Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 14

Author Topic: Ship Recovery  (Read 97679 times)

Sy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2017, 04:22:42 AM »

You'd have to beat the rest of the fleet as you still only get to recover (enemy) ships on wins.
pretty much this. and the chance to recover enemy ships is still only 25% base without skill, 40% with skill (assuming the numbers stay as they are, which they might not), and further halfed if the ship broke apart, which happens to about half of the total killed ships... which makes 18.75% and 30%? so you'll usually have to fight several fleets with a Paragon in them until you're able to recover one, if you're after that specific ship.

i really don't see why rarer ships would need a lower recovery chance than common ones. their rarity itself already means you will get proportionally fewer opportunities to recover these ships, simply because you're encountering them more rarely in the first place.


The new mechanic is more salvage than a boarding action, though.
right, i worded it a bit poorly. i meant: since the removal of boarding means marines will (for now) not have any use besides being a trade commodity, boarding could still be kept (in different form) as part of the new ship salvage mechanics.

Quote
I'd love boarding as a separate mechanic, not to get hulls, but as a less violent alternative to battle. E.g., a outgunned trader could agree to let you send marines over to confiscate some of their cargo.
hmm, if the trader already surrendered to avoid being shot to pieces, why would you need marines to secure the cargo? ^^

Quote
Also, as some one mentioned, exploration of derelicts.
yeah, that sounds cool! :]
Logged

nomadic_leader

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2017, 04:53:39 AM »

The new mechanic is both boarding or salvage. The focus outside combat is "zoomed out" so it avoids going into the details of how each particular ship is taken.

One thing that might fit is when you are recovering enemy ships, you have to front a number of marines in addition to the prize crew. A random portion of these, sadly, will succumb to foe or misadventure, but in every case you still end up taking the ship.

Unrelated Suggestion: It seems needlessly complex that when ships DON'T break up there is still a chance you WON'T to be able to recover them, and how if they DO break up, and there is a chance you WILL recover them.

Maybe just keep it real simple: If a ship breaks up, you can't salvage it. If it doesn't break up, you can salvage it. And adjust the frequency of breakups accordingly, plus throw in ways to modify the breakup frequency by using ion cannons or skills.
Logged

Histidine

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4661
    • View Profile
    • GitHub profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2017, 05:56:35 AM »

Given the talk about pirate Sunders and such, I have to ask: If a regular ship becomes a (D) from damage, will it return to the non-D hull version (in terms of appearance and hull class name) if fully restored?
Otherwise it'd be a bit odd to have a (D) ship that's actually indistinguishable stats-wise from the pristine version. Though full consistency would also require that the handcrafted D skins (that don't have destroyed mounts) to have a "turn into this hull if fully restored" tag.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 06:09:07 AM by Histidine »
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4403
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2017, 09:24:58 AM »

Regarding the confusion about different types of (D)-hulls, I'd suggest to unify them all into fully reversible versions. Meaning, no damages that can't be fixed, even on pre-(D) hulls. Otherwise you have a discrepancy between gameplay and lore, like a (very mild) version of the "main character is much weaker/stronger in cut scenes than in game play" issue.


hmm, if the trader already surrendered to avoid being shot to pieces, why would you need marines to secure the cargo? ^^

That's how it works in real life, isn't it? :) Customs, units of military blockades and such have to physically board vessels to inspect them, and if there's danger of resistance they have to go armed.

Spoiler
[close]

Currently the game describes inspection as being just remote scans, found contraband has to be ejected. (And for some reason that is not explained in the lore only AI patrols can do scans.)
Physical inspections seem more interesting to me. Maybe something could go wrong, and your inspection team is lead into a trap? Gameplay wise there should be a risk to boarding, so you can't just run around and collect free goods from all inferior fleets for no costs.

 
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2017, 09:46:57 AM »

Were any of these features for patch 0.8a extremely difficult for you as a programmer to get up and running? What system (or cluster of similar systems) took the lion's share of effort?

Hmm - I wouldn't say anything was extremely difficult implementation-wise. Most of the difficulty is usually in figuring out exactly how something should work, either just spending time thinking about design or iterating through implementations to get there eventually.

