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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap  (Read 5307 times)

awpmax

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RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« on: December 20, 2016, 08:50:14 AM »

I generally like non-mmo games like the Starsector that have the possibility to be (or make yourself through leveling) The Badass Main Character, not some other non-AI controlled but otherways absolutely miscellaneous entity that thrives to survive and reach some goal. I like that AI captains being inferior to the allmighty insert_your_nickname_here, I like the idea of being about 50 levels above AI level cap, like some damn demigod, the ship that is piloted by the Mighty Leader is faster, stronger, gets more ordnance, guns/range/damage/fire rate, get yourself a Hyperion or Paragon, guns blazing, go slaughter the entire enemy convoy, ending unscratched, say "I'm not impressed Hegemony/Tri-tachyon/whatever"
Hope you can see what i mean.

And now I see: here you go, have this level cap, oh, AND it is dangerous to go alone, take this (gives me the damaged Lasher), also your skills will be less OP, go get some more Lashers if you want to fight someone besides pirate faction. Also your solo Paragon will have n% less speed and range.

But seriously, i believe that those overhaul will make game better, or at least more of what Dev see it to be, the problem is I think there should be a chance to have something for those who like the game as it is now.

TL;DR
Could you just add a little option to have not mod but just ingame option
-set level cap (default(40) - custom - infinite)
-set the impact of electronic warfare and maneuvers (n% weaker - default)
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Alex

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2016, 08:58:57 AM »

Hi! Just a quick reply here:

Could you just add a little option to have not mod but just ingame option
-set level cap (default(40) - custom - infinite)

The reason I don't want to do that is having a setting in-game implies that the game is balanced with the full option range in mind. I don't want to imply that here - you're free to make the tweak, but if something doesn't work/gets weird in the endgame/etc, that's on you and not on me, if that makes sense.


-set the impact of electronic warfare and maneuvers (n% weaker - default)

Similar reasoning here, but also: both CM and EW, combined with battle objectives, generally have a smaller effect than just the current objectives. They're not particularly significant, and so it'd be strange to single them out for tweaking. It'd be on the level of having sliders for damage dealt against shields, base ship armor values, and literally hundreds of other things in the same significance range.
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Spoorthuzad

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2016, 09:32:29 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like this is worth mentioning.
When you do reach the level cap it doesn't mean you won't get any more character points. So it doesn't mean you won't advance character wise.

You probabbly earn them in the future by doing missions, trading or other activities.
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Alex

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2016, 09:59:39 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like this is worth mentioning.
When you do reach the level cap it doesn't mean you won't get any more character points. So it doesn't mean you won't advance character wise.

In terms of the 0.8a release, it probably does mean that. What I was talking about in the blog post thread is more hypothetical stuff that sounds like it would work well with the campaign arc, but nothing concrete.
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awpmax

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2016, 10:14:56 AM »

Similar reasoning here, but also: both CM and EW, combined with battle objectives, generally have a smaller effect than just the current objectives. They're not particularly significant, and so it'd be strange to single them out for tweaking. It'd be on the level of having sliders for damage dealt against shields, base ship armor values, and literally hundreds of other things in the same significance range.

Nice to have such quick reply.
Does it mean "mods will fix this" in terms of professional modders or fixing it myself by changing it in /starsector-core, or do you plan to have it implanted in some sort of additional menu? I mean those sliders, this sounds VERY nice if I got you right.
I dont usually read the forum, only the blog, so sorry in advance if it was clarified somewhere.
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Alex

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2016, 10:29:55 AM »

Does it mean "mods will fix this" in terms of professional modders or fixing it myself by changing it in /starsector-core, or do you plan to have it implanted in some sort of additional menu? I mean those sliders, this sounds VERY nice if I got you right.
I dont usually read the forum, only the blog, so sorry in advance if it was clarified somewhere.

Ha, no - what I mean is it would be rather absurd to put these kinds of things into a player-facing configuration screen :) Imagine a config screen with several hundred values, most of which you don't even know what they mean. I could see a modding tool exposing stuff like that, but that's another matter entirely.

Basically, a large part of making the game is finding a combination of these kinds of values that works well together. Unless a value is specifically meant to be adjusted by the player as a setting, chances are that adjusting it would have all sorts of unexpected consequences throughout the game. It makes no sense to expose values like that to the player to configure.

(Also, I'd definitely say "change" rather than "fix", as "fix" implies something is bugged rather than working as intended.)
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awpmax

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2016, 10:55:48 AM »

It is great you consider the modding tool in your game, those .csv and other /starsector-core files are already very user-friendly, which is great IMO, but the tool from a developer would add much more to the game fun/replayability values.  :)

Not a mod-maker myself, still I very much appreciate the fact I can relatively easy get to the ship/weatpon/etc. data to maybe tweak a little (don't call it cheating, its tweaking) something.

Didn't mean something offensive by "mods will fix this", it's just a common idiom, don't take it seriously. The game in this current state can't even be compared to other subjects of "mods will fix this" state.

It is awesome already, waiting impatiently for new tweaks and changes.
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Alex

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2016, 11:08:01 AM »

Not a mod-maker myself, still I very much appreciate the fact I can relatively easy get to the ship/weatpon/etc. data to maybe tweak a little (don't call it cheating, its tweaking) something.

Yeah, definitely not cheating! I do it myself in a lot of games I play (elder scrolls games come to mind), it's good fun.

Didn't mean something offensive by "mods will fix this", it's just a common idiom, don't take it seriously. The game in this current state can't even be compared to other subjects of "mods will fix this" state.

Sorry if that came across as defensive - wasn't offended, guess it's just more of a pet peeve of mine :)

It is awesome already, waiting impatiently for new tweaks and changes.

Thank you!
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2016, 01:36:59 PM »

Yeah, one thing that I LOVE about SS is there no need to de-encrypt/ decompress/do whatever to the files in order to edit them, all you need is a spreadsheet program and notepad/ notepad++. Thanks Alex!

Question though: If I wanted to add back in certain skills in my personal mod, would it be possible to just copy the bulk of the file that I want and copy a current skill before replacing the guts of it with the skill I want to add back in?
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Alex

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Re: RE Skill Overhaul & Level Cap
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2016, 02:07:37 PM »

Question though: If I wanted to add back in certain skills in my personal mod, would it be possible to just copy the bulk of the file that I want and copy a current skill before replacing the guts of it with the skill I want to add back in?

More or less. I mean, you'll need to make sure the skill effects are in the mod, etc, so it'll probably involve something like 5-6 files total - one .skill file, and then the effects.
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