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Author Topic: Starsector wikia  (Read 13267 times)

TheWetFish

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Starsector wikia
« on: April 25, 2017, 01:00:48 PM »

http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Starsector_Wiki

The purpose of this thread is organise updates to the Startsector wikia site and to seek clarification on mismatches between advised and observed data.

I'm making a concerted effort to update the Starsector wikia to the current version (0.8a-RC19 right now).

If you have any thoughts on things that should definitely stay as is, or things you would like to see changed, then now would be an excellent time to mention it.

I'm aiming to update objective data, maybe strike-through anything that very likely no longer meaningfully applies but I'm not aiming to add in subjective information at this time.  If anyone wants to do so then that would be a huge help.  Suggested usage, tips & tricks, that sort of useful information.
 
The Beginners Guide page understandably gets a lot of attention so that represents a low hanging fruit for improving the usefulness of the wikia substantially, if someone wants to take that on.

Version checks are being implemented.  Each page will be marked at the very bottom with a green tick template as it is verified against current versions.  If it is not yet ticked then don't stress; I will be getting to it.  If it is marked verified but incorrect then, ah, yeah, fix it up or let me know.

I am a monkey bashing two rocks together with wiki's so if anyone is better than me than please do jump in.

We're quite fortunate that Alex's patch notes are fairly extensive & verbose, which really helps these efforts along.  If you know of any changes that are not covered in the patch notes then please do mention it here.
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 01:04:20 PM »

Data mismatch: Atropos-class Torpedo Rack
Patch notes advises;
Atropos torpedo: damage reduced to 1250 (from 2000), speed reduced to 400 (from 500)
OP cost reduced to 4 (dual) and 2 (single)

Weapon data advises; damage is 1000
Tooltip advises; damage is 1000
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Darloth

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 03:27:28 PM »

Data files for the Atropos say 1000 damage with a speed of 400, if that helps.
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Dri

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 03:42:31 PM »

Histidine was one of the main wiki guys, but he is either busy with mods or just has no interest at the moment.

I'd PM him if you have wiki building questions.
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 04:12:14 PM »

Histidine was one of the main wiki guys, but he is either busy with mods or just has no interest at the moment.

I'd PM him if you have wiki building questions.

Cheers :) I dare say mods come first, provided I'm not butchering the wiki too badly in his absence



Data files for the Atropos say 1000 damage with a speed of 400, if that helps.

It does :) The speed & OP cost changes for both Atropos-class Torpedo single & rack are consistent with the noted change in the patch notes but the damage is oddly different. 

Unsure if it's deliberate and missed in the patch notes (pretty likely) or it's accidentally lower than planned.  Hopefully we'll get confirmation at some point, in the meantime I've gone with the in-game data and noted it in their change histories.

There were are few other odd surprises with the weapons but nothing critical or related to this patch I think, likely just version drift.



That's every player weapon updated in the wiki, so now is a great time to double check it and remind me what I've missed.  (Every player weapon that is spawned with Console Commands mod AllWeapons at least).  I did get the new player weapons Hammer Barrage, Devastator Cannon & Heavy Mortar.  There are still quite a lot of pictures and descriptions that need updating but at least the data is there now.

I'm thinking hullmods next, followed by ships, that back around to fighters and fighter weapons
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Philder

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 05:16:40 PM »

For the Falcon, under notes, it says "A drawback of the Falcon is that it is essentially an oversized destroyer, yet pays cruiser costs for hullmods."

Taking into account the OP costs of weapons, it has the exact same amount of spare OP for mods as the Eagle, Dominator and Gryphon. I haven't checked all cruisers, but I believe that builds a sufficient case for removing the comment.

For the Sunder, there are a few notes that could be changed.

"Has all the weaknesses of beam weapons." Should read "Has all the strengths and weaknesses of beam weapons." Stating that it only has weaknesses implies that it has no strengths, which some very polarizing individuals may argue. It isn't a universal opinion, however.

The descriptions for Autopulse and Plasma also state that the weapon range is 'short'. Due to Safety Override and the abundance of weapons around 450 range I believe we can safely conclude that 500 and under is considered short range, while 600-800 would obviously be medium ranged.
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 07:33:44 PM »

For the Falcon, under notes, it says "A drawback of the Falcon is that it is essentially an oversized destroyer, yet pays cruiser costs for hullmods."

Taking into account the OP costs of weapons, it has the exact same amount of spare OP for mods as the Eagle, Dominator and Gryphon. I haven't checked all cruisers, but I believe that builds a sufficient case for removing the comment.

For the Sunder, there are a few notes that could be changed.

