Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]

Author Topic: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!  (Read 33048 times)

Satirical

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #90 on: September 02, 2020, 10:57:22 PM »

So i installed a stellar reflector relay that contributes 5 points of terraforming per day but where do i install the "stellar reflector core" ?

edit: nvm im using DIY and terraforming and station construction smh no wonder lol sorry for the confusion :)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 12:10:40 AM by Satirical »
Logged

authenticasian

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #91 on: September 16, 2020, 02:58:30 AM »

First of all I'm loving this mod and I've had no issues so far.
But now I have a problem a desert world that I'm trying to terraform already has the "habitable" condition but when I build the water collection structure and the project finishes it doesn't get turned into a terran world it just gets the condition "hydrated" i already tried removing that condition and re-hydrating the planet but it results in the same issue, the same goes for deleting "habitable" and adding "no atmosphere"

Any help is greatly appreciated!

This was posted back in March and had no answer that I can see. Now having the same problem with a cometary collection structure. It's "Hydrated" my desert world 3 times now to no effect. The tooltip says that the world will be compatible with terran life once the "atmosphere is established," except the world has a full atmosphere. Can't quite remember if it spawned like that or if I terraformed the atmosphere in too.

Only mod i'm running that messes with colonies is "Better Colonies".

I should mention that i already tried using the reevaluate dev option, but it didn't change the planet at all. Anyone having something similar happen? Mod is great so far just need to get through this snag. I would appreciate any help with this issue.

Yeah I'm having this issue with a cryovolcanic world not turning into a water world, also running better colonies
Logged

Albreo

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2020, 10:18:37 AM »

I did transform a Cyrovolcanic into Water World. But instead of aquatic culture, I can build a farm on it instead.
Logged

Mondaymonkey

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 777
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2020, 10:30:41 AM »

I did transform a Cyrovolcanic into Water World. But instead of aquatic culture, I can build a farm on it instead.

Oh, that's are well-known issue, that couldn't be directly fixed in current SS version.

However, in TASC mod, Boggled made a script, that change farming industry on a such planets into an aquaculture next day farming construction started. Not sure if DIYP have a same mechanism (It should, IMO).
Logged
I dislike human beings... or I just do not know how to cook them well.

arknok

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2020, 01:50:18 PM »

your mod(1.0.12) crashes to desktop on loading a save game or starting a new game. I rolled back to ver(1.0.6) and it loaded fine. the error message said it was looking for a config (terrform_config.json(I think))
Logged

Modo44

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #95 on: September 28, 2020, 09:55:11 PM »

Could you add a setting to set a time scale for the terraforming buildings? I think they are working too fast.
Logged

Apfelkuchenbemme

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2020, 05:08:03 AM »

Jesus, I love to hear myself talk ... put everything into a spoiler, but tl&dr is:
"Balance is whack, yo"

Spoiler

I really like the idea of terraforming planets and with Starsector, not only do I think terraforming as an "active" component rather than some derelict stations should be in the basegame, but I think it will be in the basegame at some point. But umm, either my view is extremely skewered by having an Alpha AI core in literally every single structure by the time I tried this mod, or you may want to think about some rebalancing:

Smaller "issues" I have with the mod
  • Yes, compared to the vanilla structures, the upkeep for those terraforming structures is noticably more expensive. However I only hit the red on one colony, and quickly got that colony back to green numbers once I could install a beta core after the third terraforming structure was finished. Since we're literally trying to turn an icy rock into a beautiful, green paradise with butterflies flying about, I'd definitely be OK with it if the upkeep for the structures saw a 25-50% increase. Heck, the only reason you’re even doing this is you have nothing better to do with 10s of millions of credits after some point, so I’d even be OK with it if the upkeep saw a 150% increase.

  • Why even bother with a demand in commodities? Like, unless this is all also lowered because of my AI cores, to function on a planet without an atmosphere, the Atmosphere Pump has a demand of 4 Heavy Machinery and a whooping 2 Volatiles. You don't even need your own Heavy Industries or need to be allied with one of the “big players” of the core, even the vanilla Independent can satisfy that demand with 5 HM from Nova Maxios.

  • "20k for the location of a terraforming rig"

    ... probably a bit of a pet peeve, but it’s like “OK old man sitting in a bar of one of my colonies, I’m going to pay you 20k credits for information as to where that terraforming rig is. Right after you tell me its location, I’ll just load up on supplies and fuel for about 50k and test the Capital Ship another mod added, which I’ve built for about 500k from my orbitals works and oh would you look at that, the income for this month was 1.1m"

    Like, 20k to start the "quest" just feels like a "Test you have to pass to start the quest, just for the sake of having a test", you know? It's just ... who the hell doesn't have 20k credits to start a quest where they have to destroy a certain kind of defense of a Domain-era artifact?
[close]

Bigger issues I have with the mod

But the kind of "broken", but also kinda more "confusingly balanced" thing about this mod is the comparison between those Terraforming Artifacts and ... The Genesis.