Still, to answer your question - probably procedurally generating star systems; there's a lot of data flying around (something like 5ish spreadsheets) and it took a lot of work figuring out how it should all come together.


Will the procedural D ships have the same description as current D ships? If so, might non-procedural D ships get more unique descriptions to differentiate them?

They have a different description prefix.


1) since a few people mentioned that losing battles is still just as punishing as ever if you can recover ships only from won battles: you mentioned a while ago that you were thinking about making all battles produce a debris field that fleets can then pick through, rather than immediately giving loot. is that still a thing/possibility? with ship wrecks now becoming a pretty big deal, and the ability to keep specific ships in your fleet from ever being destroyed completely, debris fields could provide an opportunity to recover some of your losses even after a defeat or retreat.
depending on whether the enemy fleet who got you is sticking around to pick through the debris themselves (pirates probably would, patrols and traders probably wouldn't), you might have to hide somewhere nearby until they're gone, but could then return to see if there's anything left for you to salvage. even if the enemy took the most valuable wrecks and pieces for themselves, you might still be able to partially recover your losses through stuff they left behind, especially if you're already specialized in this industry combat playstyle.

Debris fields post-battle are in the dev build. Currently considering ship recovery in relation to that - my feeling is it should be a more rare event than just being able to recover everything that got disabled. After all, chances are if it wasn't taken with the winning fleet, it was broken for salvage. So there'll probably be a small chance to find a recoverable ship.


3) you could add increased weapon recovery chance to the Armored Weapon Mounts hullmod. i understand not wanting to put it together with the guaranteed ship recovery of Reinforced Bulkhead, to avoid making that one feel like a requirement (and i actually feel it might need a bit of a nerf, maybe to something like 30% increased hull, more in line with Blast Doors). but for some loadouts, the weapons are quite a bit more valuable than the ship they're on, so it would be nice to have some option to at least make recovery more likely, even if not guaranteed (for that specific loadout, in addition to the overall increased chance from the skill).

I see what you mean, but the problem is, I think, that it would be the only layer of defense and would thus feel mandatory. If I were to do that, it'd probably be hullmod, officer skill, limited-global skill or some such - like it is for ships - so that nothing specific feels mandatory.


4) since autofit has an option to automatically apply Reinforced Bulkheads, could you add one for Blast Doors as well? seems like that would also be a good idea to have on many of the recovered disposables.

You can always put Blast Doors on the "goal" variant. But, hmm. Maybe that *is* worth it, since crew management is an important side of this - yeah, made a note to do that.


5) if all d-mods from ships like the pather skins can be removed while keeping their beneficial built-in ones, i think those ships could use some nerf to their base stats. i do like that capturing and restoring these ships can be a way to produce a more powerful version (since it takes a bit of luck, work, and more credits than just buying an unaltered version), but getting a 15 OP frigate hullmod for 0 OP instead does seem a little bit crazy. ^^

In theory, I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day we're just talking about a few frigates that aren't that good even with built-in SO - at least, not compared to the cost to restore them. If it was battleships that outclass everything else, yeah, it'd be a problem. As it is, it's more of a fun thing that shouldn't come into play where it would break the balance.

6) with these new features about making low-quality ships worth fielding as the player that are currently only really useful as low-difficulty enemies: can Buffalo MK.II get some love as well? :D like reduced cost and maybe even a bit beefed up durability? i believe lorewise, it's supposed to be a weak but cost-effective alternative to proper military ships, with above average armor to partially offset its poor mobility and lack of shield. but in reality it's not ever worth buying. it actually has significantly less durability than other, shielded destroyers (less than a Hound, even!), only 120 seconds PPT for some reason, and yet it costs almost as much as an Enforcer...

Good call; reduced its deployment/maintenance cost to 4 supplies. Hopefully that'll be enough.


7) you could still keep marines for boarding, as part of the new system: make a portion (something like ~20%?) of recoverable ships cost marines to recover, with the benefit of adding no or less d-mods to the ship and maybe increasing weapon recovery chance. with how the new system works, it should probably just state a number of required/consumed marines rather than a probability of success based on the number of marines in your fleet, something like "boarding and capturing this ship will require a team of at least 50 marines, with expected losses between 5 and 20 marines". the average cost of 'consumed' marines would be lower than having to restore the ship at a port, but still high enough to only do it for ships the player wouldn't treat as just disposable cannon-fodder, and with the added requirement of shipping a large number of marines around.
this would probably be more about flavor that any significant gameplay impact, so i understand if it's just not worth figuring out the exact mechanics and numbers, but i still quite like the idea of keeping some troop transports filled with marines around for boarding opportunities.