"Has all the weaknesses of beam weapons." Should read "Has all the strengths and weaknesses of beam weapons." Stating that it only has weaknesses implies that it has no strengths, which some very polarizing individuals may argue. It isn't a universal opinion, however.

The descriptions for Autopulse and Plasma also state that the weapon range is 'short'. Due to Safety Override and the abundance of weapons around 450 range I believe we can safely conclude that 500 and under is considered short range, while 600-800 would obviously be medium ranged.

Falcon updated to 0.8a-RC19 and notes changed; http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Falcon

Sunder updated to 0.8a-RC19 and notes changed; http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Sunder
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Dri

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 07:56:26 PM »

Some ships that have received new sprites and should have their sprite updated on the wiki:

Sunder
Apogee
Conquest
Lasher
Onslaught (the 14th BG sprite is fine)

And I'm sure there are quite a few others...

EDIT: I know the Venture sprite was updated and probably the Hammerhead too.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 08:00:42 PM by Dri »
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 09:12:04 PM »

Some ships that have received new sprites and should have their sprite updated on the wiki:

Sunder
Apogee
Conquest
Lasher
Onslaught (the 14th BG sprite is fine)

And I'm sure there are quite a few others...

EDIT: I know the Venture sprite was updated and probably the Hammerhead too.

Sunder & D variant sprites updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Sunder
Apogee sprite updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Apogee
Conquest sprite updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Conquest
Lasher Luddic Path markings & Luddic Path (LP) variants added, all stats all variants verified for 0.8a-RC19.  Base, Luddic Path markings & Luddic Path (LP) variant sprites updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Lasher
Onslaught base variant sprite updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Onslaught
Venture sprite updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Venture
Hammerhead base variant sprite updated http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Hammerhead
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Histidine

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 09:42:17 PM »

Good job!

Various comments on wiki stuff:
- I'm thinking of writing a Java bot to do the grunt work of updating ship/weapon stats when a new version comes out, although for 0.8 we may still have to do it manually (and already have in the case of weapons, it looks like).

- In response to your PM, TheWetFish:
Quote
I am considering if all of the hullmods should go into the one big hullmod page or if some should be separated out.  There are regular hull mods, D mods, built-in mods (often unique) and niche cases of built-in fighters
The current Hullmod page is getting pretty bloated, so it could be kept as a central reference page and the contents migrated to several pages.

Not sure if they should get assigned to pages based on the proposed categories, though: "D mods" is a meaningful logical grouping, but "built-in-mods" is not (e.g. Flux Shunt and Targeting Supercomputer don't have any particular relationship beyond the fact that they come built into certain ships and are otherwise unavailable).

Perhaps each hullmod could get its own page with template, + a shared navbox. This would also give more room for commentary on the usefulness and such of each hullmod.

- Other things that I want to get done (and are hugely overdue in some cases):
Spoiler
  • Missile weapon images
  • New abilities
  • Derelicts/Remnants
  • Update star system pages (the current ones are a mess, and the new systems should also be added)
  • Update faction pages (ditto)
  • Update pages for a couple of important mechanics (sensors, economy)
  • Ship systems: new systems + navbox
[close]

The descriptions for Autopulse and Plasma also state that the weapon range is 'short'. Due to Safety Override and the abundance of weapons around 450 range I believe we can safely conclude that 500 and under is considered short range, while 600-800 would obviously be medium ranged.
Depends. "Short range" without any clarification probably doesn't make it clear, but I think the relevant point of comparison is not to other, unrelated weapons, but to the other large energy weapons: HIL and Tachyon Lance. These are noticeably longer-ranged than APL or Plasma Cannon at 1000 vs. 700.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:45:03 PM by Histidine »
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Dri

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 10:45:23 PM »

Hey, good stuff TheWetfish! I for one use the Wiki pretty frequently as I like to look up stuff and compare stats. And thanks in advance to you, Histidine, for any future work you put into it too!

Now, if there is one change I'd really love is for the main "Ships" and "Weapons" link to take you to a page with the tables that list all the various ships/weapons in a nice block. Currently those two links take you to a category page that just seemingly has random "Pages in X" that isn't very helpful. It takes extra clicks to get to the nice tables...
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 10:55:07 PM »

Good job!

Various comments on wiki stuff:
- I'm thinking of writing a Java bot to do the grunt work of updating ship/weapon stats when a new version comes out, although for 0.8 we may still have to do it manually (and already have in the case of weapons, it looks like).

- In response to your PM, TheWetFish:
Quote
I am considering if all of the hullmods should go into the one big hullmod page or if some should be separated out.  There are regular hull mods, D mods, built-in mods (often unique) and niche cases of built-in fighters
The current Hullmod page is getting pretty bloated, so it could be kept as a central reference page and the contents migrated to several pages.

