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[Tartiflette]

First, beam weapons tend towards the high-tech look, and the beam color tends to follow the color of the weapon sprite.

Given that Phase lance weapons aren't purple, Tac lasers weapons aren't solid green, Burst PD aren't blue etc, I'd say you still have quite some leeway there.

[Sy]

The HIL seems more recognizable based on the color it already has.

i honestly disagree. even if the color of HIL and GB aren't exactly the same, they are still quite similar. in a battle where you don't have the two different beams right next to each other for comparison, have zoomed out a bit, and aren't focusing your attention on one beam the entire time, it can be very difficult to tell which beam is hitting you without looking at the weapon itself.

and HIL and GB in particular are problematic because their effects (and consequently, the appropriate response to being hit by them) are pretty much the opposite of each other: GB is low flux, low threat kinetic damage that is only really useful for putting some continuous soft flux on shields and can usually be ignored entirely when it's just hitting armor. HIL on the other hand is high flux, high threat HE damage that absolutely needs to be blocked by shields and will rip through most armor within seconds.

i remember at least one time where i actually decided to ignore a GB rather than taking the soft flux damage to shields, and then got confused a few seconds later, wondering where the hell my armor went... since that time, i've made sure to always check the weapon itself when i'm hit with a blue beam (at least if i don't already know for certain which loadouts my enemies are using). ^^

try telling at a glance which of these is which:

Spoiler

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i find it quite difficult (without staring at them for several seconds). and that's despite having them all neatly lined up right next to each other for easy comparison, without anything else going on in the picture.


as Cycerin said, changing beam colors to make them more easily differentiable doesn't need to involve changing every beam to a color specific to its damage type. but giving the HIL a bright red or orange color would make it easily distinguishable at a glance.

for new players especially, even if they'd be able to distinguish GB and HIL, this could be helpful. after having fought a few battles against ships with GBs, they might not think about checking whether this beam that's currently hitting them is something completely different because it's got a slightly different shade of blue than the ones they've seen before. being hit with a large red/orange beam for the first time probably would tell them it might be a good idea to figure out where it is coming from and what it does.

also, i think it would actually just fit better with the high-dps HE concept; even if the color used isn't the exact same as ballistic HE projectiles, red/orange still feels more.. explodey, to me. ^^

[Cycerin]

If you don't want to change the color of the HIL, maybe you could use a different texture or something? Even after playing this game for as long as I have, I still cant distinguish the HIL and Graviton at a glance unless I can use my ears or see the firing ship. I think making the HIL a HE weapon makes it more important to eliminate any confusion. A change like that should come with some visual considerations.

[Tartiflette]

Anyway, the good thing about modding is that devs don't have to compromise their artistic vision to still give players different options:

[Megas]

Looking at the converging six-beam image, I could not tell the difference between Graviton Beam and Ion Beam until I unspoiled it to see the Paragon and its weapons.  I also could not (easily) tell the difference between High Intensity Laser and Burst PD Laser.

While on the subject of beam color, PD Laser and Tactical Laser should have matching colors - they do the same (75 energy) damage with no additional effect.  Only difference is range, flux cost (explained by range mismatch), turning speed, and PD-enabled.  Then green would be free for one of the problematic heavier beams (at least for those who are not colorblind...)

[Dri]

Yeah, you should probably give in to this one Alex. Check out Tartiflette's mod and think of NEW players, not veterans who are used to seeing the various beam weapons.

[Sy]

i certainly wouldn't mind seeing more changes to beam visuals, even if they're not color coded by damage type. but i think most changes beyond making HIL, GB and IB all easily distinguishable from each other would be just cosmetic. overhauling colors and/or shapes to better reflect a beam's function and power could make it more intuitive for new players, but ultimately it's not difficult to memorize what the different beams do, as long as functionally very different beams aren't very similar visually.

[Schwartz]

Beams don't all have to be unique and far-apart on the spectrum. They just have to be unique and far-apart enough that I won't mistake a HIL for a bloody Graviton Beam anymore. I'd suggest making HIL and Tach Lance a little thicker and more glowy than the others. HIL could even be a clean white. The big ones could also have a more menacing hum. I like the suggestion to make ion weapons cyan or turquoise.

Color-coding damage types is stupid. It shouldn't happen for beams, and it could be removed for kinetic projectiles as far as I'm concerned. You can tell these apart by other means such as patterning, sound, travel distance, speed. Beams are all cut from the same cloth, which makes this difficult.

[Megas]

Another thing, I always play at max zoom (and I would zoom out even more if possible).  I would definitely not see any subtle wisps or flames as seen in the OP's zoomed-in image, especially while fighting.

[xenoargh]

I completely agree with the OP.

Thoughts:

1.  Divide between low-range PD beams and the Tac laser; this is already really clear.

2.  The Graviton Beam and Ion Beam are too similar to each other and to the HIL.  I'd make the Graviton Beam yellow-ish, Ion Beam more towards green, and differentiate the textures.

