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Author Topic: ITU and DTC in 0.8  (Read 10416 times)

Morrokain

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2017, 10:48:53 PM »

There are some builds that work without DTC/ITU and can make use of the extra OP elsewhere; those would suffer. Off the top of my head: carriers, missile boats, SO builds, possibly UI builds now that UI gives -25% range - all would have less OP to work with, and could become non-viable as a result.

Ok good points. :) As long as this is true the bad parts of the system aren't really all that bad. Especially SO, I tend to forget that is a thing lol. My cap of choice is actually an Onslaught with ITU and all medium weapons to retain range advantage in 90% of cases but be very flux efficient and defensive. Nothing short of a lv 20 officered paragon can beat it when combined with skills. Even then its a close fight. Once the enemy reaches max flux they can't fire anymore and I usually can fire continuously even taking return hits on the shields. (You started the derailing, not me ;D )

Carriers are different now too. I wouldn't have seen the usefulness of skipping it before without fighters costing OP. Now I can definitely see where this would be a factor since fighters outrange everything else.

Missile boats? Ehh I'm less convinced on this one lol. Most of the time with missile boats the extra range on the secondary PD screen or support weapon is worth the OP. Even getting the best missile hullmods leaves enough room to "have it all" in most cases. At least before.

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.

 :o Suddenly I am having a crisis of cap choice in 0.8a! It was very solidly the new Legion before (so awesome looking!)... but now... thats so much range!

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TheEndstoneGolem

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 12:59:00 AM »

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.

I don't think that would derail anything, whilst people will believe that that is unbalanced (and arguably it could be), this fits the Paragon's role. It's not a mobile ship unlike the Conquest or Onslaught. The Paragon reminds me of a castle, whereas the Onslaught could be seen as a monstrous armoured vehicle. This range boost is really good, as it encourages a Paragon to sit there with its fortress shield and outrange ships in 1v1s.
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AxleMC131

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 01:19:06 AM »

The Paragon reminds me of a castle, whereas the Onslaught could be seen as a monstrous armoured vehicle.

... Wow. This is exactly the point I was trying to get across in another thread the other day, but I simply couldn't put it into this few words. Wow.  :o
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Megas

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2017, 08:17:45 AM »

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.

I don't think that would derail anything, whilst people will believe that that is unbalanced (and arguably it could be), this fits the Paragon's role. It's not a mobile ship unlike the Conquest or Onslaught. The Paragon reminds me of a castle, whereas the Onslaught could be seen as a monstrous armoured vehicle. This range boost is really good, as it encourages a Paragon to sit there with its fortress shield and outrange ships in 1v1s.
This is why Onslaught with max skills is better than everything at killing fleets, even better than Paragon, because Onslaught has superior mobility (with Burn Drive), superior shot range (range 900+ weapons beat 600-700 used by Paragon's energy weapons), and the best PD in the game to munch all the small stuff.

Paragon is basically a modern Star Castle.

Paragon getting a built-in range mod might let it snipe at things it used to do with 2500+ range Tachyon Lance, and Paragon was a terror back then, frying ships from beyond sensor range, hidden by fog-of-war.  Today, Paragon can be kite-and-sniped almost effortlessly by a Dominator and possibly Eagle with 900+ range ballistics for a flawless victory.  Today's Paragon, as an AI opponent, is a joke - slow and short-ranged.
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2017, 08:27:38 AM »

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.
What the f- death by random tachyon lance
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2017, 08:45:22 AM »

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.
What the f- death by random tachyon lance
lol
You know that the T Lance use to be 5K range? Then it dropped to 2.5K, then 1K for now
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Thaago

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2017, 09:07:55 AM »

I loved the old 5k Tachyon Lance... but boy was it an unholy terror when massed. I had a Paragon with 4 and 2 Odyssey's with 3, and used fighters from the Odyssey's as targeting scouts. A lovely purple "I Win" button.
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TheEndstoneGolem

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2017, 12:35:20 PM »

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.
What the f- death by random tachyon lance

This actually made me laugh xD
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AxleMC131

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2017, 02:39:12 PM »

As it is, I'm fairly sure that currently (0.7.2a) the record for "longest range non-missile weapon" goes to the Gauss Cannon, with a range of 1,200 units. Its nearest rivals are all 1,000 units.

(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!)
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ArkAngel

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2017, 04:32:20 PM »

The question must be asked then: what does this system provide as a benefit to the player experience? There isn't really a decision being made here, is there? You just need the hullmod to be effective. There is not an alternative strategy to think about or consider. It seems to me that there isn't any benefit to the system then, but there are several potential pitfalls that could be a detriment to the overall fun of using capitals and cruisers under the right circumstances.

There are some builds that work without DTC/ITU and can make use of the extra OP elsewhere; those would suffer. Off the top of my head: carriers, missile boats, SO builds, possibly UI builds now that UI gives -25% range - all would have less OP to work with, and could become non-viable as a result.

Now, to derail this thread a bit: the Paragon gets a built-in "Advanced Targeting Core" in 0.8a, at the cost of losing a few OP. It grants +100% range.
Does The ATC stack with DTC or ItU?
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Alex

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2017, 04:48:02 PM »

Does The ATC stack with DTC or ItU?

Definitely, absolutely, positively not.

... unless there's a bug. Which I don't think there is, but you never know.
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AxleMC131

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2017, 05:14:43 PM »

Does The ATC stack with DTC or ItU?

Definitely, absolutely, positively not.

... unless there's a bug. Which I don't think there is, but you never know.

Haha, fair enough. If we discover it, we'll let you know. ;)

Speaking of, yesterday I discovered that while you can't have both Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector on a ship, you can have either one of them and Safety Overrides working together. That made for some lightning-fast vessels...  :o
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Thaago

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2017, 05:22:02 PM »

Does The ATC stack with DTC or ItU?

Definitely, absolutely, positively not.

... unless there's a bug. Which I don't think there is, but you never know.

If nothing has changed, it should stack with advanced optics though... the Beamagon... it has risen stronger then before!! :: Evil Laughter, Lightning Crackling in the background ::
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Sy

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2017, 04:48:17 AM »

you can't have both Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector on a ship, you can have either one of them and Safety Overrides working together. That made for some lightning-fast vessels...  :o
both of these are being changed in 0.8 anyway, with AE being only for increasing burn speed, and UI being the only combat speed hullmod (aside from SO, which is a combination of different things), and at the cost of some weapon range (-25% iirc) rather than vulnerable engines.
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AxleMC131

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Re: ITU and DTC in 0.8
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2017, 02:50:12 PM »

you can't have both Augmented Engines and Unstable Injector on a ship, you can have either one of them and Safety Overrides working together. That made for some lightning-fast vessels...  :o

both of these are being changed in 0.8 anyway, with AE being only for increasing burn speed, and UI being the only combat speed hullmod (aside from SO, which is a combination of different things), and at the cost of some weapon range (-25% iirc) rather than vulnerable engines.

Useful to know prior to the update, thanks. :)
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