Not sure if they should get assigned to pages based on the proposed categories, though: "D mods" is a meaningful logical grouping, but "built-in-mods" is not (e.g. Flux Shunt and Targeting Supercomputer don't have any particular relationship beyond the fact that they come built into certain ships and are otherwise unavailable).

Perhaps each hullmod could get its own page with template, + a shared navbox. This would also give more room for commentary on the usefulness and such of each hullmod.

- Other things that I want to get done (and are hugely overdue in some cases):
Spoiler
  • Missile weapon images
  • New abilities
  • Derelicts/Remnants
  • Update star system pages (the current ones are a mess, and the new systems should also be added)
  • Update faction pages (ditto)
  • Update pages for a couple of important mechanics (sensors, economy)
  • Ship systems: new systems + navbox
[close]

The descriptions for Autopulse and Plasma also state that the weapon range is 'short'. Due to Safety Override and the abundance of weapons around 450 range I believe we can safely conclude that 500 and under is considered short range, while 600-800 would obviously be medium ranged.
Depends. "Short range" without any clarification probably doesn't make it clear, but I think the relevant point of comparison is not to other, unrelated weapons, but to the other large energy weapons: HIL and Tachyon Lance. These are noticeably longer-ranged than APL or Plasma Cannon at 1000 vs. 700.

Oh thank god, you are around.  I am considering making changes to one of the major templates.  Queue obligatory waiting for almost-heart-attack to subside. 

I'm mostly sure it's a harmless, minor change but I would very much appreciate a second set of eyes on it, particularly as I'm still getting used to the local conventions.  I've dropped some details on the talk page; http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Template_talk:ShipInfobox 
Some variables have very cool coloured modifiers.  Recovery cost can now be modified but doesn't have cool modifiers.  Would like to add in modifiers for recovery cost so it can hang with the cool stats too. 
I've tested the change on template:ShipInfoBoxTest and it worked OK so really just wanting to avoid inexperienced, unknown failure modes.  Fun times

The csv format of game data and the standardisation of wiki information certainly is making suggestive eyes at automated updates.  I recommend we do not pursue it for this major release but instead do the groundwork in anticipation of having it ready for next major release.  We're already here right now, there is bound to be something that is not quite as standardised as we thought and I think I can handle this volume of manual data handling fairly easily.  We should do it but let's not rush it right now

I think it's a great idea to keep the current hullmod page as a reference and start on individual pages.  The categories and linkages can changed fairly easily as needed.  I'll look at setting up a Nav box to include all of the hullmod pages and get started on them

Images are slowing me down.  Hullmods & ships have single images in the game files and I've got that down OK.  Weapons and such look like they are multiple images that need to be layered together? My rudimentary MS Paint skills aren't going to suffice here; what's a good way to do it?

What's the policy on spoiler information in the wiki? Spoiler banner warnings at the top?

Updated guides and mechanics pages are desperately needed but likely best not done by me.  Maybe see if the community wants to put something together? Similar to how some helpfully enterprising people have been suggesting updates in this thread and then I execute them (the changes, not the people, er, phrasing).

I'll let you guys discuss the finer points of short definitions.  Let me know when there's enough consensus to update the wiki :)
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 11:04:44 PM »

Hey, good stuff TheWetfish! I for one use the Wiki pretty frequently as I like to look up stuff and compare stats. And thanks in advance to you, Histidine, for any future work you put into it too!

Now, if there is one change I'd really love is for the main "Ships" and "Weapons" link to take you to a page with the tables that list all the various ships/weapons in a nice block. Currently those two links take you to a category page that just seemingly has random "Pages in X" that isn't very helpful. It takes extra clicks to get to the nice tables...

Hum.  Do you mean nice table as in the Ballistic Weapons table?  http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Ballistic

Does want you want already exist on the wiki & you would like the links changed, or are we looking to create new content that isn't there yet?
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Dri

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2017, 11:24:09 PM »

I mean the tables that have all the links to the various weapons/ships.

http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Odyssey

Scroll down a bit after you go to the link above and you'll see the tables I'm talking about (no particular reason I linked the Odyssey).
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TheWetFish

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Re: Starsector wikia
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2017, 11:44:06 PM »

I mean the tables that have all the links to the various weapons/ships.

http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Odyssey

Scroll down a bit after you go to the link above and you'll see the tables I'm talking about (no particular reason I linked the Odyssey).

NavBoxes :) I'll get on it.

Edit: like this? http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Ships
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 12:03:45 AM by TheWetFish »
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