I don't want to shoehorn marines into this just because they used to be involved. There's no mechanical reason for this that I can see, and there are likely future things where they'll fit in much more naturally.

anyway, i'm excited, in case you couldn't tell. or, well, i was excited already.. but now i have another thing to be excited about! \o/

:D


Also, related question. Do we NEED to have the sufficient prize crew to capture the hsip, or is that just a suggestion and we can immediately 'mothball' it or accept malfunctions? If so what's to stop us from stuffing a hound with supplies and (somehow) disabling a capital ship and capturing it?

You can still recover and mothball. Nothing is top stop you, other than, you know the "somehow" part. If you can manage that, I figure you've earned it.


A Hound won't do, but I can imagine a tactic were you take some missile boat (e.g. Kite) to assist an allied fleet, finish off damaged enemies and expand your fleet that way. Don't see anything wrong with that :)

Just to note, kill-stealing won't help much as the salvage-sharing is based on overall hull damage dealt, compared to your allies.


The new mechanic is more salvage than a boarding action, though.
I'd love boarding as a separate mechanic, not to get hulls, but as a less violent alternative to battle. E.g., a outgunned trader could agree to let you send marines over to confiscate some of their cargo. Also, as some one mentioned, exploration of derelicts.

Hmm, that's a possibility (and, yes, I've been keeping an eye on the civilized combat thread).


Unrelated Suggestion: It seems needlessly complex that when ships DON'T break up there is still a chance you WON'T to be able to recover them, and how if they DO break up, and there is a chance you WILL recover them.

Maybe just keep it real simple: If a ship breaks up, you can't salvage it. If it doesn't break up, you can salvage it. And adjust the frequency of breakups accordingly, plus throw in ways to modify the breakup frequency by using ion cannons or skills.

I get what you're saying here, yeah. The reason it works the way it does is the breakup chance for hulls is partially set for "feel" reasons rather than purely mechanical ones. So, for example, lighter and flimsier hulls break into pieces more often. Having that be just a reduction of the chance to be recoverable rather than an outright negation of it helps mitigate that. Plus, it's nice that there's still a bit of suspense here, otherwise you'd blow up a Hyperion, see it drift apart, and know right away that you won't get it for recovery. PLUS plus, a 100% chance for non-broken ships to be recoverable would probably be a bit much. And, yes, could make ships break up more often to adjust for that, but it's back to ships-breaking-up having at least partially a cosmetic/feel-based nature.


Given the talk about pirate Sunders and such, I have to ask: If a regular ship becomes a (D) from damage, will it return to the non-D hull version (in terms of appearance and hull class name) if fully restored?
Otherwise it'd be a bit odd to have a (D) ship that's actually indistinguishable stats-wise from the pristine version. Though full consistency would also require that the handcrafted D skins (that don't have destroyed mounts) to have a "turn into this hull if fully restored" tag.
Regarding the confusion about different types of (D)-hulls, I'd suggest to unify them all into fully reversible versions. Meaning, no damages that can't be fixed, even on pre-(D) hulls. Otherwise you have a discrepancy between gameplay and lore, like a (very mild) version of the "main character is much weaker/stronger in cut scenes than in game play" issue.

It'll return to the base hull version, yes. A custom-skin-(D) hull will still stay a (D) hull even after restoration, though.

I think it's less an issue of consistency - restoration removes all d-mods except for the destroyed weapons ones, and that's *all* it does; pretty consistent, right? - but more of what someone might expect. But, again, what happens is explained, and the chances of wanting to restore these (D) ships are extremely slim anyway, so I'm not sure it's worth spending time worrying about. Not to say it's not worth adjusting, ever, but it's just super low priority and I don't see touching it before the release.
Logged

Adraius

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 185
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2017, 10:42:00 AM »

I'm curious, how many people think they will make heavy use of Reinforced Bulkheads?  Maybe I'm an outlier, but I don't see myself burdening my ships with the hullmod when I'm already intending to make heavy use of the salvaging system.  The enemy will be serving up plenty of hulks, I'll just take one of theirs!  My ships generally do a good job of keeping themselves intact anyway, and I can only see them doing a better job with the nerfed officers - milder damage spikes for my officer-less ships to worry about.

