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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] Outer Rim Alliance v0.74 (27/09/2017)  (Read 39812 times)
Morgan Rue
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« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2017, 02:15:06 PM »

oh. question: is it possible to use the console to add the hullmod, that enables broadsides, to the iliad?
There isn't a hullmod that forces broadsides. Its just the way ORA ships are built causes them to broadside with a proper lodout.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2017, 03:47:09 PM »

oh. question: is it possible to use the console to add the hullmod, that enables broadsides, to the iliad?
There isn't a hullmod that forces broadsides. Its just the way ORA ships are built causes them to broadside with a proper lodout.

-.- See, that's what I thought. Man I was confused for a bit there. XD
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« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2017, 05:58:47 AM »

It seems to me it is the weakest fraction of all game and mods. The ships are slow, they have not enough armor and HP. Their weapons simply disgusting. Shells never reach the purpose. They miss. They can`t overcome PD. They deal a weak, energy damage.

In attempt to use normal weapons of other mods or vanila O.R.A. catastrophically overheat. The only option it to use beam weapons. But it can't be made! Now there is this foolish hullmod! As opponent they pettiness. They aren't capable to get to my ship even! They just explode!

Why to do one more weak fraction as SCY? All right. SCY at least have unique mechanics(by the way about her - it was possible to make more interesting). But here that? Whipping boys?

Can be necessary to make an analog "Intestellar Imperium"? To remake hullmod and to clean a penalty from it for the O.R.A. ships. To turn out interesting fraction using long range beam weapon and weakening enemy beam weapon.
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Tufted Titmouse
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« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2017, 09:05:47 AM »

i'm surprised i haven't found out about this till now, I'm also surprised no one made this joke yet
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cjusa
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« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2017, 09:53:14 AM »

i'm surprised i haven't found out about this till now, I'm also surprised no one made this joke yet
Because it was me, Dio!
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« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2017, 10:21:52 AM »

-snip-
Rip
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Wyvern
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« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2017, 05:50:18 PM »

Hm.  I'm using a slightly outdated version of ORA, but I also haven't seen any mention of this in update notes - is there any particular reason ORA is hostile to the Luddic Church, but neutral to the Luddic Path?
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2017, 06:28:39 PM »

Could be lore-related.
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xenoargh
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« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2017, 07:20:42 PM »

Tried this out.

ORA ships:

1.  Are slow; too slow to maintain broadsides in most cases.

2.  Have inefficient shields that are huge because they're long / skinny (the Conquest problem).  Suggestion: do something like the "shields" I did for a few long / skinny things in Vacuum, where it ignored the Vanilla shield system entirely but behaved like a shield in all important respects.  Really not hard to set up, but you'll have to make a (fairly trivial) art asset for the shield.

3.  Have energy shot weapons with insufficient punch to really make the broadsides work out well.  They simply don't compare with Heavy Blasters, and that's about the only choice that makes sense, because you're not going to get multiple chances to fire before their weak Shields collapse.

4.  I don't even slightly understand the Beam nerf and massive penalties for asymmetry; the "buff" doesn't help them much, the nerf hurts ORA a lot.

5.  The mobility system for the Cruisers is pretty nifty, but the smaller ships lack something similar.

6.  Instead of ITU, please give them something better that doesn't allow ITU.  I totally understand why that's part of their design, but it needs to be better (and, if you want to keep the Beam nerf as a concept, it should just buff Energy but debuff Beams).

7.  What is the strange dark-purple radius at a huge distance around certain ORA ships?  It's a fancy graphics effect but it doesn't appear to have a purpose and it's fairly expensive to render.
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cjusa
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« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2017, 08:09:37 PM »

Tried this out.

ORA ships:

1.  Are slow; too slow to maintain broadsides in most cases.

2.  Have inefficient shields that are huge because they're long / skinny (the Conquest problem).  Suggestion: do something like the "shields" I did for a few long / skinny things in Vacuum, where it ignored the Vanilla shield system entirely but behaved like a shield in all important respects.  Really not hard to set up, but you'll have to make a (fairly trivial) art asset for the shield.

