 1 supply/month cheaper than a regular Gemini, which was understandably my frame of reference.

Nowhere have I said it has been "stripped of anything that made it combat-capable", you're heavily paraphrasing the description prefix there. What it actually says is:

Quote
This ship is built to regulated civilian-grade starship specifications, sacrificing its military profile and most combat-rated subsystems. While a strict downgrade over the base model, this variant is cheaper and accessible to more of the Sector's population.

Like, it's mostly flavour, but it applies. It doesn't lose its guns, but it does lose Reserve Deployment (a very powerful system quite frankly); has 5 fewer Ordnance Points to spend; gains a Civilian sensor profile, and is about three quarters the purchase price. It's similar, sure, but it's definitely not the same. It also appears in base_bp, meaning you don't have to find a blueprint for it - your custom production or faction fleet generator (if you get a colony early on) has access to the ship from day one.

And, for the record, it's still a perfectly adequate combat freighter/carrier.
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Kulverstukass

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Oh, pardon, my bad - I've truly heavily misunderstood and rephrased it's description and haven't noticed that 8 (-1) weren't caused by d-mod, but a hullmod.
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Grizzlyadamz

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Hey, just wanted to say I really like your work, and am in awe of this chubby little Trebuchet (P) I've got here.
Spoiler
He will be the bane of every civilized market in the galaxy HAHAHA
[close]
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AxleMC131

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Update: Version 1.6.6

*** THIS UPDATE WILL BREAK SAVES!!! ***

It's my birthday gift to you! :D Sorry about the saves though... But it's what happens when you flat-out remove a ship from existence. And sadly that's what has happened to the old Bull...

... Except the Bull has been reincarnated in a new form: the Barricade-class Combat Freighter, and its carrier-converted Pirate variant! Between them they've replaced the Bull in function and spirit.

This update we also see minor changes to the Outlander, and not-so-minor changes to the Constellation, which has now reached proper Combat Carrier status! Less fighters, more guns if you please. Also the Trebuchet has been renamed to "Torrent", to avoid name confusion with the big old missile launcher from SWP.

As always, check the OP for more details, and have as good a day as I am.  ;) Enjoy!

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2_Wycked

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Any chance I could get a link to the previous version, 1.6.5? I deleted the DL before realizing that it breaks saves, sorry!
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