Possible counterpoints... I don't recall how many OP Reinforced Bulkheads costs, if it's low enough it may well be worth the opportunity cost anyway.  Also, if I understood Alex's post right, enemy ships will get 2-4 d-mods, but your own ships only one?  If I'm reading that right, what's the reasoning behind that?

I can definitely see the value for especially prized or rare ships, I'm just curious if people are planning on throwing it on most of their fleet.

Side note, while I'm not super hot on Reinforced Bulkheads, Armored Turrets preserving weapons would make me very happy to throw it on a specific selection of ships.  Again, maybe due to a quirk of my playstyle, but when only using captured ships and weapons I always run shorter on weapons than hulls, and that seems like it'll only become more pronounced with 0.8.

Actually, any thoughts on weapon drop rate in relation to hull salvaging availability, Alex?  Was there ever an intention to make weapons available at a certain rate relative to hulls, or are they independent as far as you're concerned?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 10:46:20 AM by Adraius »
Logged

FooF

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2017, 11:47:13 AM »

Why not call the degraded pirate version of hulls that can't be restored "(P)" versions of the ship? "P" for either "Pirate" and/or "Permanent." (D) versions retain their "degraded" status, though they may get restored, while the (P) versions are immediately recognized as unalterably damaged. Seems to me that would clear up a lot of confusion.
Logged

Schwartz

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1452
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #112 on: January 23, 2017, 11:55:38 AM »

Since I've started picking good weapons off every market I visit, I haven't really run into weapon troubles... more like money troubles. I'd say looking at most markets, the chance of finding a handful of good weapons is greater than the chance of finding a ship you want to use.

Taking scavenging alone, yeah, it's probably going to not even out perfectly. But it shouldn't have to. Ship hulls are going to see a certain drop in player value. Why shouldn't good weapons be higher in demand?

And if you use reassembled ships a great deal, you probably don't want to waste your precious single Mjolnir Cannon on one of them anyway. We're going to see more use out of those 'bad picks' like Mortars, Chainguns and Autocannons.

Please, please don't gimp the pirates any more than they are already gimped. Pirates are a faction choice and just because they make for early game fodder, they should not have to be so remarkably dumb as to only use the worst gear they can find. I'd rather see them use sidegraded ships, i.e. (p) variants with a downside such as less armour, counterpointed by an upside such as more speed and agility.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #113 on: January 23, 2017, 12:16:30 PM »

Possible counterpoints... I don't recall how many OP Reinforced Bulkheads costs, if it's low enough it may well be worth the opportunity cost anyway.  Also, if I understood Alex's post right, enemy ships will get 2-4 d-mods, but your own ships only one?  If I'm reading that right, what's the reasoning behind that?

Your ships get one more each time they're recovered, yeah. That way there's a gradual drop-off in ship effectiveness if it's lost and recovered several times, instead of it becoming bottom-of-the-barrel right away. Recovered enemy ships, on the other hand, it's ok/desirable for those to be lower quality to start with so the playstyle is more distinct from having new ships.

In-fiction, something about recovery operations on your own ships being a lot easier than on enemy ones. You don't know how they were set up in the first place, whether they've been sabotaged before the crew abandoned ship, etc.

Side note, while I'm not super hot on Reinforced Bulkheads, Armored Turrets preserving weapons would make me very happy to throw it on a specific selection of ships.  Again, maybe due to a quirk of my playstyle, but when only using captured ships and weapons I always run shorter on weapons than hulls, and that seems like it'll only become more pronounced with 0.8.

Actually, any thoughts on weapon drop rate in relation to hull salvaging availability, Alex?  Was there ever an intention to make weapons available at a certain rate relative to hulls, or are they independent as far as you're concerned?