3.  Have energy shot weapons with insufficient punch to really make the broadsides work out well.  They simply don't compare with Heavy Blasters, and that's about the only choice that makes sense, because you're not going to get multiple chances to fire before their weak Shields collapse.

4.  I don't even slightly understand the Beam nerf and massive penalties for asymmetry; the "buff" doesn't help them much, the nerf hurts ORA a lot.

5.  The mobility system for the Cruisers is pretty nifty, but the smaller ships lack something similar.

6.  Instead of ITU, please give them something better that doesn't allow ITU.  I totally understand why that's part of their design, but it needs to be better (and, if you want to keep the Beam nerf as a concept, it should just buff Energy but debuff Beams).

7.  What is the strange dark-purple radius at a huge distance around certain ORA ships?  It's a fancy graphics effect but it doesn't appear to have a purpose and it's fairly expensive to render.
To answer #7, the aura marks out the distance the "beam nerf" applies. Hostile ships passing into its area suffer the penalties.
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Very few problems can't be solved with gratuitous violence and epic explosions.

I am pro at Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip-Poker. Fight me.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Eagles and Falcons on fire off the L5 of Sindria. I watched Tachyon beams glitter in the dark near the Perseus Nebula...
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« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2017, 08:19:47 PM »

Hm.  I'm using a slightly outdated version of ORA, but I also haven't seen any mention of this in update notes - is there any particular reason ORA is hostile to the Luddic Church, but neutral to the Luddic Path?

Luddic Path are the bad side of the Luddic Church. Just about everyone hates them.
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AxleMC131
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« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2017, 08:55:08 PM »

Hm.  I'm using a slightly outdated version of ORA, but I also haven't seen any mention of this in update notes - is there any particular reason ORA is hostile to the Luddic Church, but neutral to the Luddic Path?

Luddic Path are the bad side of the Luddic Church. Just about everyone hates them.

@Orikson I could be misinterpreting your comment, but I think you need to read Wyvern's question more closely.  Wink

"... HOSTILE to LUDDIC CHURCH....    ... NEUTRAL to LUDDIC PATH....."
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« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2017, 10:48:37 PM »

Tried this out.

ORA ships:

1.  Are slow; too slow to maintain broadsides in most cases.

2.  Have inefficient shields that are huge because they're long / skinny (the Conquest problem).  Suggestion: do something like the "shields" I did for a few long / skinny things in Vacuum, where it ignored the Vanilla shield system entirely but behaved like a shield in all important respects.  Really not hard to set up, but you'll have to make a (fairly trivial) art asset for the shield.

3.  Have energy shot weapons with insufficient punch to really make the broadsides work out well.  They simply don't compare with Heavy Blasters, and that's about the only choice that makes sense, because you're not going to get multiple chances to fire before their weak Shields collapse.

4.  I don't even slightly understand the Beam nerf and massive penalties for asymmetry; the "buff" doesn't help them much, the nerf hurts ORA a lot.

5.  The mobility system for the Cruisers is pretty nifty, but the smaller ships lack something similar.

6.  Instead of ITU, please give them something better that doesn't allow ITU.  I totally understand why that's part of their design, but it needs to be better (and, if you want to keep the Beam nerf as a concept, it should just buff Energy but debuff Beams).

7.  What is the strange dark-purple radius at a huge distance around certain ORA ships?  It's a fancy graphics effect but it doesn't appear to have a purpose and it's fairly expensive to render.
Thoughts on a few of these, some of these taken from conversations with Tart in discord:

1. Managing broadsides effectively is hard for humans, and takes practice. (I'm not good doing it, on any ship.)

3. If you're looking for punch, have you tried the Animus Blaster?

4a. Without the beam nerf, beam loadouts on ORA were overbearingly strong in testing compared to other loadouts.

