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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: .8 feedback thread  (Read 103688 times)

A.Winge

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #360 on: May 19, 2017, 11:34:44 AM »

They shouldn't be nerfed to the ground, Mora should have some niche. Tanking is interesting, but it's also irritating if you can do that for much longer than any other ship in your weight class.
About level cap: look for "maxlevel" or something like that in starsector-core/data/config/settings.json.

I know, I'm just venting.  Beware the excess flux  ;)

Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out.  Along with some extra mods.
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Toxcity

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #361 on: May 19, 2017, 11:59:12 AM »

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that Damper Field's damage resistance procs before the armor formula. So if a harpoon (750 HE) hits a Mora with its base armor value (1250), it should only do 281 damage. Not to mention the Mora still has its shield and fighters to keep missiles at bay. The missiles also are good to keep enemy ships at bay.
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Thaago

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #362 on: May 19, 2017, 06:28:16 PM »

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that Damper Field's damage resistance procs before the armor formula. So if a harpoon (750 HE) hits a Mora with its base armor value (1250), it should only do 281 damage. Not to mention the Mora still has its shield and fighters to keep missiles at bay. The missiles also are good to keep enemy ships at bay.

Hmmm, I dunno. I've been playing 'The Last Hurrah' a lot, and I'll pump multiple Reapers into a Mora and just barely get through the armor. I'll check to make sure its not just bias.
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LoneWolf

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #363 on: May 19, 2017, 06:44:36 PM »

Why were bounty missions so nerfed now? every single bounty is only in far off unexplored solar systems, still haven't found a single character bounty somewhere in the established systems.
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Toxcity

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #364 on: May 19, 2017, 07:36:30 PM »

Bounties were changed to be in uninhabited systems. As for named bounties, I think those are from SWP.

EDIT: You may want to try SS+. It makes the game a bit harder, but it lets early bounties generate in the core systems.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that Damper Field's damage resistance procs before the armor formula. So if a harpoon (750 HE) hits a Mora with its base armor value (1250), it should only do 281 damage. Not to mention the Mora still has its shield and fighters to keep missiles at bay. The missiles also are good to keep enemy ships at bay.

Hmmm, I dunno. I've been playing 'The Last Hurrah' a lot, and I'll pump multiple Reapers into a Mora and just barely get through the armor. I'll check to make sure its not just bias.

My bad, I was using math based on the nerfed Damper Field. With the current 67% resistance one, a reaper only does 1816 damage to a Mora with base armor (1250) and DF active. The math is:

4000 * 2 = 8000; For HE damage modifier.
8000 * .33 = 2666.667; With DF reduction.
2666.667 * (2666.667 / (2666.667 + 1250)) = 1815.6; Plugged into armor formula.

If DF did damage reduction after the damage formula, Reaper would have done 2306.3 damage.

4000 * 2 = 8000; For HE damage modifier.
8000 * (8000 / (8000 + 1250)) = 6918.9; Plugged into armor formula.
8000 * .33 = 2306.3; With DF reduction.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 07:50:04 PM by Toxcity »
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2_Wycked

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #365 on: May 20, 2017, 08:23:29 AM »

These are my thoughts after about 20ish hours. Full warning, I haven't played in about 2 years so I'm not exactly sure how new some of these features are. Also I'm sure Alex already has plenty of notes on what he wants to look at/alter so apologies if a lot of this was already pointed out or suggested.

Tutorial
This is great for introducing us to some of the lower level mechanics, but I think more could be done to indicate what exactly the core gameplay loop of Starsector is since the end of the tutorial just kind of drops you off the leash without any direction. Also, I would like to see more of a reward for completing the whole tutorial because in my experience I had a much easier time just skipping it and taking the 30k you start with that way. Way too often after completing the tutorial I was trapped in a slow death spiral as I didn't have enough money or supplies to really get out of Corvus, the local bounty ran out before I could build up any cash, and I couldn't sell my ships to get anything different since sell prices are so low now.