In vanilla Starsector, we can already zoom around in Hyperspace, our engines running on Antimatter Fuel, and we'll blast one another to hell with lasers and plasma while we phase cloak into another dimension or something and build a red shield around our entire damn planet ... but in order to make a change to a planets atmosphere or whatever permanent, we need some "Domain = big brain"-tier tech? That's single use? I can totally understand requiring a specialised AI core to (somehow) change a planets gravitational inner field thingy so it doesn’t have a high gravity debuff anymore … but we seriously can’t find a way to say “Alrigthy, we have to run those stellar mirrors / shades for x years and then we’ll put them into this formation to make the change permanent”?

Yet building a ship for a measly 1m credits, that literally pulls a planet with Ultrarich Deposits of normal and rare ores plus Organics plus Volatiles out of some asteroid field is somehow "easier" than permanently changing a planets environment? To put this into perspective, among all the 738 planets of my current playthrough, 37 had Organics and only 4 of them had Plentiful Organics. Exactly how well the Genesis can help you bolster a system depends on the availability of asteroids of course, but I mean ... my main system, the Pelesius Star System, had three planets to begin with:

There was Galahan, an Arid World with Adequate Farmland, Abundant Rare- and Moderate Normal Ore Deposits and Abundant Organics.
Then there was Ose, a Water World with Moderate Ore Deposits, Abundant Organics and (of course) a Water-covered Surface.
And last but not least, we had Ukobach, a Gas Giant that only has Diffuse Volatiles, but he was lovingly colonized nevertheless.


After using 5 Genesis on the ringsystem around Ukobach, the ringsystem around the Pelesius and Tered Kathon stars (binary system), an asteroid field around a jump point and an asteroid field that was big enough to generate two planets, I now also have these guys in the system:

Abundant Volatiles + Abundant Organics,
Diffuse Volatiles + Plentiful Organics,
Trace Volatiles + Plentiful Organics,
Plentiful Volatiles + Abundant Organics,
Diffuse Volatiles + Plentiful Organics


Really, 5m credits was all it took to raise the number of Planets with Plentiful Organics in the entire sector from 4 to 7. OK, this roll for resources was probably almost as lucky as even having enough asteroids to create five planets in the first place, but keep in mind that on top of those resources, all five of these guys have a hazard rating of just 150% and have Ultrarich Rare- and Normal Ore Deposits.


With 550k production value per month from my Orbital Works, it takes just a bit over 9 months to produce 5 Genesis and extend the Pelesius Star System from a very good system to an absolutely ridiculous power house of a system that - if you slap a High Command on every planet - could probably have like 30 or so Patrols / Detachments running about.

Yet it takes 400something ingame days to remove a planets Extreme Heat condition plus you need a single-use Artifact you may not even find in the next fetch quest?

[close]

My proposition for a rebalance

I liked the way Spore handled terraforming:

Early terraforming tech wasn't a precise science and it was a good idea to bring both forms of tech to e.g. be able to lower a planets temperature if you were about to raise it too high. Later terraforming tech could alter two things at once (think a volcano made atmosphere denser and raised temp) and the late game tech gave you precise control over what you wanted to do (those beams for temp and atmosphere vacuum / dispenser for atmosphere).


You could take a similar approach, where tech usable from the start would work, but wouldn't be very efficient. E.g. have standard Stellar Shades / Mirrors take many years to remove the hot Condition and Cold conditions, Atmosphere conditions would take the same time as Temperature and while working on Tectonic Activity would take 10+ years, you could only partially remove the "Extreme" forms of the condition and you couldn't even do anything about a planets gravity with existing tech.

Doing that quest where you return the AI to the system it originated from, would then unlock upgrades to the already available structures, that would lower upkeep and the time it takes to complete these alterations to a planets condition. This event would also unlock tech to work on an irradiated surface and gravity, both of which would be expensive and still take a long time.

Finding and installing those Terraforming Artifacts would significantly speed up the process and lower upkeep and after finishing the alteration, they'd be returned to the planets cargo holds instead of being single use.


Coming back to "why even have a commodity requirement?", I'd say we try to crunch some numbers by having a "natural pull towards the existing condition" and using a slider to change the amount of resources you want to pour into the operation:


Like, the Extreme Heat condition requires 9000 Terraforming Points (TP) to be removed, but decreases your amount produced by 3 per day. So if you build some standard Stellar Shade here, it'd produce 1 TP per Heavy Machinery and Metal you allocate to the operation, plus it'd cost 7.5k upkeep  per point.