4b. ORA ships were designed to have the OP to fill both sides. The asymmetry thing is so you don't leave one side empty and spend the OP on hullmods.

6. I personally think it's already better than ITU by virtue of being free. Tongue
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2017, 11:21:05 PM »

Hm.  I'm using a slightly outdated version of ORA, but I also haven't seen any mention of this in update notes - is there any particular reason ORA is hostile to the Luddic Church, but neutral to the Luddic Path?
Hum, they start Friendly with the Church and Inhospitable with the Path so you must have brought this upon yourself with your actions.

Tried this out.

ORA ships:

1.  Are slow; too slow to maintain broadsides in most cases.

2.  Have inefficient shields that are huge because they're long / skinny (the Conquest problem).  Suggestion: do something like the "shields" I did for a few long / skinny things in Vacuum, where it ignored the Vanilla shield system entirely but behaved like a shield in all important respects.  Really not hard to set up, but you'll have to make a (fairly trivial) art asset for the shield.

3.  Have energy shot weapons with insufficient punch to really make the broadsides work out well.  They simply don't compare with Heavy Blasters, and that's about the only choice that makes sense, because you're not going to get multiple chances to fire before their weak Shields collapse.

4.  I don't even slightly understand the Beam nerf and massive penalties for asymmetry; the "buff" doesn't help them much, the nerf hurts ORA a lot.

5.  The mobility system for the Cruisers is pretty nifty, but the smaller ships lack something similar.

6.  Instead of ITU, please give them something better that doesn't allow ITU.  I totally understand why that's part of their design, but it needs to be better (and, if you want to keep the Beam nerf as a concept, it should just buff Energy but debuff Beams).

7.  What is the strange dark-purple radius at a huge distance around certain ORA ships?  It's a fancy graphics effect but it doesn't appear to have a purpose and it's fairly expensive to render.

1. Yes by 10su/s compared to vanilla high tech, except the Revelation but that ship is so strong already, so not too much. Given their range advantage I'd say it's a fair trade. Some selected ships and systems already got a buff in my dev version though.
2. No they haven't. They fall squarely in line with the average High Tech at 0.6 to 0.8 efficiency and 0.3 to 0.5 upkeep.
3. You must be thinking about the Eschewal there, because pretty much all the other weapons deal more damage per shot than their vanilla counterpart (the Choir being an exception). I already halved the fire-rate and doubled the damage per shot of the Eschewal in my dev.
4. Without the beam nerf, there wasn't even a choice when making loadouts: it was beam spam or nothing. Not a single other loadout ever came close to the performances of a beam loadout due to the large amount of slots, their flux efficiency and the way they scale faster when used en masse. With ITU though, the ships can still use them alright but they fall on par with regular weapons instead of being a no-brainer. As for the anti-asymmetry penalty, let's just say that leaving one broadside empty freed up to 40% of the ship's OP to install a broken amount of hullmods. Not going to happen. It is just a clamp on empty mounts though, you can make all the asymmetric loadouts you want as long as slots pairs are occupied by a weapon of the same mount size.
5. I'm trying to not duplicate any system too much. Plus mobility systems are everywhere in mods! Although currently I'm changing the Mirth's skimmer for HEF (and raised its speed) but I'm giving a custom teleporter to the Harmony Destroyer.
6. ITU does the same and at least it's simpler than having to explain why you can't use it because of another hullmod since it isn't possible to prevent players from trying to install it without modifying the vanilla file.
7. The beam nerf applies to all ships inside that range of an ORA hull, both allies and enemies. It didn't specifically profiled that particular effect, but I'm fairly certain it's cheaper than using deco weapons on all ships to get the same look.
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WKOB
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« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2017, 05:37:39 PM »

Just putting in my thoughts here that you might consider - using the modules system you could theoretically set it up so that these broadsides have appropriate port and starboard shields without having 360* coverage.
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