It would also be nice to have the option to take a commission with any faction after completing the tutorial instead of just the hegemony. New players probably won't understand the consequences of grabbing it and will suddenly have a lot of grinding ahead of them if they want to get in good with any other factions. Truthfully I'm not really sure I understand the point of commissions since it's way way easier to get mad cash by doing scan missions or named bounties and AI spawns seem difficult to predict inside systems. Are they intended to be mostly for role-playing to get access to cool unique faction tech?

Missions
These are also mostly great but I think everyone and their dog has noticed how comparatively easy scan/survey missions are for getting rich quick. There is a decent amount of emergent stuff going on between REDACTED, random pirates waiting to roll you, etc., so that it isn't totally risk-free but I'm not sure how "risky" these are intended to be as opposed to bounties or something. The mini-loop of salvaging probes, derelicts, and flying around taking scan missions seems like kind of the intended path for new players (I certainly tended to opt for these missions whenever starting a new game myself) and it is excellent, imo. Not sure if there are plans to flesh out the "get X amount of ____, deliver to Y system" missions but those aren't particularly enticing as is since the economy of the game is left to the player to figure out. Since they're just clicking through lines of dialogue on a menu I'm not sure how much more interesting you could make these, but I personally I ignore them 90% of the time unless I happen to have the requested material on hand or can buy it right there. Maybe that's the point?

Also, I'm not sure if there are some bugs with objective placement for the scan missions but a few times now I've flown out to the ass end of the map to scan something for it to turn out to be located "in the fringes of ___ system" or "in an asteroid belt" or "in the heart of ___ system" and I straight-up cannot find the thing. Definitely could be that I'm missing something but man that is frustrating.

General Notes
The derelict AI drone ships are brilliant. Probably my favorites design-wise, I love how crudely industrial and machine-like they look, very cool stuff. I fought my first survey mothership earlier today and it was awesome! I don't have as much experience with REDACTED but they feel like a good threat to keep scan/survey missions from feeling too comfortable / late game enemy to gear up for and their designs are also top-notch.

UI is mostly solid, but there are a couple of menus (planet survey, mission list while at a station/planet) that you need to hit ESC to back out of instead of TAB, which seems to do that everywhere else.

Ship availability seems a bit whack. I'm guessing that the Hegemony is supposed to bet the "beginner" faction since their low-tech ships are everywhere? The ratios seem skewed too far to the low-end ships when you realize that markets only reset after 30 days or if you clean them out of stuff to sell (could be wrong about that, this is something that should also be communicated to the player about the economy imo). I've got a solid 20 hours in and I've literally never seen an Apogee, for example, or an Astral or Aurora outside of enemy fleets. It could be that the higher tech ships are intended to be something players level into and I just never progressed that far but I would personally really like the option to choose a faction to side with at the beginning instead of being forced onto the Hegemony. Since it's kind of a grind to build up rep with other factions a lot of their more advanced ships are locked out for quite a while.

With all of that said, I'm very impressed by how far the game has come and I'm having a ton a fun with it. Kudos to Alex and the rest of the team!

TLDR
- Scan/survey missions are great, exploration is great. Maybe a bit too easy considering the amount of $$$ you get for them?
- Tutorial is very much appreciated for a returning player like myself but could be fleshed out more with info about the economy, bounties, faction relations, etc.
- UI is slick and just needs a couple of tweaks here and there.
- REDACTED and remnants/AI drones are excellent. Exploration feels very rewarding now.
- I would personally like to see more bounties or maybe the option to go on combat missions for factions as a supplementary thing? Feels a bit tough to make a living as a dedicated combat player, idk.









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isaacssv552

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #366 on: May 20, 2017, 10:58:13 AM »

I think you may have had bad luck with the starting markets, I had a Paragon, Astral, Odyssey, Aurora, and Apogee in my first visits to Tri-tachyon markets.
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A.Winge

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #367 on: May 21, 2017, 08:57:05 AM »

I think you may have had bad luck with the starting markets, I had a Paragon, Astral, Odyssey, Aurora, and Apogee in my first visits to Tri-tachyon markets.