3.  It's to bad the Phase Beam has gotten nerfed into being less-than-useful, or we could compare with the Tachyon Lance and say that it needs specific differentiation.  I like the Tachyon Lance's look but the Phase Beam should be the reddest of the Beams, imo, and thicker, to indicate it's an alpha-strike special with a very short range.

4.  The two Pulse PD lasers are OK.  However, I'd really like the Large-mount version to continue the theme (and maybe, someday, worth using for something or other).

5.  The Mining Laser continues to be both visually undifferentiated and almost completely useless without Skills to boost it and make it cost less.

[Megas]

3.  It's to bad the Phase Beam has gotten nerfed into being less-than-useful...

I can agree with this.  Without EMP, it has no niche that non-beam weapons cannot do better without Advanced Optics.  It does not alpha strike as well as a blaster because the attacker needs to sustain the beam for a second (and take return fire), while blaster users can pop off a shot and disengage immediately.  Phase Beam's only niche is 800 range assault weapon if attacker has Advanced Optics, and completely useless otherwise.

Re: Mining Laser
Yes, it is bad, but at least you get what you pay for.  If anything, Mining Laser and LR PD Laser are too similar in function, but Mining Laser laser is cheap, and LR PD Laser is expensive.

[ChaseBears]

*purses lips*

If flux still gave an energy weapon damage bonus, graphical or color variations would be an interesting way to show it.

Maybe room for color variations for damage bonuses, say a laser weapon that gains in power the longer its fired, or from sources like High Energy Focus.

[xenoargh]

Balance stuff:

Spoiler

My issue with the Mining Laser and the LRPD is that neither really gets the job done for costs.  The Mining Laser should be a last-ditch close-in PD that works if it can bear; it's not good in that role as it simply doesn't have high-enough DPS or range or turn-speed, until Skills make it somewhat more useful. 

LRPD, with Advanced Optics and Skill bonuses, becomes vaguely useful, but it's still not really attractive vs. either using a pulsed PD (if we want missiles to actually die) or PD Laser.  It simply needs to be equivalent or better than the PD Laser in every way but range to be worth the OPs, frankly; the extra range means very little if it can't get the job done.

The Phase Beam had an interesting niche role until it got nerfed.  I'm really not in favor of swinging the nerf-hammer every time something is vaguely useful; unlike the Heavy Blaster, it still dealt Soft Flux and requires staying in range, so it's not even remotely equivalent and needs to do quite a lot more damage to be useful.

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Anyhow, these are side issues; I'm mainly here to agree with the OP that aesthetics < gameplay function, when it comes to the look of the beams; either that, or differentiate as suggested before, by making the Beam origins, etc., more fundamentally different visually.

[Megas]

@ xenoargh: (Balance stuff)

Spoiler

I do not expect Mining Laser to do much given its OP cost.  It is barely useful enough to be viable.  Mining laser can zap Swarmers, and it zaps a few others given enough backpedalling.  Light Mortar is similarly underpowered, but for the assault role.  Like Mining Laser, Light Mortar is so underpowered that it is almost not worth mounting, but Lasher can use light mortar with some effect thanks to the ammo feeder special.  I almost never use Mining Laser or Light Mortar because both are too underpowered for comfort.  But both of them are not so bad that mounting them is worse than leaving mount empty and saving OP, although they are close.)

I agree with LR PD Laser, but for a different reason.  Flux cost is too high (LR PD costs 100 per second; compare to tac lasers' 75 per second).  Some ships already have trouble supporting tac laser, but LR PD is so high that I frequently vent spam them when I try to use LR PD.  Using LR PD is like using Ion Beam, but without the latter's power.  If LR PD Laser had lower flux costs, it could be a poor-man's/cheap Tac Laser plus hullmods substitute.  As it is, using LR PD simply overheats ships.

I would be happy if Phase Laser got more base range.  It used to have 700 range as a continuous beam.  With 600 range, it is simply a pulse laser knockoff that hits for soft flux instead of hard flux - lame.

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[Sy]

more balance stuff:

Spoiler

LRPD, with Advanced Optics and Skill bonuses, becomes vaguely useful, but it's still not really attractive vs. either using a pulsed PD (if we want missiles to actually die) or PD Laser.  It simply needs to be equivalent or better than the PD Laser in every way but range to be worth the OPs, frankly; the extra range means very little if it can't get the job done.

LRPD isn't meant to be equally good as normal PD or Burst PD. it's meant to become useful by mounting it on a larger number of ships or on dedicated PD support ships, so that those ships can partially cover each other, producing a crossfire of LRPD beams.

that said, i'm also not a fan of LRPD. it will get faster turret turn speed in 0.8, but i don't think that will be enough for me to use it. i'm fine with higher OP cost and lower dps, but the much higher flux cost kinda kills it. if i do want long-range PD, i'd rather just stick to Tac Lasers and IPDAI, especially on PD support ships. costs yet more OP and isn't great for catching Salamanders, but has higher range, higher dps, lower flux, and can better deal with swarms of small missiles by hitting several of them at once.

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