Well, the ship and weapon recovery chances match across the board (mostly), so that should make the amount of weapons recovered sufficient on average, and more than sufficient if you don't recover every ship you come across. Of course, once you get "guaranteed recovery" for some of your ship, that gets skewed, but as long as you don't recover every ship that comes up, should still be fine.

Bottom line is I think it'll be something to manage, but hopefully weapons will be plentiful enough that it *will* be manageable. Not the top-tier stuff, though, naturally.


Why not call the degraded pirate version of hulls that can't be restored "(P)" versions of the ship? "P" for either "Pirate" and/or "Permanent." (D) versions retain their "degraded" status, though they may get restored, while the (P) versions are immediately recognized as unalterably damaged. Seems to me that would clear up a lot of confusion.

It feels like adding an extra "type" of damaged ships could add to the confusion instead of helping clear things up. And, per what I said previously, it doesn't seem like this'll actually come into play, so the problem seems largely theoretical, no?
Logged

Midnight Kitsune

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2846
  • Your Friendly Forum Friend
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #114 on: January 23, 2017, 12:57:57 PM »

Why not call the degraded pirate version of hulls that can't be restored "(P)" versions of the ship? "P" for either "Pirate" and/or "Permanent." (D) versions retain their "degraded" status, though they may get restored, while the (P) versions are immediately recognized as unalterably damaged. Seems to me that would clear up a lot of confusion.

It feels like adding an extra "type" of damaged ships could add to the confusion instead of helping clear things up. And, per what I said previously, it doesn't seem like this'll actually come into play, so the problem seems largely theoretical, no?
Another reason why I have wanted the the hand crafted D hulls to be seperate from the generated ones: Modder burn out. The reason why I say this is because several modders are now lamenting the fact that they will basically HAVE to make D skins for ALL of their ships because vanilla has some hand built D skins. And knowing how perfectionistic some of these guys get, I know that it will just lead to more and more stress for them
Logged
Help out MesoTroniK, a modder in need

2021 is 2020 won
2022 is 2020 too

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2017, 01:02:44 PM »

Another reason why I have wanted the the hand crafted D hulls to be seperate from the generated ones: Modder burn out. The reason why I say this is because several modders are now lamenting the fact that they will basically HAVE to make D skins for ALL of their ships because vanilla has some hand built D skins. And knowing how perfectionistic some of these guys get, I know that it will just lead to more and more stress for them

... but vanilla mostly doesn't have custom D skins for everything. And for started-normal-but-became-(D)-from-being-recovered ships, all of them are currently using the basic default sprite.

So right now actually the hand-made D hulls are separate from the generated ones, in the way you're thinking. Unless I'm missing something?
Logged

Psiyon

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • Trippy
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2017, 02:03:51 PM »

Another reason why I have wanted the the hand crafted D hulls to be seperate from the generated ones: Modder burn out. The reason why I say this is because several modders are now lamenting the fact that they will basically HAVE to make D skins for ALL of their ships because vanilla has some hand built D skins. And knowing how perfectionistic some of these guys get, I know that it will just lead to more and more stress for them

... but vanilla mostly doesn't have custom D skins for everything. And for started-normal-but-became-(D)-from-being-recovered ships, all of them are currently using the basic default sprite.

So right now actually the hand-made D hulls are separate from the generated ones, in the way you're thinking. Unless I'm missing something?
If I might offer a potential idea: Why not utilize a overlay to signify that a ship is a (D) variant? Something like the standard battle-damage overlay, but probably a lot more subtle. Seems like the (D) variants in general seem a bit desaturated, and have some basic wear and tear on them--at least in my mind, it doesn't seem too crazy to accomplish those visuals with an overlay on the ship sprite. Added benefit: (D) variants can be randomized a bit so they don't all share the same sprite (and will no longer lack visuals indicating degradation), and the intensity of the overlay could be ramped up based on how many (D) mods it has--could allow some interesting moments in combat where players can quickly take out hostiles that are clearly degraded.

Doing stuff like that is never going to produce as pretty results as hand-painting everything of course, but this would be the first way that I'd try to solve this problem.
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4403
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2017, 02:23:06 PM »

@ Psiyon:

How about applying some of the visual damage layer to it permanently? You know, like the weapon impact craters and such. Maybe with some new textures that look more like rust, use and repairs. That would give (D) variants more individuality and would be nice for mod ships, too.