I remember seeing good variety in the Tri-Tac market before getting a commission.  But in that same game, once I decided to go with the Tri-Tac, the only ship I could find afterwards was the Odyssey.  I was not pleased...  >:(

How often do the markets refresh?
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isaacssv552

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #368 on: May 21, 2017, 11:30:44 AM »

I think you may have had bad luck with the starting markets, I had a Paragon, Astral, Odyssey, Aurora, and Apogee in my first visits to Tri-tachyon markets.

I remember seeing good variety in the Tri-Tac market before getting a commission.  But in that same game, once I decided to go with the Tri-Tac, the only ship I could find afterwards was the Odyssey.  I was not pleased...  >:(

How often do the markets refresh?
30 days, although you could also install console commands and use forcemarketupdate. Alternatively, you could try going on a long surveying trip or something. (Long travel times are the quickest way to burn days relative to playtime I've found.)
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Pushover

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #369 on: May 21, 2017, 02:37:01 PM »

The best way I found to wait for ships is to take procurement missions. Hybrasil has a lot of possibility to get in-system missions, and has a good variety of goods to take out of system. Waiting for the missions/doing them takes a few days, so you can check back once you finish a mission or two.
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Megas

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #370 on: May 21, 2017, 07:09:04 PM »

Converted Hangar hullmod is really fun, but I need the extra OP from Loadout Design 3 to fit that and a decent wing of fighters along with everything else my ship needs to do its job, and at least Fighter Doctrine 3 for various defensive fighter buffs.

One thing I have not tried yet for soloing the simulator is Paragon with Converted Hangar, with Talons, Sparks, or Lux as the wing of fighters.  The fighters will be useless against the capitals, but Paragon can deal with them.  The point of the fighters is after Paragon kills most of the capitals and cruisers, the Paragon may try to locate isolated small ships then sic fighters after them instead of trying to chase one then get rushed by about forty enemy frigates.  If all it triggers is "Minor Enemy Presence", then the idea is to slowly wear away and destroy isolated ships one at a time until they kill enough that my Paragon cannot be swarmed.  It would be an ugly waiting game since it takes a while for fighters to kill and replenish themselves.  I have no idea if this would work, but it is the only idea I have left for trying to solo a simulator that a skilled Paragon could theoretically solo if the AI was not intelligent enough.  I probably will not try this idea soon (due to wasting points on Salvaging and Navigation to get the hullmod in the first place from a research station).

I will probably post my big wall-of-text general commentary of 0.8 soon, in a new topic.  It is mostly done, but I need to edit it some more.
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Thaago

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #371 on: May 22, 2017, 12:27:11 PM »

One quick piece of feedback: fighter corpses are still doing far too much damage. I just had a Talon impact do 240 armor damage to a Paragon - that comes out to a 740 damage shot. When there are dozens of impacts during a battle, I'm finding that I have to keep shields up not because of weapons, but because of high velocity hulks.
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Zhentar

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #372 on: May 22, 2017, 12:44:33 PM »

Way too often after completing the tutorial I was trapped in a slow death spiral as I didn't have enough money or supplies to really get out of Corvus, the local bounty ran out before I could build up any cash, and I couldn't sell my ships to get anything different since sell prices are so low now

The bounties seem kind of like a newbie trap now... flying around in system I can never find a pirate fleet larger than three frigates (which move too quickly to catch most of the time). In hyperspace there are larger fleets fairly frequently but there's a lot of competition to actually catch & fight them, so you can easily burn through a lot of fuel with little to no reward.
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Cik

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #373 on: May 22, 2017, 12:48:16 PM »

my advice is, sit in hyperspace and go dark

if you don't move, you don't burn fuel. chill out near a star somewhere and pick off passing fleets.

you still get the bounty as long as you are near enough to the star in hyperspace.
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Igncom1

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Re: .8 feedback thread
« Reply #374 on: May 22, 2017, 06:53:10 PM »

my advice is, sit in hyperspace and go dark

if you don't move, you don't burn fuel. chill out near a star somewhere and pick off passing fleets.

you still get the bounty as long as you are near enough to the star in hyperspace.

You do burn fuel while sitting still, but very slowly.

Supplies however drain away no matter what you are doing or where you are going. There are no ports to park in and no asteroids to latch onto. Your choices are medium supply drain and maximum CR restore drain.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.
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