So if you allocate 4 HM and Metal, it'd cost 30k credits per month and take 9000 days, because it'd produce 4 TP per day, which are reduced by 3 because it's Extreme Heat, so ~25 years (9000 / 30 / 12). If you now allocate 8 HM and Metal, it'd cost 60k credits in upkeep and "only" take about 5 years. If an Alpha AI core took the normal route of "-1 demand, -25% upkeep, +1 production", you'd now only pay 45k and it'd take a bit over 4 years.


The upgraded Stellar Shade would produce 2 TP and cost 6k upkeep per Resource allocated. This way, allocating 8 resources and installing an Alpha Core would cost 36k upkeep and produce 17 TP which, reduced by 3 because Extreme Heat, would still take about 21 and a half months to clear the Extreme Heat Condition.

If you now used some Domain-Tech AI core, that doubles TP and halves upkeep per resource allocated, using the Upgraded Stellar Shade + the Domain-Tech core + an Alpha core and 8 resouces would produce 33 TP a day, reduced by 3 because Extreme Heat and it'd take 10 months to clear Extreme Heat, while costing 18k upkeep.

Because of the demand by the Structure, having a trade disruption would act as if you had allocated fewer resouces to the Structure, so it'd produce fewer TP and the terraforming process would take longer.


To give you an example of how long some endgame run would take, my planet Galahan produces 12 Metal and 13 Heavy Machinery, so I could allocate 13 resources to a Stellar Shade, if I used an AI core.

If a planet has the Extreme Heat Condition, which takes 9000 TP to remove and reduces daily TP by 3, I could:
  • Allocate 13 resources to an Upgraded Stellar Shade for 26 TP per day and 78k upkeep
  • Install a Domain-Tech AI core for the Stellar Shade to double production to 52 and halve upkeep to 39k
  • Install an Alpha AI core to increase production to 53 and reduce demand by 1 so I can even allocate 13 resources in the first place and further reduce upkeep to ~30k

The Extreme Heat would reduce daily TP production to 50, so it'd take 9000 / 50 / 30 = 6 months to remove the Extreme Heat condition for an upkeep of 30k and very endgame-tier available resources, which I'd say looks like a pretty "believable" cost.



Regarding the Genesis, aside from increasing its cost significantly, I'd say it'd make sense for the created planet to become a volcanic planet with Extreme Heat, No Atmosphere and Extreme Tectonic Activity since all we're doing here is smack a whole bunch of rocks together, point at it and say "New planet :-D". I know that the description of a planets birth with this method sucks the heat off to ... "somewhere", but that's honestly bs if you compare this "Lets produce a cat IV or even V planet for 1m credits" to "Well yes we are a space faring powerhouse of a faction, but god knows how to build an array of Stellar Shades to cool this planet lmao lets build a ship that can teleport mines". Additionally, you could also vary the amount of ore in the new planet a bit because creating a new planet with Ultrarich Rare- and Normal Ore Deposits feels really unbalanced. Expanding on that, how about depending on the composition of the asteroids floating about, you could end up with a volcanic planet with the aforementioned conditions, or a Cryovolcanic / Frozen planet with Volatiles or a Barren planet that's more prone to have less Ore but more Organics?

Plus the Genesis' max burn of 4 really isn't that bad. Slap on Extreme Modifications from ... I think the Ships and Weapons Pack, install an enhanced Drivefield, get 3 Ox and the Navigations perk and boom, max burn of 10. Since we're lumbering about with a ship big enough to plop a new planet into existence, you could at least give it a hullmod that prevents any other hullmods and lowers the entire fleets max burn by 2 because "Field to stabilize the core interfering with drivefield" or something like that.

[close]
[close]
Logged

fellabrando

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2020, 05:39:09 PM »

Hey does terraforming affect negative traits like...

Military virus? Which kills the growth of a colony?

Like it would solve the "hot" +25% hazard affect when a hot planet is turned into a terran planet?

Thanks!

Logged

LikeableKiwi

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #98 on: October 13, 2020, 05:02:30 AM »

im not sure whether this mod is the exact problem but whenever i try to manually spawn direlicts using console commands/dev mode the game crashes making me lose an hour of progress
Logged

sharkley123

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #99 on: October 14, 2020, 04:21:37 PM »

Im SLIGHTLY confused. Is it possible to take a water world to a terran world with this mod or does that path kinda end with the oceans?
Logged

battleturkies

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • ceiling opossum
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] DIY Planets - Terraforming and more!
« Reply #100 on: November 21, 2020, 09:37:47 PM »

This mod is exceptional. It adds so much, it makes exploration quite exciting too with all the extra items.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]