In theory, sure, but the damage decal rendering is probably the most performance-intensive rendering vanilla does, so I don't want to toss it around lightly. It also tends to obscure weapon mounts heavily, so it'd take a lot of tweaking. So, I don't know - if it came to that, I think I'd probably rather have separate (D) graphics for each ship. According to David, that wouldn't be super labor-intensive.
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Psiyon

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
  • Trippy
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2017, 02:55:49 PM »

@ Psiyon:
[overlay rendering stuff]
Derp somehow missed that.
Alex: Solid reasons, that stuff definitely takes a lot of tweaking to get right. Didn't know how performance intensive it was, though--that's a pretty good reason to not do it.
Logged

Sy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
    • View Profile
Re: Ship Recovery
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2017, 06:39:15 PM »

That's how it works in real life, isn't it? :) Customs, units of military blockades and such have to physically board vessels to inspect them, and if there's danger of resistance they have to go armed.
right, but IRL it's usually a bit more complicated than "give us your stuff or we will just obliterate your ship and everyone on it". at least i would think it is.

i'm not against the idea itself, just seems to me that if your target already surrendered under threat of immediate execution, you don't really need people with huge guns and power armor to secure the cargo. and because of said threat, the only real trap the enemy crew could set would be just triggering a self-destruction, sacrificing their own lives just to deal some damage. and if that happens, i don't think even the best power armor or the biggest gun is gonna keep you from getting blasted to bits. ^^


Debris fields post-battle are in the dev build. Currently considering ship recovery in relation to that - my feeling is it should be a more rare event than just being able to recover everything that got disabled. After all, chances are if it wasn't taken with the winning fleet, it was broken for salvage. So there'll probably be a small chance to find a recoverable ship.
hmm. maybe most fleets just wouldn't spend the required time to salvage? i think most mercantile and faction-military fleets wouldn't really bother with that, even assuming they'd have the necessary cargo space available to take a good amount of loot, as it would be a distraction more so than anything else from whatever they were doing. like getting to a resource-starved market in time to exploit a shortage of specific goods before everyone else does, or patrolling a system for threats to a nearby station, or continuing a carefully planned campaign into enemy territory to take advantage of a temporary weakness in hostile fleet movements.

Quote
I see what you mean, but the problem is, I think, that it would be the only layer of defense and would thus feel mandatory. If I were to do that, it'd probably be hullmod, officer skill, limited-global skill or some such - like it is for ships - so that nothing specific feels mandatory.
add more things, then!  ;D

but yeah, i can see how having only a single option might not be a good idea.

Quote
Good call; reduced its deployment/maintenance cost to 4 supplies. Hopefully that'll be enough.
i think that's the most important change, yes. 4 sounds good. :]

the strangely low PPT and disproportionally high credit cost (for those rare times someone might actually buy one) also seem quite out of place to me, although i doubt either of them is gonna make a real difference in whether it's worth using a few salvaged ones as industry player.

sidenote: i kinda stopped responding to all your individual responses to my points when i don't really have anything more to add than "thanks!" or "okay, fair enough", but i really appreciate you taking the time. :]


I'm curious, how many people think they will make heavy use of Reinforced Bulkheads?  Maybe I'm an outlier, but I don't see myself burdening my ships with the hullmod when I'm already intending to make heavy use of the salvaging system.  The enemy will be serving up plenty of hulks, I'll just take one of theirs!
i think i'm gonna be using it (or the other options that do the same thing) pretty often, but usually for rare ships and/or ones without a bunch of d-mods. keep in mind that the options for guaranteed ship recovery aren't actually tied to the industry combat playstyle or its skills, they just use the same ship recovery system. it's probably more useful for fleets that don't use a large number of disposable rust buckets.

i might also use it for some ships i just expect to die very quickly/often, even if they're low-quality and already riddled with d-mods. depends on how the final numbers work out, hard to say now where it would be cost effective.

Quote
Possible counterpoints... I don't recall how many OP Reinforced Bulkheads costs, if it's low enough it may well be worth the opportunity cost anyway.
5 OP on a frigate, assuming those numbers don't get adjusted before release.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 14